Goldfish 1.3.3

[Nidh]

Like I said, in my experience it's not worth turning to use all three guns and has never been in all my time flying Goldfish. So I respectfully disagree. It uses up a lot of time that could be better spent doing other things, such as disabling the other enemy ship or sustained fire with the right-side gun (granted it's reload is relatively short).

[Sammy B. T.]

While not completely forward facing, I think something like a 15-20 degree tilt forward on the side guns would boost the popularity and viability of the goldfish. One of the changes that helped make the spire viable was when they tilted the top right gun forwards. Perhaps the Goldfish needs that intention. You would still largely need to do a wobble play, however, it would be much more practical.

[Thomas]

Overall it's a bit of a trickier ship. I'm actually not for it being one of the beginner ships due to the single front mounted gun. Often they'll stick a hwacha or flak on it, and only use that gun without making use of the side guns.

Personally I find the side guns very important, the game promotes weapon synergy. Using different damage types (such as piercing/explosive) is always more effective than a single damage type alone. For instance just using a hwacha will never kill an enemy. Most of the damage will be soaked up in the armor and components, and then it's a long reload while they fix everything. You can keep them more or less disabled, but it's going to be a slow match.


So using a side weapon (such as a gatling gun) before unleashing your hwacha or even flak cannon can massively improve performance.

Longitudinal Speed: 40.11 m/s (Squid is at 47 m/s, pyra is at 32 m/s)
Longitudinal Acceleration: 3.5 m/s² (squid is at 5.5, junker is at 4.3, mobula is 4.25, spire is at 3)
Turn Speed: 13.99 degrees/s (squid is 18.95, junker is 16.18, mobula is 14.02, spire is 11.99 )
Turn Acceleration: 7.99 degress/s² (squid is 20, junker is 15.24, spire is 15.02, pyra is 6.25)
Mass: 150 tonnes (Galleon is 320, pyra is 200, spire is 150, junker is 125)
Lift force: 487500 Newtons (Mobula is 900k, Galleon is 720k, Spire is 562.5k, Pyra is 550k, Squid is 460k)
Vertical Speed: 16.99 m/s (Junker is 17.06, Galleon is 17.01, Mobula is 17.01, Squid is 17, Spire is 17, Pyra is 16.97)
Vertical Acceleration: 3.25 m/s² (Mobula is 7.5, Squid is 4, Spire is 3.75, Junker is 3)

Armor: 400 (Squid is 230, Spire is 400, Mobula is 600)
Health: 1100 (Galleon is 1400, Squid is 850, Spire is 750)



I usually like to consider the goldfish to be nimble, but that's not really the case. It's about average all around according to it's stats. The second fastest ship but not the best at accelerating, turning, changing altitude. Armor and HP it's pretty similar to the squid, just tougher (low armor, high HP). It's a good ramming ship, but only because that front gun will soak up most of the impact before the ship starts taking damage.



It can certainly be used well, but it does lack the killing power most other ships have due to the gun placements. Some of the heavy guns are difficult to use on it, because they're not designed to be used alone. You could stick a lumberjack on it, but if your goal is to snipe, you might as well use a galleon or spire.

You could try a flak, but it's going to take a day and a half to get their armor down before you start doing real damage (again, try a galleon or spire).

 A hwacha is a good choice, since you can get up close and personal, and make good use of those side guns during the long reload. A galleon has a more difficult time chasing, but can often kill a lot faster with it's other weapons combined with a hwacha, where a spire can wreck with all it's light guns and a hwacha, but usually doesn't want to be that close.

A carronade is (in my opinion) one of the best guns for the goldfish. Since it's front mounted, it's a lot easy to chase and keep on them, where on a bulky galleon they're a bit harder to follow (but then again, most ships disintegrate when they're in carronade range of the galleon). And again, spires tend not to want to be that close. The average maneuverability and durability of the goldfish allow it to take the punches while it closes the distance and keep hitting while it stays on them. The single front gun and low reload time means your engineers can focus on fixing and not need to jump on guns frequently (although using a side mounted mortar, flamethrower, or even mine launcher (etc) can massively decrease the time to kill).




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What would I change if anything?
I think it'd be nice for the ship to be a little more maneuverable. Having more HP is nice, but it's not going to help when you can't avoid the damage and your armor is constantly popping. It only has 3 guns, two of which can be used at most, and only one being used most of the time. The components are pretty spread out, making it hard on your engineers, even though they're not as busy shooting (which can be a problem if you need them to get to the gun fast. It's a bigger ship than it seems.)

[HamsterIV]

The goldfish is a great newbie ship, its layout is pretty strait forward and it goes well with the standard newbie play style of: fly strait at them shooting, bounce off a ram, turn back on target and repeat. It has a very good turn rate and acceleration, which works well for pilots who haven't got the hang of ship maneuvering. Also since it can only point one gun at a target newbie engineers can devote more of their attention to fixing stuff.

Unfortunately the things that make the goldfish excellent in as a trainer, make it less useful in higher level play.

[Thomas]

I wouldn't say it's very good at turning or accelerating (it's rated 4th turning speed, turning acceleration, and even longitudinal acceleration).

The ships has really spread out components, making it just shy of impossible to coordinate the crew into different roles. Where the pyra and junker are a little easier to separate out naturally. The pyra has all the low deck components so easy to reach, while the other engi often grabs a gun and watches the balloon. The junker has the top engines, balloon, and side guns close, while the bottom engine, hull, and other guns are close.

For the goldfish, the top engine and balloon are kind of close, but it's a bit of a jog. The lower engines and hull are even further. Taking care of all the components is a lot of running.


Then there's guns. Newer players will focus on using only one at a time, sometimes it's the front gun, and sometimes they'll just try to circle their enemy with the side gun. The time to kill is extremely long, and very often doesn't happen. While the pyra and junker can get multiple guns on a target, and since they're presets, they work together well to minimize the time to kill.

Just go and watch the youtubers who decided to use a goldfish. They did a very nice job of representing new players and how they try to use the goldfish right off the bat.


Personally I feel it takes some more experience, and at least a little knowledge of weapon and damage types before someone should use the goldfish. They'd have an easier time with a squid (and even that is pretty rough on the engineers).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTxhpMs2_gE

[Spud Nick]

We don't see the Goldfish much in competitive play. Is that because all the other ships can do what the Goldfish does better?  Is it because the front gun can be taking down so easily making the ship next to useless? Or is it simply that the Goldfish can not provide what a team needs.

[Crafeksterty]

It fulfills mostly as a supportive, disruptive role.

Its the ship that rams a ship that is hurting you teamate. It is quick, it can recover from turns very quickly. Disrupting an enemy to stop him from shooting an ally. Goldfish is the best one out there for that. Just think about how quick the goldfish really recovers from most type of situations.

Add with a good Heavy weapon, you have a playstyle, or use of the goldfish in its own. This is where he is disruptive with its heavy carronade and Hwacha. With pheonix claw, you can easily play with the side guns. I honestly dont know why you would comment on the side gns being too much of a hasstle to use.  Use them, dont put a flimsy mortar or anything... i mean you can.  You dont need an engineer to use them, the gunner can run and he should. Place something that will stick. Flamer, Mines, Artemis, Banshee,  carronade. Something quick and simple. With your weapons in mind, you can create a 1v1 situation for your ally.

With Lumberjack, you can outright suprise ships. Goldfish is very quick and with agility. It can appier from flanking positions in no time.
The goldfish, with tactical tought involved downright can outplay a spire. Or a galleon. You may not kill as well, but you are creating another 1v1 situation or 1v helpless2.

Im just giving out ideas. Whenever im on a goldfish, i feel utterly helpless alone. No matter what gun combination. But with an ally, i seek to hold one down. And make my ally the hero he is. And the goldfish is the best one to do that.
If you want to be a good goldfish, think of it in that way. The sidekick.

[Omniraptor]

The question is, why would you want a hero and a sidekick when you can have two heroes?

[HamsterIV]

The question is, why would you want a hero and a sidekick when you can have two heroes?

Because sometimes the hero is Don Quixote and he needs a side kick to keep him from getting himself killed. If I am stuck with a newbie team mate I take a support build. It is better to let "the hero" get some kills, than show how awesome I am at carrying a team. However my support build of choice is the 2x merc Pyramidion. Newbies gravitate towards the flashy explosive weapons so they need someone to strip the hull armor.

[Spud Nick]

It fulfills mostly as a supportive, disruptive role.

Its the ship that rams a ship that is hurting you teamate. It is quick, it can recover from turns very quickly. Disrupting an enemy to stop him from shooting an ally. Goldfish is the best one out there for that. Just think about how quick the goldfish really recovers from most type of situations.

Add with a good Heavy weapon, you have a playstyle, or use of the goldfish in its own. This is where he is disruptive with its heavy carronade and Hwacha. With pheonix claw, you can easily play with the side guns. I honestly dont know why you would comment on the side gns being too much of a hasstle to use.  Use them, dont put a flimsy mortar or anything... i mean you can.  You dont need an engineer to use them, the gunner can run and he should. Place something that will stick. Flamer, Mines, Artemis, Banshee,  carronade. Something quick and simple. With your weapons in mind, you can create a 1v1 situation for your ally.

With Lumberjack, you can outright suprise ships. Goldfish is very quick and with agility. It can appier from flanking positions in no time.
The goldfish, with tactical tought involved downright can outplay a spire. Or a galleon. You may not kill as well, but you are creating another 1v1 situation or 1v helpless2.

Im just giving out ideas. Whenever im on a goldfish, i feel utterly helpless alone. No matter what gun combination. But with an ally, i seek to hold one down. And make my ally the hero he is. And the goldfish is the best one to do that.
If you want to be a good goldfish, think of it in that way. The sidekick.

Better suited for 1v1 combat, Fills a support role, designed for disabling. I can see why most teams don't bring one. Better to force a 2v1 engagement and focus on raw killing power than to bring a Goldfish and disable some parts.

[Crafeksterty]

Many times have  i been on matches with 2 ships really good at killing. But then one of us gets disabled.

Most killer weapons that dont support much need another gun to compliment the other out and do a combo. Gat mort is a good example.
Then you have weapons that can do stuff alone. Like Carronade, Flamer, Mines etc.

How the guns placed on the goldfish makes it so that every gun is some sort of support. A gattling on the side can be that extra armor braker for your teamate.
The flamer will not almost ever be complimented with another gun on a goldfish.

That is why the goldfish is as said, very full of agility. How the ship flies makes using guns much easier. It recovers quicker than other ships and lasts longer than other ships for it to be helped, and come back to help quicker.


Now have that in mind, suddenly. 2 Killing ships are up against 1 killing and one support. The support disables one killing. The supports ally fights with the other killing. If the support is focused by the un-disabled killing ship, he will survive it and the ally killing ship will have no trouble killing THAT. But if Both from the start focus the support ship, the ally killing ship from the get go will have an open approach against one of the killing ship. The goldfish support ship is going to get damaged, but ultimately he will disable one and Chute/Hydro/Kyrosine away from fire because of its survivability.

Easier said than done. Just talking about the goldfish like this makes me wanna go back to it.

[Spud Nick]

You could just disable the front gun on the Goldfish and focus on his friend. It seems like most of the tactics that involve the Goldfish relies on him disabling one ship so you can focus down the other. That or force a 1v1 situation where  the Goldfish can lock down a single ship and kill it.

[Captain Smollett]

Remember when everyone thought the carronade was op and people regularly stomped in pubs with the Goldfish?

Currently artemis are meta and slightly overpowered, leaving many to look past the goldfish as a ship choice.  Also there are few really good close range heavy weapon options for the goldfish.

Artemis changes are currently being considered, the only thing left that we really need is a new close range high powered heavy weapon. 

[Spud Nick]

Anybody else notice that the Spire and the Goldfish have the same amount of armor? I find this a little odd seeing how the Spire is designed to be a glass cannon. Do you guys think the Goldfish should have more armor than the spire?

[macmacnick]

The spire is a glass cannon — the hull goes down quickly, and then it dies quickly due to its smaller permahull pool, especially with the balloon being popped, whereas the goldie can stand that for a while, and usually bounces more when its hull and balloon are down and it hits the ground.