Author Topic: Possible Change to Squid  (Read 5559 times)

Offline Keon

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Possible Change to Squid
« on: August 19, 2013, 01:32:46 am »
Currently, squid loadout is like this:

    |
    o
   / \
 /     \
|       |o--
 \      /
   \  /
    o
     |

o is a gun, the line is it's firing direction.

What if we changed it to:

    |
    o
   / \
 /     \   /
|       |o           this gun is rotated 45 degrees to make an easier bifecta with the front gun.
 \      /
   \  /
    o
     |

What does this do? It's a buff to squid, no questions asked. It allows a gatmortar squid, for one. But a gatmortar squid was always possible, it just took a lot of skill to pull off. Now if we had this, squid becomes slightly easier to use, and also functions as a good counter to a pyra, which gets some complaints nowdays, because of speed and manuverability.

Thoughts?

Offline Surette

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 01:50:57 am »
I've used gat/mortar on my squid for quite a while now, and I think it's easier for me to have the side gun facing straight out (how it is now). I guess it depends on your play style, but on a squid, your biggest advantage is your speed and maneuverability. If my side gun points outwards, I can fly around an enemy while still maintaining those mortar explosions. If my gun were to be facing forward, I have to keep forward gun arcs in order to deal damage. That kind of hinders my maneuverability. I want to be able to fire at my enemy while flying circles around him faster than he can turn, not have to keep pointed straight at him.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 02:12:01 am »
I sort of agree, plus you lose the back gun side gun bifecta, which though underutilized can create some really dynamic squid builds.

Offline JaegerDelta

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 09:01:10 am »
well, if you make the changes in OP you make a design implication that the squid is to be used for straight forward attacks, which is the quickest way to get your squid killed.  the squid depends on its maneuverability, of the ship it self and of the crew, and the placement of things on the ship definitely agree with that as it is.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 09:27:06 am »
Agreed with the rest so far. Circle strafing is a big asset to the squid, and this somewhat diminishes that. It takes a little finesse to get those arcs proper (talking gat/mortar) and good pilots (who should arguably be the only ones flying a squid) would hopefully realize this and fly accordingly.

With that change, you really relegate the back gun to utility only, and cut into the circle strafe.

Offline Keon

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2013, 10:57:32 am »
Hm, I guess that makes sense. My idea when creating this was to make another ship that could be used sort of like a pyra, with 2 frontal guns, but that couldn't stand up to sustained fire. That way, it would mean less circles around ships and more "get behind them and hit them hard and fast, if they turn around you're dead."

I guess I want to forget the idea of "squid is built for this, this, and this, and can only be flown in this way by a pilot of this skill." Make squid a intermediate ship, because, let's face it, right now even I can't fly a squid effectively. I mean, I could probably pubstomp, but using it to get behind the Dirty Duck and score a kill? NOoooo. (not that I could kill the Dirty in a pyra either, but you know what I mean.)

I know squids are never meant to be able to kill a ship 1vs1, but what if they got changed so it was easy to use them like a dagger - good when it comes in from someplace you can't defend, but if you see it coming, it's no problem?


squid
<>-         =<> pyra
  \               ||

the pyra would win 100 percent of the time.

squid       pyra, facing away
<>-            <>=
  \

is a well coordinated squid's victory. It's still not a brawler. It's more of a ganker, to use the DOTA term, less of a distraction / scout ship.



Anyhow, about circling, I see what you mean. Any ideas how to keep circling, and all the advanced tactics we have, yet lower the skill required to fly a basic squid?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 10:59:08 am by Keon »

Offline Quipster

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2013, 11:14:36 am »
What if the front weapon was a heavy, instead of a small ?

Then you maintain the circle strategy, but also make long-range viable provided the pilot can keep it pointed at the target.

As it stands, the Squid is pretty awesome. A flamer/carronade (or flak works well too) combo can win a 1v1 under the right conditions, but it feels like those conditions aren't met all that often. (Specifically, I mean getting the jump on someone in a tight spot, getting their balloon popped, and then keeping them down. Requires getting the jump on em, and being undisturbed while doing the killing).

If it had some more damage output, that process would be a lot quicker, and it would make it a much more viable ship... Leverage it's speed to catch people when they're away from their team, and then the increased firepower to down them before backup arrives.

Offline Keon

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2013, 11:34:56 am »
Heavy weapon on a squid just wouldn't look right. It's a squid, not a goldfish.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2013, 11:49:50 am »
I do like this idea, but to play devils advocate I would like to point out it does lower the versatility of a squid. If you roll gat front, gat side, flack rear, you can put down 2x gat until the hull drops and finish the fight with gat flack which arguably gives you better killing power than the Pyra's front guns. Not that you can toe to toe with a Pyra, but in those cases where your ally is getting focused, this sort of thing can turn a team fight in your favor.

Offline Keon

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2013, 11:55:29 am »
I do like this idea, but to play devils advocate I would like to point out it does lower the versatility of a squid. If you roll gat front, gat side, flack rear, you can put down 2x gat until the hull drops and finish the fight with gat flack which arguably gives you better killing power than the Pyra's front guns. Not that you can toe to toe with a Pyra, but in those cases where your ally is getting focused, this sort of thing can turn a team fight in your favor.

Interesting. I'd need to try it.

Offline Old Nemrod

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 12:26:13 pm »
If anything, I would LOVE if the squid had an option of which side you want your broadside gun. Might be just the way I fly, but many times lining up the bifecta on the right side against a moving target trying to turn into me, exposes me.

I'd really be interested to see no rear gun and dual broadside. Not too serious on this idea, but would love to see what ripples that build would have with the community.

Offline MasX

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2013, 12:41:29 pm »
I would love this easier to park behind a ship and just destroy it   I use mortar front flame side

Offline Zenark

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2013, 01:19:18 pm »
Although I love the idea of giving a Squid better brawling capabilities, I have to stick with the current setup. If I'm able to get behind a target, I can get the bifecta easy enough (depends on my loadout), but I often have to fight a ship trying its absolute hardest to make sure I don't get to their blindside, meaning I have to circle them at all sorts of angles. Having all the weapons at right angles gives me an almost 180° firing arc on the starboard side, meaning that my gunner can keep the pressure on the target and I don't have to worry about his arc; I can focus on piloting and getting to a better position.

I haven't used the rear gun for a bifecta since the Phobos came out >:D but having that option is nice.

Offline Keon

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2013, 01:25:04 pm »
My goal isn't to make the squid viable for Zenark or Mas-X, etc. It's to make it viable for that level 3 pilot. (no not me shuddup. I can fly a good gatmortar squid already.)

But yeah, point taken. I see what you all mean with the thing.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Possible Change to Squid
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2013, 01:42:20 pm »
I actually flew with a really good level 2 Squid pilot about  a week and a half ago, so there are definitely some people that are picking it up quickly.

That being said the Squid is one of the few ships that can start an engagement on the front side of a pyra and still dominate it, because it can quickly become not on the pyras front side, especially for the captains that take artemis or flamers due to their ability to damage the pyras engines.