Author Topic: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count  (Read 9024 times)

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 09:27:16 pm »
Has anybody left a match because the captain/other captain had a high leave count?

Offline Van Manfred

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2013, 10:41:36 pm »
Arrggh it happened again. Sorry for my team mates of fortunes. We were doing extremely well when I started disconnecting then reconnecting like crazy, being completely useless on the ship all the while, from the middle of the game up until its shady end (I couldn't even see the score). I also failed to reconnect short of leaving Steam, and now as a result I've got another Leave, for an average of about 1 leave per three games, now.

I look like a  :-X ing rat now. "No, really, these are connection problems!". "Yeah, sure".

I think I'm going to stop playing for a while. I'm a bit peeved right now.

Offline The Djinn

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2013, 11:39:00 pm »
I look like a  :-X ing rat now. "No, really, these are connection problems!". "Yeah, sure".

I think I'm going to stop playing for a while. I'm a bit peeved right now.

For what it's worth, I can't think of a SINGLE time I've run into a captain or crew who actually checked a player's number of leaves.

Offline treseritops

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2013, 12:06:18 am »
For what it's worth it seems like the leave count is doing its job, even in your case.

It tells us either you rage quit, have a weird internet connection, get bored, or anything.

Does that really matter and is it fair to you? Yes and no. :/ If you were on my ship and you said that there was a 50/50 chance you randomly disconnect (even if you're making it back in most of the time) I'm definitely not going to want you as the main engi or on hull. In that sense the leave count has done its job, it just isn't necessarily fair to you as a gamer. I think overall it is more fair to the crew.

Offline geggis

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2013, 04:38:11 am »
That's a fair point treseri.

For the record, I didn't even know there was a leave counter and looking back there's been plenty of games I've left for various reasons from having to dash unexpectedly to captains and crew dicking about and not cooperating.

If this is really discriminatory to people who started playing after the last patch muse could always calculate leave percentage out of the last 100 games the player was in. Thus allowing serial leavers to redeem themselves by playing 100 games without abandoning their comrades.

This seems like a pretty solid idea to me.

Offline Van Manfred

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2013, 08:40:53 am »
For what it's worth it seems like the leave count is doing its job, even in your case.

It tells us either you rage quit, have a weird internet connection, get bored, or anything.

Does that really matter and is it fair to you? Yes and no. :/ If you were on my ship and you said that there was a 50/50 chance you randomly disconnect (even if you're making it back in most of the time) I'm definitely not going to want you as the main engi or on hull. In that sense the leave count has done its job, it just isn't necessarily fair to you as a gamer. I think overall it is more fair to the crew.

As much as I hate to admit, that post made some kind of sense.

However, like many here said, few people look at the profiles, and more importantly; constant re-connecting, in the hope of maintening a low Leave Count, forces a spectator on the rest of the ship, which founds itself in crisis.

Quote
This seems like a pretty solid idea to me.

In fact, that's a terrible idea. Playing just to normalize the Leave Count? One has got to have a solid connection before attempting that, or else he could end up with something like one leave every three games.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:43:31 am by Van Manfred »

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2013, 09:07:07 am »
I don't know anything about coding, but shouldn't it be possible to have the leave count only register when a player clicks abandon match themselves?

Offline geggis

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2013, 09:47:42 am »
[...] One has got to have a solid connection before attempting that [...]

One would assume you'd have a solid connection to play an online multiplayer game to begin with. And if you haven't, I think that's an important problem to address before anything else, whether it's on your end or the developers'.

As for the leave counter only factoring in players who click Abandon Match: I'm sure people will find ways of cutting off the connection or killing the match without having to hit that button to preserve their count. You could implement something that factored in not just quitting/connection dropping/crashing, but also if a player joins a different game while the previous one they were in is still running. That could work.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2013, 11:24:58 am »
I think Leave count is only incremented if you are not at the end of a game that you started. Leaving in the middle of the game so long as you return before the end is not an issue. I leave games and come back all the time, usually when I discover I brought the wrong engineering tools or ammo. My leave count is sitting at 2, and I have not ran across anyone who thinks ill of me because of it.

Offline Van Manfred

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2013, 12:36:07 pm »
I think Leave count is only incremented if you are not at the end of a game that you started. Leaving in the middle of the game so long as you return before the end is not an issue. I leave games and come back all the time, usually when I discover I brought the wrong engineering tools or ammo. My leave count is sitting at 2, and I have not ran across anyone who thinks ill of me because of it.

As long as you can re-connect in time for the end game, you won't get a Leave, from what I experienced.
One would assume you'd have a solid connection to play an online multiplayer game to begin with. And if you haven't, I think that's an important problem to address before anything else, whether it's on your end or the developers'.

As for the leave counter only factoring in players who click Abandon Match: I'm sure people will find ways of cutting off the connection or killing the match without having to hit that button to preserve their count. You could implement something that factored in not just quitting/connection dropping/crashing, but also if a player joins a different game while the previous one they were in is still running. That could work.

I wouldn't mind that the rest of my team knew I had a bad connection - then they would know the risks are accidental, and not "convenient". But the engine doesn't make the difference.

IMO, most players who want to leave will do so by using the in-game buttons. And, anyway, even if a few get throught by trickery, IMO it is preferable to having a few earnest but badly connected types passing as rats.

Offline Andika

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2013, 01:13:31 pm »
We were doing extremely well when I started disconnecting then reconnecting like crazy, being completely useless on the ship all the while, from the middle of the game up until its shady end (I couldn't even see the score).

What do you mean "useless"?? It is quite possible to participate in matches with terrible lag or connection issues. In the next terribly laggy scene you can witness me executing a cunning mission assigned by my captain when he told me to "go for the point".  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9X7vRUEH8A

Also, to hit the serious tone, I am still not a fan of the leave count, even though I understand its intention. My biggest problem is the fact that those who leave matches intentionally as rage quitters/trolls do that exactly because they do not give a **** about the community or other players, so I don't think for them it would matter a lot to have a bunch of left games displayed on their profile. Especially since, as many of you pointed it out, most of us don't care to check profiles anyway, so they can easily get away with those matches without anyone noticing that they have a potential quitter on their ships. And, even if we do recognize their left games, what can we do about it if they refuse to leave our ship/lobby? We can find another match, and they will play/ragequit/abandon happily on wherever they are. They bought the game, it's theirs, and as far as I know, nobody can be banned for quitting matches every now and then.

It is always those who do care about the community who will find those left games (regardless of the reason of leaving) embarrasing. My counter says 0 so far, but I did leave several matches before the patch, either due to connection issues, or because I miscalculated the time of a match and had to leave for work, life etc. It happens to everyone, and most people usualyl understand that this is a part of online gaming. Also, what Van Manfred says: the counter makes no difference between different types of leaving, which is fine in the sense that the result of those leavings was the same, but it does not help honest people with bad connections explain themselves in lobbies.

Also, a good net connection would be fine when one wants to play something like this, and it is the players' responsibility to check system requirements, etc. to make sure that they will be able to play and enjoy the game, especially if their net connection affects other people's gameplay as well.

But, which of the three would you guys prefer on your ships: a, a constantly reconnecting player trying hard not to earn a left game on the counter and "going for points" during the whole match :P like I did in the video; b, a "former" quitter now staying afk on your ship to avoid getting a left game on the profile, who is watching/playing something else on the net in another window (not as if I wanted to suggest deconstructive ideas...); c, or an AI who comes when a player leaves your ship and at least helps with repairs. The leave count, in a way, encourages the first two.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 01:15:16 pm by Andika »

Offline Gambrill

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2013, 01:21:40 pm »
I have a leave count of one which im disheartened by as it was when the electricity ran out in my house and was left in the dark (with a hormonal and pregnant lady) xD what if there were ways to Appeal these numbers? :) i'd be all for it xD

Offline Van Manfred

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2013, 03:07:23 pm »
Great post, Andika - every part of it, althought the final one was the point I was trying to express.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 03:13:28 pm by Van Manfred »

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2013, 04:16:19 pm »
I think the behavior this feature is trying to inhibit is players quitting when it becomes obvious they are going to loose the match in order to join a new match faster. This occurs the most when a new captain tries an experimental ship build and it ends up failing spectacularly on the first encounter. In order to figure out the meta they want to exit the game and try a new build as soon as possible. The leave count hopefully will shame this behavior or allow other players to avoid a captain who does this.

Perhaps a better way to shame this behavior is to put some sort of flag over a user in a lobby indicating there is an active game which he left. Sort of a public indicator of the "Resume Match" flag.

Offline Zenark

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Re: Please, Remove Profle's Leave Count
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2013, 05:50:28 pm »
I keep forgetting there's a leave counter... It's not like it directly affects gameplay, and I've never heard it mentioned in-game.

Don't worry about the count, try and fix the reasons you're crashing in the first place. The quit counter should not even be a concern to you. Relax dude, no one will condemn you <3