Pyra being op?

[Rainer Zu Fall]

Well, at the moment my solution with the "far ranged guns" doesn't work that good anymore...but still, there are many other possibilities.

[Captain Smollett]

I suppose I meant they can out repair their hull.  Junkers have a smaller hit box and more armor so generally it takes longer to destroy the armor of a Junker.

As for hull rebuilds, I suppose it's a bit easier for the pilot to help on a pyra, however all 3 crew (if you use the repair from below trick) and pilot are close enough to the Junker's hull to sometimes make it tactically viable to group rebuild.

[Plasmarobo]

Incorrect ways to engage a Pyra:

|yourship>      <enemypyra|



Correct way to engage a pyra:

                       <yourship|

<enemypyra|


Problem solved!

I love this diagram.

But Smollett is right. Especially with a buffed hull, junkers are actually pretty tanky. You just don't let the armor go down, and that is a team effort between everyone on the ship.

[Sammy B. T.]

I fly Junker particularly because it excels against the Pyra, therefore I think of myself an expert on the engagements of Pyras. All things being equal, a Junker side will beat a Pyra front. Also assuming I am not surprised, the Junker is an excellent dodger of rams with a bit of Kerosene and Phoenix Claw, keeping gun arcs on at the same time.

Pyramidions are very vulnerable to focus fire, especially while they are engaging because they can't really dodge horizontally while keeping their guns in arc. Imagine a FPS where you have two guys who can only shoot straight but one can only run forwards and backwards whereas the other one strafes left and right. While the run running straight might be the more knockout of the two, the one who strafes is the one who can dodge the most while in combat.

[HamsterIV]

The downside with strafing is if your gunners can't compensate and end up dumping their clip into empty sky. The Pyra is more forgiving of poor gunnery skills. I don't know why I am arguing for it, I gave up the Mo' Dakka Dakka Dakka at patch 1.2 since keeping the trifecta sweet spot was too difficult without phoenix claw. I guess this discussion needs to occur so that new players can grasp the pros and cons of a ship.

[Thaago]

Incorrect ways to engage a Pyra:

|yourship>      <enemypyra|



Correct way to engage a pyra:

                       <yourship|

<enemypyra|


Problem solved!

Preeeetty much. Believe it or not squids are excellent anti-pyra ships - just put a carronade on front and a mortar on the side (more optional). Close as fast as you can, dodge the ram with chute vent or hydrogen, and come up behind them. Shoot out the engines, not balloon and voilla. Engines take a long time to repair, pulls an engineer off of the hull, and stops the enemy from maneuvering cold. You can either then ride them to the ground, killing armor and balloon, or ignore them and go double team another ship with your ally.

[Serenum]

I fly Junker particularly because it excels against the Pyra, therefore I think of myself an expert on the engagements of Pyras. All things being equal, a Junker side will beat a Pyra front. Also assuming I am not surprised, the Junker is an excellent dodger of rams with a bit of Kerosene and Phoenix Claw, keeping gun arcs on at the same time.

Pyramidions are very vulnerable to focus fire, especially while they are engaging because they can't really dodge horizontally while keeping their guns in arc. Imagine a FPS where you have two guys who can only shoot straight but one can only run forwards and backwards whereas the other one strafes left and right. While the run running straight might be the more knockout of the two, the one who strafes is the one who can dodge the most while in combat.

Suffice to say that I don't agree with a single word of this and that I think your logic is incredibly falwed.

[Nidh]

I have to say I despise the Pyra. Too easy to fly, too much firepower. You say all you have to do is get on it's blindside, but unless the Pyra pilot is blind and deaf, that's not "all there is to it." There is no "high-ceiling" skill cap for the Pyra, you aim it at what you want dead and it dies. Its front guns are incredibly well protected, it's the easiest ship to repair, and it's the easiest ship to shoot from considering there is a lot less compensation going on from turning the ship too fast. The other suggestion for countering the Pyra is to outright kill it. How do you do that? With another Pyra.

[Plasmarobo]

I fly Junker particularly because it excels against the Pyra, therefore I think of myself an expert on the engagements of Pyras. All things being equal, a Junker side will beat a Pyra front. Also assuming I am not surprised, the Junker is an excellent dodger of rams with a bit of Kerosene and Phoenix Claw, keeping gun arcs on at the same time.

Pyramidions are very vulnerable to focus fire, especially while they are engaging because they can't really dodge horizontally while keeping their guns in arc. Imagine a FPS where you have two guys who can only shoot straight but one can only run forwards and backwards whereas the other one strafes left and right. While the run running straight might be the more knockout of the two, the one who strafes is the one who can dodge the most while in combat.

Suffice to say that I don't agree with a single word of this and that I think your logic is incredibly falwed.

Let's play nice here. Serenum, I think you'll find most people agree with this sentiment that Junker strafe > Pyra charge. What have you seen that countermands this?
Saying "you're wrong" without providing evidence or anecdote isn't really constructive to a conversation. We're trying to understand where you are coming from and at the same time give you a glimpse into our world.

I have to say I despise the Pyra. Too easy to fly, too much firepower. You say all you have to do is get on it's blindside, but unless the Pyra pilot is blind and deaf, that's not "all there is to it." There is no "high-ceiling" skill cap for the Pyra, you aim it at what you want dead and it dies. It's front guns are incredibly well protected, it's the easiest ship to repair, and it's the easiest ship to shoot from considering there is a lot less compensation going on from turning the ship too fast. The other suggestion for countering the Pyra is to outright kill it. How do you do that? With another Pyra.

The "High-ceiling" cap has nothing to do with the function of the Pyra. You may have noticed the sluggish turn rate of the Pyra and massive blind spot. It's pretty trivial to shove a goldfish or squid in there, especially with baiting tactics. As for just killing it: See the discussion on the junker, pyra dogfights are a bit tangential (if two OPs go against eachother... that's not very OP now is it?). With a pyra the high skill ceiling is in positioning and tactics (as really, it is for every ship). Keeping your guns in the right place 100% of the time, and taking the correct approach which denies both enemies your blind spot can be pretty difficult.

I despise the Pyra for different reasons. I just don't have fun flying it because it's a pain the ass to maneuver, without the broadside satisfaction of the Galleon.

[Sammy B. T.]

Suffice to say that I don't agree with a single word of this and that I think your logic is incredibly falwed.

Go ooooooon

[Nidh]

I don't find the junker OP, its strafing tendencies make it harder for the gunners to compensate and is therefore not merely a point and shoot ship. It takes much more skill to fly a junker imo. As for Pyra dogfighting, if it takes the same ship to beat a ship isn't that OP? (That's excluding teamwork of course) And wasn't it agreed just a few posts before that any weaknesses of a ship can be remedied with pilot tools?

[Sammy B. T.]

It doesn't take a Pyra to beat a Pyra. The Admiral Quackbar eats them for breakfast, regularly.

[Nidh]

So does the Lyri, but that in no way makes the Goldfish OP. I would argue you're just too darn good of a pilot Sammy

[Sammy B. T.]

I am not saying the junker is OP, I am simply saying it counters a good ship. I honestly believe though when flying against a Pyra of equal piloting skill as myself, my Junker will win. Not always, but statistically significantly enough for me to view the Pyra as a counter.

[Surette]

If pyramidions were overpowered, competitive matches would consist of four pyramidions. Clearly that's not the case. Pyramidions are easy to fly and crew on, which is why they seem overpowered for many new players. As a pilot when I don't feel like doing as much work, I'll fly a pyramidion. The separation of hull/engines and balloon/guns allow for most beginner crews to be effective (once they understand this separation), plus forward guns are easy to aim.

That being said, it's certainly not overpowered and honestly I'm not sure if I can explain it any further than some of the posts here already have. It has a large, easy to hit hull, and doesn't maneuver easily. If you accidentally miss your target by overextending (which newer pilots often do, when they don't have a good grasp on how each ship moves), forget about it. Your enemy will easily take advantage of your massive blind spot and you'll be down in seconds. Easy to learn and a sturdy brawler yes, but easily countered once you realize other strategies exist.

And the argument that "just because it's possible to counter it doesn't mean it's overpowered" is silly. Everything will seem overpowered in this game if you don't know how to counter it. If I don't avoid a galleon's broadside, the galleon will seem like the most overpowered ship in the game. The same principle applies to the pyramidion. If it wasn't able to be countered, I'd agree that it's overpowered. But that's definitely not the case.