Will Firing When Turning Ever be "Fixed"?

[Apex]

For the basic of what I mean, look at this ugly picture.



This basically shows how at any time you have to aim behind someone when you're turning. It's worst with the gattling/flamethrower because you don't even see the projectiles going where they actually are. I know I'm not as active as I should be, but this has bugged me since launch.
(If this is how it should be because kasdkakweastorquegforces, then at least fix the flamethrower/gattling to show where they're actually firing)

PPS: If this is in the wrong section I apologize it seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Ccrack]

i agree, i would very much like to see where the gatling is actully fireing, the flamer isnt as much of a problem but thats probbly because you get a lot closer and notice it less

[Charon]

Agreed.

[HamsterIV]

A good captain will not thrash his ship around to prevent this "bug" from effecting his gunners. A bad captain will blame his gunners for missing while completely unaware that his maneuvering contributed to their lack of accuracy.

I just consider it part of the game, and a part of the game that helps me win, so I am not complaining.

[Helmic]

A gremlin that jumps out of the computer monitor and bites your nads whenever you die would be part of the game as well, doesn't necessarily mean it should remain a part of the game.  The question is whether the mechanic makes sense and is more fun overall than a "fixed" version.  What's happening isn't communicated clearly in the game, made worse by the gatling's animation and inaccuracy which implies that it's not a hitscan weapon.  I'd have to hear a more compelling argument for the current mechanic.

[Queso]

Now the gattling is a special issue because it is Ray-cast while the effects are projectile. As for other weapons I felt ship turning affecting firing was totally justified because it would effect projectile momentum.

[Apex]

I don't think spinning a gun causes the projectiles to come out the way they do. If anything it'd cause the projectile to spin or leave the barrel slower.

It really comes off as a lack of proper lag compensation. If you want a challenge to replace the current projectile issue make turrets turn with the ship or give them "wiggle" when a ship is turning/changing altitude.

[Charon]

It's not justified, and it wouldn't adjust trajectory like it currently does. Otherwise, WANTED would be a pretty realistic movie. The only reason turning affects a gunner in real life is the fact that he'll have to swing his turret hard to keep on target.

[HamsterIV]

Keep in mid each turret has a turn rate value, and that turn rate is relative to ship orientation not player aim. The game auto turns a turret to compensate for ship rotation, but it is still limited by the turrets rotation speed. I think this bug is a side effect of the ship's turn rate outstripping the gun's turn rate.

Alternately it could be a client server lag issue. If the player sends a packet to the server that he is shooting a forward gun at a 15 degree offset to the right of the guns center orientation; and the a ship who is oriented at 10 degrees clockwise off north turning clockwise at 20 degrees per second. If the packet takes 0.1 a second to get to the server the server will interpret the shot to occur when the ship is oriented at 12 degrees clockwise off north and send the bullet out at 26 degrees clockwise off north instead of the 25 degrees clockwise off north the player was expecting.

[Sgt. Spoon]

Keep in mid each turret has a turn rate value, and that turn rate is relative to ship orientation not player aim. The game auto turns a turret to compensate for ship rotation, but it is still limited by the turrets rotation speed. I think this bug is a side effect of the ship's turn rate outstripping the gun's turn rate.

A pain, though hard to fix without messing up the turn rate of the weapons.

[HamsterIV]

I think the turn rate of the weapons is intended to give the weapons a feeling of weight. Making the Manticore or Heavy Flack turn as fast as the player's look rotation would make them seem less substantial, even if it would improve the interface.

[Machiavelliest]

From what I could tell, the issue is that the angular velocity of the ship incorrectly imparts a longitudinal component to the trajectory of the projectile.  Obviously a rotating ship affects the velocity and direction of the projectile, but I think in this case angular velocity is being used instead of the angular-to-longitudinal transformed velocity.  I'm pretty sure whoever programmed this will know what I'm talking about.  I can draw pictures if you want.

[awkm]

We know this is a potential issue and we're looking into it.  In general though, angular velocity is VERY hard to predict whether you think you're right or not.  It'll take some time for us to examine the code with a magnifying glass but it does sound like something strange might be going on.  We know about it, it's on the task list.  We've got a lot of stuff to do and we'll be at PAX this weekend so... hopefully the update after PAX will alleviate some of these concerns.

Furthermore, the gatling effects don't translate in world space properly.  They're just parented to the gun and that's wrong.  We know.  However, the actual raycasts are respecting velocity.  Although I can't elaborate on it completely, I'll dig it out of my email tomorrow.

[Watchmaker]

Also, I would be curious as to whether this effect feels any different now that the *other* gun turning bug has been fixed (it was in 1.1.5, shots didn't go quite where you would have expected when a gun was partially rotated in both axes).

[Meriwether]

I'm getting varied results.  Aiming when the ship is turning is fine, as the gun continues to rotate to keep you on target - you fire and because the ship is turning the round seems to come out almost sideways.

I expect shots to inherit momentum (10+ years of Tribes means I have a rather good understanding of the physics involved), but you try firing flak from any turning ship!

If you have a frame of reference (the front of a Goldfishes balloon, as the main Goldfish gunner as an example) then you can adjust to compensate.  You know the ship is turning, you can manually adjust.  If you have no frame of reference, such as a lower gun on a turning Junker when firing broadside, then I wish you the best of luck with your hail-mary shots.

I know communication is key with this, and I know most captains will try to keep it steady.  However, with things as they are, ships like the Pyramidion and Goldfish are a little more.. user friendly, as you will be pointing your nose at the target, whereas a Junker will often circle to keep guns to bear, endlessly turning and ruining gunner's aims.

My two cents.