Author Topic: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse  (Read 56180 times)

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2013, 11:28:58 am »
Wundsalz, looks like you've brought up another good point.

Seems like there should be a cap on how many points you could bid.  Perhaps it could dependent on how many points the actual match is worth that you're playing in.

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2013, 02:53:18 pm »
So the Planetary Gearing is a solid cake, but what about this lore/story stuff I keep harping on about?

Well, that my friends is the delicious icing (What? I’m hungry!).

I feel... The need.... To participate....

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2013, 03:45:36 pm »
To clarify a couple of things:

-It's starting on the 12th of October.
-It's not quite 8 straight weeks. There's a break week in the middle, as detailed in the post.

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2013, 08:49:15 am »
Wundsalz, looks like you've brought up another good point.

Seems like there should be a cap on how many points you could bid.  Perhaps it could dependent on how many points the actual match is worth that you're playing in.

I see 3 viable options here:

1.) introduce bidding caps  (2-3 points or the match value would probably be reasonable caps).
+ This would add an interesting meta-game to the cogs described in my previous post. Clans would have to estimate their odds against their opponents and bargain deals with the enemy teams if they want to play most efficiently
- the teams scores would not work as a pure indicator for the clans performance on the battle field.
- it's likely that only a fraction of the participants will get involved into the whole bidding thingy, as bidding decisions will probably be made the the teams captains.

2.) introduce a bidding cap of 1 point. If only one team bids they match value is raised by 1 point. if both or no team bids, they play with the default match value and the sides are determined by a coin toss.
+ This would allow both teams to clearly indicate that they really want to play for a side.
o Teams can't enforce sides by spending a lot of points
o the impact on the score integrity would be minimal
- no bidding meta-game.

3) cut the bidding system. Sides will be determined by a coin toss
+ fair - no advantages can be bought
+ team scores would indicate the clans performance in the cogs
- no bidding meta-game.

As I think there is no obvious best choice, it might be a good idea to start a poll allowing all participants of the upcoming season to state which system they'd prefer.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 08:51:28 am by Wundsalz »

Offline Imagine

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2013, 11:01:06 am »
Honestly, the fact that people would gain an advantage from bidding for a certain color of spawns on the maps shows just how badly some maps need to be fixed.

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2013, 12:45:40 pm »
are you sure this is ready to launch in such short notice?

When I'm reading this there seems to be a lot of overlooked issues that needs some discussion and possibly changes.

Personally what really turns me on is that it is broadening up to a wider selection of teams.
however what turns me off is that it is every saturday. if there is a break in the middle, it will go near the christmas holidays.
I don't know about you but a lot of my university exams are based in late november and early december, so not much room on saturdays for guys like me :p (just a opinion here, I know a lot of the other dont have the same problems as me).

But if we look back on the cesports first draft, that was not ready to be launched so I'm just asking you if this is ready to launch?

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2013, 07:54:25 pm »
What about splitting the matches between Saturday and Sunday, or Friday and Saturday?

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2013, 07:57:49 pm »
Because then every team that wants to play on Saturday would be scheduled play on Friday and every team that wants to play on Friday would be scheduled play on Saturday.

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2013, 09:10:07 pm »
What I meant was leave time slots open if the teams agree to them.

Offline Qwerty Kun

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2013, 10:38:22 pm »
Hey Skrim,

Hell to the yes it's ready for release. When releasing it we realised that the areas brought up (Bidding, times, and points) would be discussed and the areas were very open to quick change. You say there is a lot of overlooked issues? I say there are only a few that are easily remedied as per the advice of the community (Which is great btw keep it coming :D).

As to times? *wishful sigh* I wish there was a time where everyone could be on doing nothing but games. Sadly that doesn't happen and it's impossible to avoid everybody's commitments. All I can recommend is train up a good sub.

Wund, your suggestions for the bidding system are good but I just want to put something out there. The primary function of the 'Scrap' (not points) is not to track a teams progress. The scrap is not just points, it is meant to be a tangible resource that the players have to collect with blood sweat and tears. It is not just a season tracking system. We will take recomendations to change the points/bidding system, however we will not remove it unless there is a HUGE outcry against it.

Cheers,

Qwerty

Offline Shinkurex

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2013, 12:08:39 am »
Looks good so far :)... My issue with the bidding system, is that it's horribly imbalanced to the teams that have more scrap (be it that they win it, or have just been in the rotation longer)... I'm thinking this is going to be way more problematic with the newcomer matches. New comers have no scrap, so even if there was a dispute about sides, the defenders will just have to bid 1 scrap to get the side they want. with the other Tiers, it's more of a risk/reward system that could work, but with newcomers it's stupidly low-risk. Suggested fix, would be to give all teams 10 scrap from the start, that way if the defenders want the good spawns, they have to sweat a little.

(Please forgive grammar/spelling/coherency, as it is late... if you want me to explain it better, you know where to find me :)))

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2013, 12:51:57 am »
That seems reasonable enough to me, everyone starts with a certain amount of scrap when they start.

Offline Squash

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2013, 05:29:53 am »
What Shin just said, I like that.

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2013, 06:50:30 am »
I think we should really clarify the purpose of the bidding system here.
do we want some sort of gamble system allowing teams to raise the value of their matches to their favor or do we just want a less random solution for side-picking conflicts ?

If we want the latter we should seriously consider to search for an entirely new alternative.
Frankly I'd rather like to see the bidding system cut out entirely than to see fixes like granting teams 10 points from the start (which is more than a team staying in the Transition gear for the entire season can collect). Keep in mind that the bidding system has been introduced as a fix for a rather minor problem in the OP - a method to decide who picks which side. It has been pointed out that this system can severely influence the outcome of the entire league and it furthermore comes along with balance issues. In my opinion those drawback clearly out-weight the benefit(?) of having less random determinations for who plays which side.

Offline Gryphos

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Re: The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2013, 06:55:54 am »
Keep in mind that the bidding system has been introduced as a fix for a rather minor problem in the OP - a method to decide who picks which side. It has been pointed out that this system can severely influence the outcome of the entire league and it furthermore comes along with balance issues. In my opinion those drawback clearly out-weight the benefit(?) of having less random determinations for who plays which side.

I agree, I don't see any real problem with a simple coin-flip. It's worked thus far and it doesn't have the problems stated previously.