Author Topic: Firing mechanism and damage explanation  (Read 39152 times)

Offline Kharthynogus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 3
    • 1
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2013, 04:09:57 pm »
Alright, cool. I think I understand now.

So, if I hit something, the direct damage affects only the component which was directly hit, but the AoE damage affects the component which was hit and anything else within the radius, but only once per each component. What I'm wondering is, if AoE damage that hits a component that is destroyed transfers to the armor (and then to the hull if the armor is gone), then does that mean that AoE damage could potentially affect the hull more than once?

For example, let's say Weapon X deals 50 Direct and 50 AoE damages. The SS Roflsauce has had an engine and a gun destroyed. If Weapon X manages to hit the hull directly (50 direct + 50 AoE) and then the destroyed engine and gun are within AoE radius (50 AoE each), then does that mean a total of 200 damage (50 direct + 150 AoE) hits the hull? (I've ignored modifiers for the sake of simplicity.)

Offline N-Sunderland

  • Member
  • Salutes: 280
    • [Duck]
    • 15 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2013, 04:12:52 pm »
AoE can only hit the hull once. The destroyed components act basically like extensions of the already existing hull hitbox instead of extra hitboxes, so yeah, it can only hit once.

Offline Letus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 34
    • [SAC]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 33 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2013, 04:37:52 pm »
AoE can only hit the hull once. The destroyed components act basically like extensions of the already existing hull hitbox instead of extra hitboxes, so yeah, it can only hit once.

Which is why the Lumberjack, with its insane AoE, is not a real killer.  If it weren't the case, the AoE Flechette would be dealing 600 Flechette (or after math, 120 damage) per shot once the Balloon and Hull Armor is down to the hull...and most ships but the Galleon (as hitting the top of the Balloon on the Galleon does little AoE to the hull itself...)

Offline Kharthynogus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 3
    • 1
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2013, 05:36:45 pm »
Ah, okay.

So, if Weapon X had hit the destroyed engine directly, then the AoE still would only apply once to the hull?

Offline N-Sunderland

  • Member
  • Salutes: 280
    • [Duck]
    • 15 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2013, 05:40:57 pm »
Yes, exactly.

Offline N-Sunderland

  • Member
  • Salutes: 280
    • [Duck]
    • 15 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2013, 02:30:58 pm »
Let's say you have charged loaded and the gun buffed. I was under the impression that that would give a 56% boost (1.3*1.2=1.56) in damage per shot, but I've been told that the modifiers actually get added together, which would result in only a 50% boost. Is that the case?

Offline Sprayer

  • Member
  • Salutes: 14
    • [SPQR]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 27 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2013, 03:10:32 pm »
So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?

Offline naufrago

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 10
    • [MM]
    • 16 
    • 45
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2013, 12:26:43 am »
So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?

To the best of my understanding, it has to do with relative velocities and how they're kind of ignored with raycast weapons. While a raycast weapon travels near instantaneously, it's treated as though it has a finite muzzle velocity, and follows the path it would take if it actually travelled with that finite velocity. It just travels along that path near instantaneously.

So let's say your raycast gun has a muzzle velocity of 200m/s. If you're moving up at a rate of 5m/s and your target is 600m away, you will need to aim 15m below where your target actually is in order to hit it (EDIT: Because it would take 3 secs for the weapon to travel 600m with a muzzle velocity of 200m/s, so 5m/s * 3s = 15m). The thing is, your opponent's velocity doesn't matter for the gatling. You could both be moving up at 5m/s such that your relative velocities are 0m/s, but you'll still have to aim 15m below it to hit. It's fairly counterintuitive, and kind of ignores physics in that regard.

The devs made sure that all the guns inherit the velocity of their ship properly. Unfortunately, that doesn't work too well for raycast weapons. Oops.

NOTE: I could be wrong about some aspects, it's been a while since I've actually fired a gatling. I did jump into the sandbox real quick to test my theory, though, and I think it checks out.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 12:29:04 am by naufrago »

Offline Eukari

  • Member
  • Salutes: 42
    • 10 
    • 12
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2013, 01:37:10 am »
So does that explain why, instead of needing to lead targets, the gatling actually needs to fire behind them? (if you're both traveling in the same direction) I've always wondered about that since, as you said, it's very counter-intuitive.

Offline Sprayer

  • Member
  • Salutes: 14
    • [SPQR]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 27 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2013, 07:55:16 am »
So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?

To the best of my understanding, it has to do with relative velocities and how they're kind of ignored with raycast weapons. While a raycast weapon travels near instantaneously, it's treated as though it has a finite muzzle velocity, and follows the path it would take if it actually travelled with that finite velocity. It just travels along that path near instantaneously.
...

Quoted only part that actually answeres my question. Why are Raycast weapons treated this way? And on that topic, that seems to be the only difference between raycast and hitscan gameplay wise.

Offline naufrago

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 10
    • [MM]
    • 16 
    • 45
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2013, 03:22:06 pm »
So does that explain why, instead of needing to lead targets, the gatling actually needs to fire behind them? (if you're both traveling in the same direction) I've always wondered about that since, as you said, it's very counter-intuitive.

In the case where you're both traveling the same direction and not turning, yes.


Why are Raycast weapons treated this way?
The devs made sure that all the guns inherit the velocity of their ship properly. Unfortunately, that doesn't work too well for raycast weapons. Oops.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 03:24:45 pm by naufrago »

Offline N-Sunderland

  • Member
  • Salutes: 280
    • [Duck]
    • 15 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2013, 04:13:56 pm »
So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?

To the best of my understanding, it has to do with relative velocities and how they're kind of ignored with raycast weapons. While a raycast weapon travels near instantaneously, it's treated as though it has a finite muzzle velocity, and follows the path it would take if it actually travelled with that finite velocity. It just travels along that path near instantaneously.
...

Quoted only part that actually answeres my question. Why are Raycast weapons treated this way? And on that topic, that seems to be the only difference between raycast and hitscan gameplay wise.

Another difference worth mentioning: burst rounds don't affect their AoE.

Offline Dutch Vanya

  • Member
  • Salutes: 107
    • [Clan]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2013, 09:53:57 pm »
So why do the gatling gun and carronade not use physical projectiles?

Offline Echoez

  • Member
  • Salutes: 40
    • [Gent]
    • 16 
    • 28
    • 37 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2013, 10:40:44 pm »
So why do the gatling gun and carronade not use physical projectiles?

They would spawn too many objects at once and in quick succession, can't say that's good for the frame rate.

Especially the carronades that fire at least 20 pellets all at once.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2013, 09:13:44 am »
So why do the gatling gun and carronade not use physical projectiles?

They would spawn too many objects at once and in quick succession, can't say that's good for the frame rate.

Especially the carronades that fire at least 20 pellets all at once.

Pretty sure its in the 30-40 range, actually. I think Frago mentioned it to me before, but if that's wrong, blame Shink.