Author Topic: Gunner with buff hammer?  (Read 8210 times)

Offline Eukari

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Gunner with buff hammer?
« on: August 30, 2013, 09:59:46 pm »
Okay, I want to preface this with- like most things- the assertion that this should never be done without talking to your captain/crew first.

So, I had the crazy thought of maybe, as a gunner, bringing along a buff hammer as your one engineering tool. General consensus is that gunners should bring the pipe wrench/spanner so that they can maintain their gun(s), and help repair in a pinch. You would then have one of your engineers (the so-called "secondary" engineer) pack a buff hammer.

Has anyone tried mixing it up? Having the gunner bring the buffs and the two engineers roll with standard loadouts? I'm at work, so haven't tried it yet, but here's my gut reaction:

Pros
  • Gunner can keep own gun buffed pretty much constantly, increasing damage.
  • Long-standing buffs (hull, engine) can be primed before combat, when a gunner is otherwise inactive.
  • It frees up both engineers to bring the more versatile mallet/spanner combo, making the repair team more efficient.

Cons
  • Gunner must rely on engineer to keep gun up, which is questionable in heavy combat.
  • One less person who can make repairs- any repairs.

I'm sure someone will chime in on why this is an incredibly stupid idea, but I still totally want to try it now.

Offline Thaago

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2013, 12:54:43 am »
Disabling is very common :). If an engineer needs to repair the gunners gun while he sits there doing nothing, then you have a 3 man crew rather than 4. Then there are situations where you need 2 people camping the hull and 1 rebuilding engines/balloon... The best thing to do would be the pilot jump off and repair and the gunner take the wheel. Its a possibility, but very complicated and not a good idea.

The kicker is that you can't keep your gun constantly buffed and firing. It takes too long to buff compared to the reload time of almost every gun. You can get a hell of a first strike, but then its pretty much useless :/.

If you want an advanced setup, try running 3 engineers, 2 with buff. One mallet/spanner/buff, one wrench/buff/fire, one standard. Put each buff on gun duty (out of combat hull/engine buffs) and watch your opponent evaporate.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2013, 01:06:41 am »
As Thaago said, it gives you loads of power, but the moment they start shooting your gun your gunner's useless. Not a risk worth taking.

Quote
If you want an advanced setup, try running 3 engineers, 2 with buff. One mallet/spanner/buff, one wrench/buff/fire, one standard. Put each buff on gun duty (out of combat hull/engine buffs) and watch your opponent evaporate.

That's pretty much it, though it doesn't work on all ships. That setup works best on Junker, Pyra, Squid, and Mobula. Generally you want your pipe/buff guy to be the one near the balloon (or in the Squid's case, on the right gun), and the mallet/spanner/buff guy to be on the gat (bottom deck Junker, top right Pyra...).

Offline dragonmere

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2013, 10:57:18 am »
Yup. Agree with the above. It's an issue of the number of warm bodies capable of repairing. You never want to rely on the gunner for repairs, but he should always be available to help out wherever needed. Thats why gunners tend to take Pipe. Versatility of 'in a pinch repairs'. Maybe he's keeping the balloon up while both engineers are camping hull, maybe just tapping his gun during tar/sand.

If you put the buff on the gunner, one of the engineers is gonna have to run around like a madman trying to be in two or three places at once. Not to mention, during heavy "oh crap" moment repairs, guns are fairly low priority. So while the second engineer is running around trying to help on hull, keep engines up, and rebuild balloon, the gun is basically going to go down guaranteed. At that point, the buff gunner is 100% ineffective. This is the worst situation. Having a memeber of your crew that literally cannot do anything helpful.

Now, if you want to have the main 'gunner' buffing consistantly, I highly recommend 3 engineers, 2 standard 1 buff. Buff engineer will treat his role as though he's a gunner, only jumping off the gun during heavy repairs. Buff the engines and hull once on your way to gun, and focus on buffed gun. When he's off the gun, he has the ability to maintain his area (gun, possibly engine/balloon), while the secondary engineer with a full kit will be able to handle the situation that much faster, and relieve the gunning engineer of his small repair duties.

3 engineer, 2 buff is definitely way better than buffing gunner, but like Captain N said, it doesn't always work out so well. It lowers the versatility of your crew.

Assuming Pyramidion, with the main engineer on the hull, wrench/buff/fire doing the 'gunning' role, and wrench/buff/extinguisher on balloon/gun. You'll have buffed components, and 2 consistently buffed guns. Oh crap... everything is on fire and your hull engineer is pinned down! The 'gunner' is going to have to go put out fires, at which point your most important gun is not firing. If he's not going to put out the fire, just let the engines burn out, why does he have extinguisher? You're wasting a tool slot. Very not good either way.

So you switch it up. Pyramidion, Mallet/spanner/buff on gun, wrench/buff/extinguisher on balloon. It's pretty much guaranteed that the wrench engineer is going to need some help at some point, or have to spend some serious time camping the balloon. It takes quite a while to either rebuild, or repair from low health with wrench. That means either secondary gun is out of the picture for a portion of the match, or the gunner has to occasionally jump over and help with balloon. Very not efficient either way.

Last set up would be to have the engineers swapping out to keep the more important gun buffed and firing. In this setup, you are able to handle fire repairs, balloon repairs, and keep at least the more important gun buffed and firing. Unless you have weapons that both work well with the same ammo type (Gat/Flak is good with both on heavy clip), you're losing out on proper ammo types. With many gun setups (gat/mortar, merc/flak, merc/mortar), one of those guns is going to have to use vanilla ammo half the time. This is clearly the best option, but still not as efficient or easy as 1 buff/gunning engineer.

Any time both guns are not buffed, loaded with the proper ammo, and firing, you're losing the benefit of having 2 buff engineers.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2013, 11:05:04 am »
The two buff engi thing also comes with another major benefit, though, which I find outweighs the lowered balloon repair efficiency. It lets you get the engines, hull, and balloon buffed around the clock, which a single buff engi would have trouble managing. And if we take the Junker as an example instead of the Pyra, the pilot can help with balloon repairs anyways, so the effect of losing mallet/spanner is lessened.

Offline Eukari

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2013, 12:45:14 pm »
Ah well, it was worth a moment's thought.

And this is nothing personal, but I will never like three engineer crews. It has nothing to do with the merits of the build, it's just that, in a game with three classes, it is wrong to me to only roll with two of them.

Offline WhiteWeasel

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2013, 11:02:49 pm »
How about Gungineer with buff hammer?

Actually this idea can be modified, I'll post here instead of making a new thread about it.

In a match where you need only one ammo type, (or using just one gun) go engineer with spanner/mallet/dynabuff, while the other two have default with fire fighting stuff.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2013, 11:13:23 pm »
How about Gungineer with buff hammer?

Actually this idea can be modified, I'll post here instead of making a new thread about it.

In a match where you need only one ammo type, (or using just one gun) go engineer with spanner/mallet/dynabuff, while the other two have default with fire fighting stuff.

That was already mentioned above.

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: Gunner with buff hammer?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2013, 11:25:51 pm »
Played as a gunner with this setup on a flack spire (3v3 PUB match, after a few rounds with some good engineers and a damn good pilot we decided to mix things up and have some fun) was a glass cannon but very effective as a support/troll ship (barrage Artemis at range while an engaging team-mate actually does the work and takes down hull armour, kill steal: Lochnagar loaded, finish the buff on your own gun while the engineers are still shooting, ????, GG.

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