Author Topic: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2  (Read 32528 times)

Offline Mr. Ace Rimmer

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2013, 07:51:21 pm »
The Carronade Buff needs to be completely undone. Why buff a close range weapon that didn't need buffing and make it so over powered it's ridiculous!

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2013, 09:56:15 pm »
What is overpowered about the heavy carronade?

Offline Echoez

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2013, 10:07:21 pm »
The Heavy carronade was way better before 1.3.2, so it is by no means overpowered, it got nerfed and received some changes to balance out the nerf in reload time (which is a whooping 1.5 seconds longer now if I may remind you). The buff in range on both carronades is marginally small and not realy that impactful on public play seeing as your average player will never take advantage of the absolute max range of the gun.

I don't see what's the problem? Ease of use? Anything is easy to use at a range of ~350 meters. I think people just got way too used to disables being non-existant, considering how dominant Gat+Mortar/Flak used to be and now just can't handle it as well. :/

Offline treseritops

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2013, 01:47:30 am »
The problem really becomes when there is no foreseeable counter to them. (excluding more carronades)

I spent all night trying different set-ups (a lumberjack/merc/artemis spire seemed the best, followed by a regular mobula build) and in the end it never mattered. Team with the most carronades wins. I'm not truly convinced of the carronade having a poor downward arc because there was never a time that we could simply get underneath or try anything fancy. This is especially foolish if you consider that should you fail in not being low enough you have only placed yourself closer to the ground.

It really is the new mercury. We would have Puppy Fur (lvl 10 squid) and literally any captain (level 2-3, new players) beating two level 4-6 captains 5-0. Maybe 5-2 if we had a particularly good set-up/teamwork/spawns.  I started to wonder whether or not Puppy could beat us 2-1, honestly.

It does take a good amount of skill to use a squid like that, or to keep the carronades on target in a pyra, but it's almost an identical amount of skill to using the mercury cannon pre-nerf. 

Offline Imagine

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2013, 02:20:40 am »
The only maps where carronades reign supreme are ones with terrain advantage, such as Paritan or maybe Duel. The others? Sure, they're annoying, but not nearly as big of an issue as some make it out to be.

And, honestly, with all the whining about how there's not enough brawling, carronades are pretty much the ultimate form of it. I mean, unless brawling is only supposed mean is gat/mortar/flak 'till the end of time.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2013, 02:24:53 am »
Take this as you will within the whole carronade debate but a pyra with drogue chute a heavy clip loaded chaingun with just about anything else in the front hard counters blenderfish. 

Try it if you don't believe me, just don't stop shooting.

Offline Captain Blueberry

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2013, 03:16:38 am »
The problem really becomes when there is no foreseeable counter to them. (excluding more carronades)

Merc/Artemis and mind your distance. Everything else is upon your crew actually hitting the gun, the map and captain teamwork.
I don't have the same issues especially since the new patch where we have more viable setups than gat/mortar.

Fighting against very experienced captains is always hard. The other captain can be a new guy with the right ship, it doesn't matter as long as he/she does communicate. This is how I started and anihilated better teams, I had a very good captain on my side telling me what to do. The carronade only amplifies this, since the hardest part of it is to positioning your ship correctly imo.
Also, fighting good squids is hard, there are so few of them that it is really difficult to develop tactics.

I spent all night trying different set-ups (a lumberjack/merc/artemis spire seemed the best, followed by a regular mobula build) and in the end it never mattered. Team with the most carronades wins...
I think fighting a carronade ship is less about the ship/layout and more about position, vision and usage of cover. Just don't take the Junker.
I consider a Merc long range Spire a hard counter to carronade ships. If it didn't work, then the enemy was able to outsmart you. Which isn't something to be ashamed of when you fight a lvl 10, somebody who practiced outsmarting people.

I vehemently disagree on "most carronades wins...". No, I was able to fight two blenderfishs WITH A JUNKER, while my wingman was busy chasing his tail. The only thing I had was a trifecta with two artemis' and an able crew. They couldn't even kill me once, their gun was disabled before they came close. They were obviously not lvl 10 captains. But still, I had a Junker...

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2013, 06:47:45 am »
The Heavy carronade was way better before 1.3.2
I don't think so. The weapons damage/shot and range was increased and most importantly the spread of the projectiles was reduced by 1/3 making the usage of other ammunition types than heavy clips viable earlier.
Still I agree with Smollett here - while I appraise the heavy carronade to be a powerful weapon with a large tactical value, I do not think it's overpowered. Similar to hwachas, carros can cause slow and painful deaths if a captain/team doesn't know how to counter it - which can of course result in frustrating experiences. Frankly I believe that complains about the carros are quite fueled by those negative experiences.

Offline Echoez

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2013, 10:34:24 am »

I don't think so. The weapons damage/shot and range was increased and most importantly the spread of the projectiles was reduced by 1/3 making the usage of other ammunition types than heavy clips viable earlier.
Still I agree with Smollett here - while I appraise the heavy carronade to be a powerful weapon with a large tactical value, I do not think it's overpowered. Similar to hwachas, carros can cause slow and painful deaths if a captain/team doesn't know how to counter it - which can of course result in frustrating experiences. Frankly I believe that complains about the carros are quite fueled by those negative experiences.


The only added damage was shatter, which it already had enough of and its effectiveness against armor is far from buffed since the longer reload means a longer cycle.

Balloons always got popped in 2 shots anyway (from the Heavy one), the marginal range buff as I said earlier, is not an issue in public play as most players won't be able to take advantage of it, especialy considering how much people whine about Goldfishes mainly, that ship is so fast, the range buff isn't all that applicable unless you're amazing with the gun and get it right in the first go, next thing you know you are face-hugging the enemy anyway. (and please don't try to argue that even a 10% of pub players would actually stay at the gun's max range)

The only borderline OP Carronade right now is the light one, because the range buff on that one is actually visible and it's much harder to take down a light gun with a tiny hitbox than a heavy one. I still find it funny that a light carronade with Heay clip does around the same burst of damage per clip as the Heavy one, this should be toned down a bit, if the Light carronade required it's whole clip to pop a balloon (5 shots instead of 4) this could balance it out, as anyone approaching with Heavy clip won't pop your balloon in the first go with this gun and actually gives the Heavy carronade an advantage over the light one for being a bigger target of a gun.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 10:36:21 am by Echoez »

Offline awkm

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2013, 10:53:30 am »
The Heavy Carronade is still OP despite its debuffs.

AND

normal carronade.

Relax relax relax.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 11:45:58 am by awkm »

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2013, 11:57:36 am »