Author Topic: Stop punishing high levels  (Read 66151 times)

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2013, 07:54:54 pm »
Hello everyone Captain Phoenix here, Thought i'd pop in and put my ideas in.

So has anyone actually bothered to say that for right now, THERE ARE NO HIGH LEVEL CAPTAINS TO PLAY AGAINST!

THE ONLY REASON WE CANT DO THESE IS BECAUSE NO ONE IS HIGH ENOUGH.

you say we are farming against noobs.

Well 1 who else is there to play against, the higher tier captains usually play with friends or members of another clan, so basically you are now just pushing more boundaries between players and clans. I am not part of a clan I don't want to be part of a clan but to accomplish the feats required to do these achievements require players who are mostly likely in a clan. Why well because they played enough to get experienced then from a statistical point of view played enough times to meet a clan looking for members one of the leaders of the clan thought they were good and guess what they JOINED A CLAN.

2 The majority of players are 3 or less its not our fault we don't have dedicated players.

3 No one wants to play a high level if they see stacked teams they leave so we have to go against each other and split up the teams so ...GUESS WHAT WE KILL EACH OTHER AND THAT MEANS WE DON'T DO THE ACHIEVEMENT WHERE YOU HAVE TO WIN MATCHES AGAINST PLAYERS 13+ WITH NO DEATHS

SO THERE!

luv and kisses Captain Phoenix

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2013, 08:31:43 pm »
Worded perfectly Phoenix. Thank you.

In a perfect world, we have a mass of players all vying for high levels and dedicated to this game above all others. But this isn't perfect. What you have is only a few like me who are this dedicated. The rest are caught between multiple games and maybe 1 out of 50 really picks this up and goes all out like us.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 08:36:31 pm by Gilder »

Offline Surette

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2013, 01:55:42 am »
So has anyone actually bothered to say that for right now, THERE ARE NO HIGH LEVEL CAPTAINS TO PLAY AGAINST!

THE ONLY REASON WE CANT DO THESE IS BECAUSE NO ONE IS HIGH ENOUGH.
And...? This is the point. These are supposed to be endgame achievements, it's perfectly acceptable that they might not be possible to do yet, even if you're able to unlock the achievement. It should take a while, especially while there are still only a small number of high leveled captains.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2013, 02:46:57 am »
Sub 10s singing Muse praises while the high levels are fed up. Yeah that sounds about right. Till you've been there and done what must be done to get to where we are, you'll see this as a wonderful move. Once you get there, crewed with many great players who only played a freaken week and have never came back, you see the true insanity of forcing achievements like this. Your arguments are invalid till then.

I'd love it if we had a disposable playerbase with loads of high levels. But unless there is some drastic change in the game which keeps players coming back, this isn't going to happen. They ask about how to level, we tell them, then they whine because they don't see the incentive to level up. This is the problem when you have a generation which has grown up on games where leveling means weapon unlocks, or increases in the power of a character. If the leveling system was changed to a level to win system, we'd have loads more high levels in game because people would want to win. But those systems are terrible and I like that Muse hasn't done that.

You want mindless pub stomping at the cost of new players? That can be arranged since we'll eventually hit the wall and have nothing better to do. Yeah, thats really going to encourage them to stick with it. Just think about once Adventure Mode comes along and we have roving bands of pirates. Already a few wanting to create groups to do just this. Made up of vet players. Newbie cargo will be so theirs once they do.

Offline Pickle

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2013, 05:26:08 am »
Gilder, you can get in the game and encourage the mid-level players to work their way up.  That's what you can do.  I've been happy playing Firnfield with you and Pheonix, because it's good craic and you're happy because you're working your way towards an active achievement.  Personally, I have no active achievements that require DM matches - so these matches do nothing for advancing my own level.  But I'm short of CP matches for several achievements.  You guys play for achievements, I play for fun.  Most players are playing for shits and giggles and don't really care about the levels.  It's not a religion, there's no compulsion to dedicate yourself to it.

If you want some L10+ or L12+ competition, you're going to have to pull your heads out of your own asses and start thinking about how you can help get enough other players to the level where you can use them to advance your own level.  Your current achievement is to raise the level of other players, not yourself.  You can do it if you try.

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2013, 06:41:27 am »
Pickle have you heard what most people say about levels. They mean nothing to them most people only get to level 8-9 through playing in achievement games. However by the time you reach those levels you see leveling as pointless and say that a level means nothing, the only thing that means anything is to be good at the game.

Also to say its OUR responsibility to get level 10+ captains is kind of ridiculous. As I have said before most people who reach that level are in clans so its hard as hell playing against them and winning. Or they simple don't bother to get that high.

Most of you know that I crew with Twinkie D-Lite and PzychoDude. Both high level players one of the only reasons that they did some of the achievements is because I persuaded them to do it. Now the only reason I was able to persuade them is because we mostly never fly apart.

So as I've said before you are pushing boundary's between players if you think Muse did the right move here. 

Offline Pickle

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2013, 07:19:47 am »
Phoenix.. you're shaving a gnats whisker every time you ask someone to help you gain an achievement by playing a map you need, you end up a tiny fraction closer to the point where you become blocked by a lack of high level competition.  However, if you cooperate with another player you can probably get them two or three achievements further up the levels in the space of a few games.  If you worked on your Gunner and Engineer levels as hard as you worked the Pilot levels, you'd be helping ANOTHER Captain to work his way up the levels.

Anyway, where do you want the level cap to be?  Is fifteen not high enough?  it is achievable, just not overnight.  This isn't something where you can set out and get 50 ram kills in 24 hours.

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2013, 07:23:17 am »
Pickle, can I ask you a question seems though you seem so intent on saying these are possible things

Will you try to get to level 13?

Offline Pickle

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2013, 07:35:50 am »
If it comes through normal game play, yes.

But I'm not going to do it the way you have done.  I'll focus on getting ram kills or defends, but not to the extent of an all-out offensive to get that one achievement fully completed in 12 hours.  And I know that's the way you do it, because you're always onto the next achievement the following day.

I'm currently a whisker of L9, and with a chunk of almost completed achievements towards L10.  But I'm doing this in regular games and for the most part with PUGs.  Because I don't have a clan, and you'll say you don't - but you've a regular achievement chasing crew and an extended occasional high level crew you can call on pretty much every time you log in.  That's as good as having a clan, although you don't want to think of it as such.  You, Twinkie and Psycho have a higher average level than any clan I can think of, so you can't go blaming it on clans.  Is there any clan in the game that has a focus on achievements and levels?

Without checking back at the exact achievements, you'll need four L13 Captains for L13+ DMs.  You and Gilder is two L12s to start with - that's halfway there, and I know you're not the only L12 Captains although I can't think of the others off the top of my head.  You'll be pushing through L14 before that blocks you.  For L10+ matches, there must be over a dozen players that currently qualify and twice as many more that could be there in a couple of weeks with only minor assistance.

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2013, 07:45:44 am »
Well OK you say that if they are available to get by playing normally you would do it. Well isn't that being a bit contradictory? We only want to do achievements that are complete able in ordinary games or did you lose us somewhere? I thought the name of this post was "stop punishing high levels" so by saying that you would only do them if they could be done in ordinary games is what we are trying to say.

Secondly being in a clan and playing with a crew of friends is different with a clan you can do your own games if I really want to do an achievement game I've got to find friends online and persuade them to waste there time doing them. Of course no clan is based purely on achievements what clan would be but if they need to do something how easy is it to ask a whole damn clan to help you out not 2 friends.

Finally there are only 5 level 12's to my knowledge and only 1 level 13. So if we really have to do achieves based around beating 2 level 13 captains then HOW? the only reason we aren't getting to level 13 is because of these achievements then it wouldnt be a problem then when there is a bigger player base and they implement these achievements then other people can fight us so that they can also level its up to muse to change this stupid thing right here.


Offline Pickle

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2013, 07:56:24 am »
Phoenix, what impossible achievements are blocking you from L13 or L14?  You're sat at L12 now.

The L13+ might eventually be blocking you from L14, but is really only an absolute block for L15 as I see the achievements.

L7+ games can't be a block, there's plenty L7+ Captains about.  L10+ might be but there are enough L10+ at the moment and more not far off.  L13+ is definitely a block but that can't be the one blocking anyone right now.

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2013, 08:00:53 am »
Pickle one achievement or another can be completed before you do some of the others. what we are saying is there aren't level 7 or 10 or 13 we could do a survey of all the games and find out when the best possible time to find these people and start playing like that but I just want to play normally while feeling that I have accomplished something not just wasted another 20 minutes of my life

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2013, 08:02:03 am »
Also can you tell me whether or not you understand our argument here because you don't seem to get our point here

Offline Pickle

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2013, 08:20:27 am »
I understand your argument Phoenix, we've had it in-game as well.  But I also understand the Muse perspective that catering to an extremely small number of players who keep pushing the level cap every time it's raised is a contest they just can't win.  They either set a level cap and stick to it (they could have done so at L12) and then you, Gilder et al have nothing to chase after, or what they have done is set a really challenging level cap that you won't achieve over night.  Or, of course they could just cater to your whim and increase the level cap every month with a bunch of rinse'n'repeat achievements that repeat what you've already done before.  I'm sure that would bore you very quickly.

You're not happy with the option Muse has chosen.  But to be far to Muse, I can't think of a single option that you might be happy with.  I don't think you have an idea of a long term option that you'd be happy with.  By your own numbers there are only six players close to being affected by this.  Can the six of you agree on a better alternative?

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: Stop punishing high levels
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2013, 08:39:08 am »
Yes I think we can and I have spoken to Gilder so we are going to post our views on how this can be changed we understand that they need a long term achievement basis but we keep saying they don't have the players to do it and by implementing these you are pushing away newer players (who we need) if they see these achievements then what do you think they will say? If we are complaining and we've been through the other achievements then something has got to be wrong.