Teaching & Citizenship Achievements: The Problem of a Small Community

[The Djinn]

I'd like to make a recommendation that, in the same way that the Tutorial achievements count progress towards ALL achievements, we revise the Teaching & Citizenship Achievements to do the same (i.e. Commendations received or goals accomplished stack towards the closest achievement that requires that commendation/goal).

Since a Commendation can only be given once, Commendations received once an achievement Commendation cap has been reached (but not before the achievement has been entirely accomplished) are effectively gone. Given the small community, this has the potential to actually lock people who have been repeatedly getting Commendations from achieving the higher level Citizenship and/or Teaching achievements.

For instance: I have 160 Commendations to get, all told, in Citizenship. But to pass level 10 I have to have Career Shadowing, which requires 40 more Commendations. This wouldn't be an issue in a game like League of Legends, for example, where there are enough players that this is definitely doable. But I find that I usually end up flying in games with captains/crew I've played with before, as this is a fairly small community, which means that every Commendation "lost" (i.e. gained when there is no Commendation progress left on an achievement) is one that I cannot get later when I need the progress.

It's not a major point, but I really don't like seeing all these Commendations going into the giant Commendation Void.

Thoughts? Concerns? Opinions?

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Wait till you reach the ones where you have to sit for 240 mins in Sandbox with 1-3s. I've given up on ever completing those or the rest of teaching. My comms are at the same point. They are all pointless to me, can't use them to add to the rest of the achievements so for about a few months they've just been ending up being wasted. I used to give out comms like candy but now I just don't bother unless someone does something actually worthy of one. So, all lowbies flying spires and ramming with them = no comm. Gunner captains = no comm. Various things like that.

[treseritops]

Yeah I gave up on the sandbox one. I was cruising through the achievements and then got to that one. I don't see myself ever possibly completing that. How many level 1-3 players would possibly see the benefit of practicing in sandbox? Honestly I have yet to really find a reason to use for it.

At a time when it seems more common to see lower level players readying up and asking to ready up in under 10sec of lobby time I don't see how anyone can get them into a sandbox.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Sandbox is useful for personal usage. If you are testing out a new gun/etc, spending time with it in the box before actual combat is helpful. Pilots wanting to know each ship should spend some time on it in the box. Learn all the firing angles and the handling. What I did with Squid. Went from hating it to loving it part thanks to sandbox being there so I could really get used to the handling. Then of course Muse nerfed it to hell and we have the abomination that it is now.

No Muse I haven't forgotten. I'm still expecting you guys to FIX THE SQUID!!

Really more lowbie players should spend time in it between matches if they want to get good. Learning in combat is good, taking that and combining it with time spent learning in sandbox = mastering.

[N-Sunderland]

I make great use of Sandbox for testing various engineering techniques (like the buff trick that needs to be fixed so badly). That's where I developed my Squid engine repair circuit (which makes Squid engineering way more fluid, and way more fun).

[Twinkie D-Lite]

Ive taken a few new guys into the sandbox myself. I dont stay longer than 10 minutes if that . Its never a good idea to try to explain the entire game, you can learn faster in a match. But I can see how 240 min will take forever, and the one after that isnt any easier.

[GeoRmr]

I make great use of Sandbox for testing various engineering techniques (like the buff trick that needs to be fixed so badly). That's where I developed my Squid engine repair circuit (which makes Squid engineering way more fluid, and way more fun).

Indeed, the problem I feel with this and the other achievements is that you must be in sandbox with players below a certain level. Whenever I've used sandbox, it has been to practice MLG PRO NAVAL FORMATION META STRATEGY attack angles on different weapons and some minor manoeuvres with higher level crews.

(sand box is lacking at the moment with only one map and one ship, it could do with allowing multiple ships, multiple maps, and the ability to spawn ship models in place of the target dummy's.)

New low level players tend to learn everything they need from the tutorial (we wish... allot of them, myself included, tend to go straight into pub matches with no idea of what to do) then jump into the game and level up. New players want to actually play the game not just sit in sandbox. the main benefit of sand box for teaching inexperienced players occurs when they have already gained a few hours legit game play, by which point they usually have levelled up. The most valuable experience comes from actually playing the matches.

EDIT: In addition, I feel that the time requirement for you to spend in sandbox is unrealistically and unnecessarily high, everything a player needs to gain from a "lesson" in sandbox can be completed within 20 minutes - 40 tops.

[treseritops]

I agree completely. I think most players would agree that getting a lower level player into the sandbox for 20min would be a monumental achievement.

And as for the letting any level go in- I think that leaves it too open to abuse. (I suppose it always is) If another player and I both need that we could throw our avatar's in the sandbox together, come back in a few hours after work, etc. and we'd have it set! There will never be a perfect way to stop achievement abuse but oh well.

[shadowsteel]

I agree with OP about wasted commendations.

I think a viable solution would be to have an option to disable incoming commendations. Kinda like an EXP disable I've seen in some other games.

That way you won't lose those commendations to the void and as soon you need them again (after spending days drifting across dunes in sandbox while helplessly watching new players spam the Summon Fire key (it's like a mini-game (even better, is endlessly summoning dummies and instantly expelling them to hell, seen here ) ) ) you can turn them back on.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Where were all you guys when I argued this before and only got people complaining about my level and labeling me as being unwilling to teach new players!

[Calico Jack]

The achievement is there to simply recognise a standard practice for long term players that had been going on since the beta - namely explaining to new players what the game is about.

Want to get this achievement? The next time you see a new player doing something that they could do better suggest they join you in a sandbox session. As Twinkie says 3 minutes here and there add up.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Yeah see heres the thing...lot of long time players like myself, don't stop a match, take a newbie into sandbox, start up a new box all to explain something that takes maybe a minute tops. In that instance there, it takes longer to exit match, load up sandbox, and then get back in than it does to just train them on the fly. Plus most likely there won't be a spot left to return to in the match. If a player really needs that much hands on personal attention then they probably aren't old enough to be playing the game or they don't feel like reading a manual.

Those achievements only benefit the CAs or the people who sit around in lobby all day spamming their willingness to train people. It doesn't encourage the general population to learn or teach. Just like the level cap achievements don't encourage players to level up. Both encourage people to form premades or stack teams with the purpose of getting achievements.

[Alistair MacBain]

Can agree with Gilder. When im in a match with new players i mostly explain them on the fly what they do wrong and where they can improve im not starting a strange sandbox game.

[N-Sunderland]

As a CA, most of the teaching I do is done within matches/lobbies, or over regional chat. I have brought people into Sandbox to teach them engineering tricks, but none of them were low enough in level to count for the achieve.

[Calico Jack]

Yeah see heres the thing...lot of long time players like myself, don't stop a match, take a newbie into sandbox, start up a new box all to explain something that takes maybe a minute tops.

If you don't feel you need to leave a live match for something that takes a minute tops, then you're probably not dealing with a newbie.

As a CA, most of the teaching I do is done within matches/lobbies, or over regional chat. I have brought people into Sandbox to teach them engineering tricks, but none of them were low enough in level to count for the achieve.

I suspect Gilder is in a similar situation.

To be clear I have been using sandboxes for training since well before there was an achievement for doing it, but it really isn't that hard to get if you do spend time with level 1-3 players. Who knows might even be a good time to start.