Author Topic: awkm is op  (Read 4540 times)

Offline Mr Arrow Captl Fello

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awkm is op
« on: August 14, 2013, 07:38:52 pm »
All joking aside, I truthfully only have two gripes: but let me summarize what I've written below first:

1) make the useless guns useful again
2)stop making the game harder for new players
---------------------------------
(read on if you dare)

1)perhaps it's time to stop thinking in terms of weakening weapons, and start thinking about raising the other weapons to meet that competitive level.

Banshee is a good example...at some point in our distant past it was buffed to a "useful" status, which earned it a nurf shortly thereafter to where it's at currently in the "useless" category...in stead of nurfing it there should have been a counter created (chem spray at the time wasn't working) to help combat it's usefulness

example if a sniper gun exists, there should be a tactical tool to counter said sniping
like forward shooting smoke screen, that doesn't damage your own ship

or when the Artemis was "op" something like chaff that would cause the missile to miss the target

(when I say useless, a quick look at a competitive match would easily indicate what I mean by "useless" guns...as they are never used)

at one point there was a time when you would really have to ask yourself should I take gun a, or gun b, as they could be match specific, or target specific...now all you have is choice a

there are tons of other options if you don't want to raise the bar:

you could add new guns to the game to add challenge, I'm still a huge fan of a muck gun that prevents an airship temporarily from rising

or return fire to being a real threat...maybe there should  be a captains tool that would make a ship temporarily immune to fire (at some fun expense, like all guns shoot slower)

2) I have yet to see one change that improves the feel or learning curve for new players

example, does shaking the Lumberjack serve any purpose other than increasing the challenge for experienced players? does making any gun harder to shoot improve the game play at all?
(sorry that is a rhetorical question, please withhold your rounds of Duck No)

My point being is that making the game harder does not make it better...

(are we trying to turn GOIO into a Korean professional competitive game? I hope not!)

our efforts should be in making the teamwork portion of this game even more involved, more exciting, keeping new players hooked into our community in preparation for the upcoming release of adventure mode....

one game, played against one team of new players, who finds every other gun besides the Mercury in this game too difficult to learn in less than 500 matches Should not mean please nurf the Merc...it should draw to our attention how we are failing our community


why not give new players a moving target reticle...fire bullet with gun in this box to hit target (like in Tribes 2)

or add something to the game to bolster teamwork

I would love to see a truly heavy cannon that requires a gunner to fire it and an engineer to load the ammo (min of two people to fire the single gun)

or a ship that needs a crew for more than just repair and shoot
for example...the map could be a tool to bring instead of the spyglass...so you need to act as the navigator and tell the captain where to fly

add challenge that ADDs to the gameplay, not to the learning curve


This is all


-Mr Arrow

indeed a Capital Fellow
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 07:50:58 pm by Mr Arrow Captl Fello »

Offline Queso

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 08:02:34 pm »
While it's always nice to have new content to deal with annoyances, it just isn't practical. Guns take art, programming, and a hell of a lot of time to add to the game. Plus with work going on towards Adventure Mode, it would take months just to push out a counter to a single strategy.

Feature requests. Feature requests are the bane of awkm's existence.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2013, 08:05:44 pm »
Banshee problem was more that it was replacing flamethrowers. I wrote in on it and encouraged a change because the fire spray was just too much. Course at the time flamethrowers were pretty bad so yeah. I remember using Banshee on my squid instead of flamer and just decimating ships because I could stay at range and accomplish the same goal as if I was on a flamer at close range. Enemies couldn't do much of anything to stop it since I'd avoid their firing arcs.

Think buffing that gun is fine as long as it isn't like last time where it replaced another weapon entirely.

Offline Keon

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2013, 11:22:54 pm »
I guess I don't agree with everything here, but I would like to see it discussed.

As for difficulty of guns, some should be easy and some should be harder to fire. That's just the way of things. Making the guns make more sense; IE gatling while moving is fixed, so that it's more intuitive to new players. I guess I think this thread says a lot about what's wrong, and I agree with a lot of that, but you don't get into specifics or propose solutions.

Anyways, what guns do you feel are useless, and what things do you feel are hard learning curve?

Offline Calico Jack

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2013, 07:41:45 am »
Why not allow adding restraints manually, through a GUI, where you can limit ammo counts, ship types, ship loadouts.
Currently the ship types and loadouts gets done by reaching agreement in or prior to entering, a match lobby, why not formalise it - whoever starts a Match lobby has the option to leave everything alone or place limits.

Offline Plasmarobo

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2013, 09:20:26 am »
Why not allow adding restraints manually, through a GUI, where you can limit ammo counts, ship types, ship loadouts.
Currently the ship types and loadouts gets done by reaching agreement in or prior to entering, a match lobby, why not formalise it - whoever starts a Match lobby has the option to leave everything alone or place limits.
I have strong feelings against limitations of any kind. While it might be effective I resent the loss of choice. And why shouldn't anyone be able to choose anything? It's how you learn: experimentation. Sometimes, other people's experimentation.

I honestly feel there should be massive skill continuum in the game. I don't think it should be weighted. I think there should be a few easy to use guns, a few middle o the ground type guns, and some very difficult guns. Newbies should be provided the easy guns by default. This only becomes a problem when more experienced players pick on newbies (to which I say: fix the community, not the game). For comp matches... I should hope everyone would be mature enough to agree on limitations and self-impose them. We don't need a system of censure.

There are definitely some guns that could be improved, but I understand Muse is working on it (and lots of other things). The recent changes went in to fix a very real problem at low level play, with the understanding that it would shake up the comp world, but we should be able to adapt. As far as I know, the fix has solved the problems in beginner matches (which is discussed to death elsewhere).

That said, the CAs and some folks are working pretty hard to train up newbies, and drag them into the more advanced parts of the game. I know tutorials have been touted, but honestly with so much going on with Muse at the moment, I think we need to do the best we can ourselves. Obviously they've seen this thread, so we know that some things are coming.

I sound like a broken record lately, but these things do take time. Patients is required.

Offline Calico Jack

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2013, 09:51:48 am »
Plasmarobo

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm describing


have you ever wanted to play a single ship type match, or use a single loadout (thinking all squids with harpoons and flares as I write this) with all captains?

Have you ever had 1 new arrival in the situation described above who refuses to accept this pre agreed match type?


Who says the default type has to be restrictive ? Why not start with generous amounts of ammo on the mercury , flak or LJ?


Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2013, 10:04:28 am »
Quote
have you ever wanted to play a single ship type match, or use a single loadout (thinking all squids with harpoons and flares as I write this) with all captains?

Very rarely to be honest. Limits like that would just segregate the matches to me. 

As to the point brought up that a lot of guns aren't seen in competition, is that (at least I do) like to use certain tactics, and we use the guns that fit those tactics. I don't use banshee in competition not because it's crap (honestly I like it in other situations just fine) but because it doesn't fit the tactic.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2013, 12:32:11 pm »
The guns are only weaker to those of us who are accustom to how powerful the guns were in the past. Newbies who experience the gun for the first time will assume that is how the gun always worked. I came in after the Artemis lost its tracking powers, and can't fathom how that gun would work with tracking.

Also awkm is way OP. He knows the new meta for each weapon before the patch is released. We all have to play catchup as he gleefully watches our floundering attempts from his doom fortress and laughs. At least that is how I assume a game designer goes about his work.

Offline snor-laxatives

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2013, 02:42:43 pm »
I agree that there should be guns of varying difficulty.  For example, the Lumberjack.  I love that gun to pieces, but in pubs it doesn't pop up a whole lot, so every chance I get if the gunner is willing, I fly lumberfish and walk him through the gun.  I cant tell you how many matches I've had were the gunners thank me for taking the time to teach them how it works.  I think the same goes for any gun, and any strategy, as the community grows and we continue to pass on the tricks of the game we will see noobs, turn into pros.  (It also helps that a large part of our community is friendly and looking to teach more players)

Also, I love the idea of a map tool!  Actually any kind of tools or adjustments to make the game more team based.  Maybe right under the commander slot during the lobby there is a 1st mate slot, who can also be any class but will also be the only one who can use the map.  Some people might say "well then the pilot will just always play in the first mate slot so he can use the map, but then he would lose the ability to talk to the other captain.

Good discussion.

Offline Serenum

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Re: awkm is op
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2013, 12:10:16 pm »
Why not allow adding restraints manually, through a GUI, where you can limit ammo counts, ship types, ship loadouts.
Currently the ship types and loadouts gets done by reaching agreement in or prior to entering, a match lobby, why not formalise it - whoever starts a Match lobby has the option to leave everything alone or place limits.

I feel this would be the best solution and it would go a long way to improve the gameplay.