Author Topic: Handguns and personal weapons  (Read 4559 times)

Offline Ballu

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Handguns and personal weapons
« on: March 04, 2013, 06:28:24 am »
Hello there!

First of all: I promise not to talk about boarding other ships or face-to-face battles. This Game is about airship battles and I dont want this to change.

1. "So what the hell do I need a handgun for if there's noone to shoot at?"

There IS someone to shoot at: The enemys airship. The better question would be:

2. "Why should I use a Handgun if i could use the Ships guns?"

Because Handguns can do things you would never waste a ships gunslot for (there'll be some examples in the text below). At all, I'm talking about relatively weak weapons for precise tactical actions. They should not be usefull for damaging or even killing enemy ships. All the ship classes have a weakspot  (a direction they cant fire to), and strong weapons you can use while you're running around on the ship would destroy this (very important) balancing feature, so i don't want to suggest a Railgun, a Rocket Launcher or something.

3. "So what weapons are we talking about?"]/b]

Handguns should have a tactical function. The first time I was thinking about handguns was the first time I read something about the Flare gun: The abillity to see ships hiding in the clouds sounds great, but at all i would never install the Flare Gun on my ship, just because I need every single weapon slot on my ship in battle. My first Idea:

The Flare Gun as a handgun. Same Effect like it's "Big brother", maybe adding a feature so you cant spam with it all the time. Talking about that, I have to add that the pilots "Gunnery Perk"-Slot is more than useless right now - what about adding the Flare Gun as a Gunnery Item so Pilots can use it?

My second idea was kind of a sniper rifle, which makes no damage to hull or balloon. The sniper may be used for taking out one of the enemys Weapon on the right time. Just Imagine: The Moment the enemy comes really close and you finally recognize that it's got a flame thrower. Now, you can just try to destroy the enemys "components" at all, which means you try to destroy engines and weapons with shatter-damage, but in that moment you just need to destroy the flamethrower somehow. A few shots from the sniper rifle may give you another minute for repairing (or running) and save your live. On the other hand, taking out one Weapon is not overpowered compared to a ships weapon. I'm thinking about that rifle like a kind of a musket, so it has a really long reload time, to ensure that it is useless for the "real" fight and cant replace a shatter-damage weapon. A way to destroy one specific component (espacially weapon) on the enemys ship imo would be an interesting feature.

The third possible Handgun is the crossbow, that shoots burning arrows at the enemys airship. Without inflicting damage, the Arrow just adds one (2? 3?) flame charges to the target. May be used to stress the enemys Engineer? Imagine your Gatlings are shreddering the enemys hull while one of you sets fire to the balloon... not too strong again, but I'm sure it could make an Engineer going crazy when it's used the right way.

At all, Weapons like this could be a great Advantage for Gunner class. Right now, a crew with more than 1 gunner isn't very intelligent, because a gunner is much worse in repairing than an Engineer in shooting. If only Gunners can carry handguns (or more than one gun... however it's balanced), they would be much better in shooting than an Engineer and may become more important to the crew again.

Fourth Idea: The Chemical Weapon (Example name ;-) ) deletes all BuffTool- and Chemical Spray buffs from the hidden object (or the whole ship?). Nice to support your ships flamethrower attack!

The Heat Laser (example name again^^) hits the target with a high temperature beam. For a few seconds after that, it can't be repaired, because its too hot. The weapon is adding a repair cooldown of a few seconds to the target (only if there is none, I would say. Otherwise it would be OP). Of course the reload Time is long enough so you can't spam cooldowns on every hardpoint. This gun could be used for starting a new attack. While focusing on the ships Armor, for example, someone could add a repair cooldown to the Balloon (because you're sure the enemys engineer is repairing armor right now) and then the ships weapons turn to shoot the balloon, wich can't be repaired for a few wonderfull seconds ...

Finally, I also was thinking about the Abillity to disable the enemy pilots and/or gunners perks. That may be enough to rescue your ship in the right moment (Example: Enemy Gatling with Heavy Clip :D ).

I'm sure there are many other possible uses for Handguns, but those I mentioned imo seem to be usefull, but not overpowered. Of course, some of those ideas aren't as good as I thought, so just tell what you're thinking about it. Oh, and I have to mention that I never saw the old Forum, so if that kind of discussion was there before, I'm sorry for creating a new topic...

Awaiting your answers,
Ballu

Offline Pickle

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 06:37:17 am »
Doesn't appeal to me.
- There's a risk of a handgun being OP compared to a light weapon if it can disable an enemy ships guns.
- It's too close to anti-crew weaponry, which is an area that I personally don't want to see and the existing game mechanic does not include this.
- It's a sop to the Engineer that can't get on a fixed weapon or the spare Gunner that disrupts the crew balance.
- It opens the door to boarding, which is a door that's firmly closed, bolted, padlocked and welded shut.

Offline Ccrack

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 06:45:05 am »
i agree with hubert however having a small personal flargun for the pilot would be intresting, could fill up that mostly pointless ammo type slot and to make it less effective than a normal flaregun just limit it to 1 shot per life

Offline Lord Dick Tim

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 06:48:30 am »
I also like the flare gun idea, but would only really want it if we ever get true night maps.  I want a true night map sooooo bad.

Offline Sgt. Spoon

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2013, 06:50:34 am »
One of the main reasons why we won't have boarding is just that implementing hand-held weapons, and all the new work needed for it (calculating shots from the players body and not just the fixed ship components for example), takes a lot of time and resources. Even just for such at thing as a hand held flare gun. All in all, they have to focus on other things.

Offline Ccrack

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 07:05:13 am »
im completly against bording. with the flair thing, it wouldnt even have to be something hand held maybe it could just be like a captian ability to drop a flair under the ship or something since there are a few ships that you dont really need a 3rd ability.

i would love some night maps but it would probbly need some kind of new mechanic to work well. i would want a night maps battle to go much differently from a normal one or it would ultimatly just be like fighting in the clouds on duel at dawn or something

Offline Jazzza

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 07:21:53 am »
I'm against this idea. You should be using the ship's weapons as much as possible. If you can't get a good angle, you need to inform your captain. If you can't perform tactical shots, your captain should change weapons.

It's all about balance (I know that word has been very overused) but it's true - all of these elements of the game have been designed to balance each other.

Offline Ballu

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 07:43:45 am »
As I wrote, boarding was never part of that idea ;-) Kepp that in mind.

The Game uncludes many ways to "buff" your ship. The Pilot can buff the ships movement speed for example, the Engineer can buff every single hardpoint and the Gunner has a few perks to buff the Weapon he's currently using. Is there a way to "debuff" the enemy? No. Of course you can make your own ship stronger, but you should be able to make the enemy weaker, too. That's why I suggested things like disabling perks or disabling the chemical spray's buff.

Edit: I don't want those weapons to act like normal weapons. They should be different things at all, so you still have to use the ships Weapons the same way you do right now. Handguns: "Debuff". Ship Guns: Battle.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 07:46:07 am by Ballu »

Offline Ccrack

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 08:18:17 am »
the tar barrel seems to do a good job of ''debuffing'' the enemy

Offline Pickle

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 08:29:36 am »
As I wrote, boarding was never part of that idea ;-) Kepp that in mind.

The Game uncludes many ways to "buff" your ship. The Pilot can buff the ships movement speed for example, the Engineer can buff every single hardpoint and the Gunner has a few perks to buff the Weapon he's currently using. Is there a way to "debuff" the enemy? No. Of course you can make your own ship stronger, but you should be able to make the enemy weaker, too. That's why I suggested things like disabling perks or disabling the chemical spray's buff.

Edit: I don't want those weapons to act like normal weapons. They should be different things at all, so you still have to use the ships Weapons the same way you do right now. Handguns: "Debuff". Ship Guns: Battle.

Causing damage debuffs gun and engine performance.  Surely that's enough?

It does sound like something to apease wannabe gunners pushed into the engineering/piloting role because the crew already has enough gunners.  A bit like the boredom complaints from crew when the captain plays a strategic game instead of the headlong rush into melee.

Offline Shinkurex

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 08:34:41 am »
Quote
At all, Weapons like this could be a great Advantage for Gunner class. Right now, a crew with more than 1 gunner isn't very intelligent, because a gunner is much worse in repairing than an Engineer in shooting. If only Gunners can carry handguns (or more than one gun... however it's balanced), they would be much better in shooting than an Engineer and may become more important to the crew again.

Not to sound defensive or anything, but the gunner class is plenty important... We keep the engies from doing work if we can.... you wound me sir :P

Offline Sgt. Spoon

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 08:40:15 am »
As I wrote, boarding was never part of that idea ;-) Kepp that in mind.

Well, the only reason why I brought up boarding again was that hand-held weapons lies in the "same archive" as boarding atm. Implementing it is a rather big feature request:
implementing hand-held weapons, and all the new work needed for it (calculating shots from the players body and not just the fixed ship components for example), takes a lot of time and resources. Even just for such at thing as a hand held flare gun.

Offline Pickle

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2013, 09:38:23 am »
Quote
At all, Weapons like this could be a great Advantage for Gunner class. Right now, a crew with more than 1 gunner isn't very intelligent, because a gunner is much worse in repairing than an Engineer in shooting. If only Gunners can carry handguns (or more than one gun... however it's balanced), they would be much better in shooting than an Engineer and may become more important to the crew again.


Oh.. I missed that bit.. so if you think Gunners are less than useful (which they aren't, they're very useful and there are ship builds for two gunners that work well), why would encouraging them to use personal weapons and not shooting the big guns attached to the ship be an advantage?

Steering the ship
Fixing the ship
Shooting the big guns attached to the ship

Enough there to keep the whole crew busy as it is.

Offline teweedo

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2013, 10:15:24 am »
First off, I always appreciate new and creative ideas so good work TS.

Second, I am afraid this idea would not fit in GOIO. As far away as it is to boarding, it is still too strong of an ability.

We have enough to focus on. And if 4 people takes out four weapons at once from the enemy ship while leaving their usual pilot/repair/gun spot then it goes against the general flow of the game.

However I still like the concept to some extent. I disagree with people who says the flare gun cant be easily implemented. It could be just like the long view we already have except it would take a gunner skill slot and I love this because thats exactly what I would like as a pilot.

If it cant be implemented as such then I would love to have a feature that makes me wear a handgun at my belt or a musket on my back just for fun. I would like to be able to fire a warning shot which does nothing but sound.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Handguns and personal weapons
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 05:57:03 pm »
Handheld tools that don't need a component to function (like the spyglass) are cool as hell, but there'd need to be variety so that you're not shoehorned into picking that one tool every time like we currently do with the pilot slot and the spyglass.