Typhon, Heavy Flak Discussion.

[awkm]

"Increasing it's stability towards lateral and vertical movement, so shots aren't affected that much by movement anymore, would prevent overexcessive use of lesmok and force the players to use other ammo types to gain advantages."

This means that if your own ship turns right on the spot to keep the guns aimed at another ship, your gun would be affected by that turning less. Same as you did with the gatling, but inverted.
I think it's not a problem of the angles but that the gun behaves as if you had heavy clip loaded into it, it's shots are far too precisely.

This can't be changed.  Guns inherit velocity from ships in a realistic manner.  To change that would be to break the entire physics model.

[Captain Smollett]

@awkm

What people are mostly decrying is the loss of a shot in the heavy Flak due to lesmok changes.  This is because the second shot was the kill shot.

People depended on lesmok before to make a kill at long and medium ranges, which was the primary reason people took heavy flak.  It was an incredibly risky strategy that paid off big with a skilled gunner. 

For example when a pyramidion was charging a Spire, a Flak spire used to be able to kill it by dropping its armor at medium to long range and killing it with two very precise Flak shots.  If a Flak shot were to miss, the Pyra would usually close in and kill the Spire.

Without the second shot to finish at long to medium range, the Flak loses a lot of it's raison d'etre.  I have heard some of the very experienced flak users talking about adding another shot to the gun as a solution.  It's too hard to conceptualize whether it would make the gun op in competitive play (it probably wouldn't change much since competitive players rarely miss and they only need 2 shots anyways) but I think it might likely make it balanced in pub play.

[Echoez]

Agreed with Smollett pretty much, I think with the New Lesmok and an ammo increase this gun will shine a bit more as the finisher it was designed to be I guess, plus the ammo change might encourage other ammo types as well.

[awkm]

I can't keep my threads straight but yes, increasing ammo for heavy flak is a possible solution.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

The part you referred to, awkm, was the one about the mortar. My post may have been chaotic, so just wanted to clearify that.
Referring to said post again: Decreasing the range of the mortar still might be worth a thought, but I don't think this will be the only change that has to be made on this gun.


So Smollett and Echoez, I guess we mainly agree on those points?

[Clara Skyborn]

I guess my biggest complaint is trying to do these new achievements with all these changes. I cant see me getting anymore Lochnager and flak part destroys since the heavy flak is even more shunned for the moment. And please dont even bring up the light flak, would anyone really expect to do a lochnager shot with that thing . This has to be done without accidentally killing them, which in itself is fairly absurd. 2000+ m part destroys is still possible I guess using charged rounds, but I just truly despise talentless buffoons that sit in the corner with a mercury, so I have been slowly getting mine done with a LumberJack. I guess my main concern is all these achievements. It is no secret I like to get my levels, thats how I am, and could care less who likes it or not. The heavy flak is hard to hit with at range, even with the slothlike lesmok projectile. Just put 2 rounds back in the thing.

There are a few more achievement revisions coming -- that particular achievement is being changed to remove the gun constraint, so it's Lochnagar with anything, if that helps.

[Echoez]

The part you referred to, awkm, was the one about the mortar. My post may have been chaotic, so just wanted to clearify that.
Referring to said post again: Decreasing the range of the mortar still might be worth a thought, but I don't think this will be the only change that has to be made on this gun.


So Smollett and Echoez, I guess we mainly agree on those points?

I personaly enjoy the Mortar right now, though I do agree that some changes need to be done, since the only problem with it is Lesmok though, you might want to take a look at the 1.3.1 Lesmok discussion thread, Sammy B.T. brought up an interesting point.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

I was referring to the heavy flak changes, sorry. Since you pointed out something that has been written before, but I don't know if you agree with it or just want it because of different reasons - also the first point stayed unanswered.

About the mortar, it's quite enjoyable, but as awkm said - you just load up lesmok and it pretty much hits without you doing anything.
I don't see lesmok as the problem (especially not the new lesmok) but the gun itself.

[Echoez]

Oh yes, definately, an extra shot to the Heavy Flak would be most welcome if it is to retain its Finisher only niche. Extra shell life might be cool as well, we will have to test.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

Well, then we disagree on the extra shell life as it currently looks. Why do you think adding extra shell life would help? Maybe there's something I'm missing.

[HamsterIV]

Could the ammo of a gun be expressed as a float?
For example if the fieldgun's ammo were set at 2.0f while the Flack cannon was expressed as 2.5f using an ammo the reduced clip size by 20% would result in the field gun having one shot 2.0f*0.8f=1.6f and the flack still having two 2.5f*0.8f =2.0f.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

Since we round up from x.5, 1.6f would lead to 2 shots I guess. Also, -20% clip size is pretty much what has been changed in the new lesmok (to -30%).

[Twinkie D-Lite]

As far as the mortar goes its pretty much fine the way it is. Lets be honest most players cant hit crap with that thing unless your close enough to throw a rock at them anyway. And if your already on top of them why would you even want lesmok then, greased or burst is always better for that.

[HamsterIV]

My point is Muse could set one gun to drop to 1 round with lesmok while having another keep 2 rounds with lesmok if they used floats and made the second gun have a fractionally larger clip.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

Why not change one gun instead of many guns/ammo types?