Stop punishing high levels

[Clara Skyborn]

On a largely unrelated note, this patch will also change all capture point objectives to a simple "capture" while we rework our capture point event system to be a little more sensible and consistent. Sorry for the ongoing confusion on that one.

There's nothing wrong with defend achievements.  What's wrong is having to use a ****ing Galleon to do it (no apologies for implied language, I do feel strongly about this).  Thinking that the "defend" part is the larger part of the problem fails to address the masochistic decision to force players to use the least appropriate ship for a CP game.  It implies you're fiddling with the system without making an effort to understand the player perceived problem.  And TWO achievements specify Galleon and Defend.  Remove the Galleon requirement, it's easy to rack up Defends with any other ship.  Change it to Junker if you want to specify ship type, it's far more suitable than Galleon for that role.

Actually, the main issue here is that the current capture event system has some internal inconsistencies and uses misleading wording. The "defend" event, as many of you have observed, is actually what might more properly be called "neutralize," switching an enemy-controlled point to neutral. The "defend" achievements were designed with a more sensible meaning of the word in mind -- actually preventing an enemy from taking a point you already control, a defensive role which a Galleon would be suited for. That event, which isn't actually called out in the current system, would be the enemy's failed "neutralize" attempt.

It was a question of either changing the achievements or fixing the events. Fixing the events was the preferred course of action, but unfortunately until now it's fallen by the wayside, so the inconsistency has stood. So in the meantime, while we work on it, we're just simplifying the achievements to the least ambiguous state to remove that particular source of pain until we can make the system work the way we want it to.

[Imagine]

I'm a level 6 Engineer and Pilot since some months already, and it doesn't look at all like I'm going to reach level 7 with any of those. Because the current, comparatively low, achievements require things of me that don't fit my playstyle. I hardly ever play on "professional" ships that would require me to bring a buff hammer, with the newbie crews I'm usually with I can't go away from Spanner and Mallet.

Oh, you can. Pretty easily, I might say. I went from 5 to 7 in engineer in probably less than two weeks, almost all of it flying in pug games. Was it with ideal loadout? No, obviously not, but it's very very doable.

[Pickle]

On a largely unrelated note, this patch will also change all capture point objectives to a simple "capture" while we rework our capture point event system to be a little more sensible and consistent. Sorry for the ongoing confusion on that one.

There's nothing wrong with defend achievements.  What's wrong is having to use a ****ing Galleon to do it (no apologies for implied language, I do feel strongly about this).  Thinking that the "defend" part is the larger part of the problem fails to address the masochistic decision to force players to use the least appropriate ship for a CP game.  It implies you're fiddling with the system without making an effort to understand the player perceived problem.  And TWO achievements specify Galleon and Defend.  Remove the Galleon requirement, it's easy to rack up Defends with any other ship.  Change it to Junker if you want to specify ship type, it's far more suitable than Galleon for that role.

Actually, the main issue here is that the current capture event system has some internal inconsistencies and uses misleading wording. The "defend" event, as many of you have observed, is actually what might more properly be called "neutralize," switching an enemy-controlled point to neutral. The "defend" achievements were designed with a more sensible meaning of the word in mind -- actually preventing an enemy from taking a point you already control, a defensive role which a Galleon would be suited for. That event, which isn't actually called out in the current system, would be the enemy's failed "neutralize" attempt.

It was a question of either changing the achievements or fixing the events. Fixing the events was the preferred course of action, but unfortunately until now it's fallen by the wayside, so the inconsistency has stood. So in the meantime, while we work on it, we're just simplifying the achievements to the least ambiguous state to remove that particular source of pain until we can make the system work the way we want it to.

[sarcasm]

.. ..and Capture is sooooo much easier than Defend with a Galleon.. ..

[/sarcasm]


Eventually, after a couple of months of asking we did get a definition of what was meant by Defend a while ago.  It may be surprising, but on this occasion it's not the language error that's the problem.  Leave it as Defend, but please change the ship requirement.

[RearAdmiralZill]

I've won too many CP's in a galleon to believe it's utter crap in them. It's not the slowest ship, after all.

[Pickle]

I've won too many CP's in a galleon to believe it's utter crap in them. It's not the slowest ship, after all.

Winning and Capping/Defending are two different things.

I can win with a Galleon, but I ain't the one on the team getting the Defends/Caps.  Whilst it may not be the slowest, it's certainly the most sluggish in the game - combining poor speed with worse manoeuvrability.  Trying to get Defends on Scrap, I've even found that if your balloon is popped you can drop a Galleon down the back of that big plate.  And then your stuck, until you can wiggle down to just the right spot, and get your balloon deflated enough to squeeze through whilst retaining enough lift not to sink.  I'm getting extremely frustrated with this achievement, trying to do it the right way and not set-up a fake farming match.  I find the suggested "fix" less than satisfying.  Keep achievements for Defend, it encourages a more active approach to CP matches and encourages a team to try and push the opposing team off the CP.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Well Scrap is different in that is has that sole point, making it more or less awkward.

I can win with a Galleon, but I ain't the one on the team getting the Defends/Caps.

Might just be play style then, because I do plenty of both in my galleon.

I will agree that when it comes to getting defends on maps with just one point, your options get kind of weird in terms of how to get defends. If you get the point first, then you'd want to "give it back" which isn't how you should be playing that. The point rarely changes hands often, so then you are left with doing these many times over.

[Pickle]

Could there have been a worse combination than Galleon and Scrap though?  for Defends.

Any ship but Galleon, or any of the other maps but Scrap (Anglean or Refinery).. but to put both together is reminiscent of some of the default loadouts for newbies that someone gained such masochistic glee from..

[RearAdmiralZill]

The only issue I see with achievements is how they (relatively) stay the same while the maps evolve

This is why I say this. Back in the day, when Scrap was 1800 points to take, no moving clouds or storms, and a bigger field to cap in, this achievement was much easier to do in a galleon. Now you have the same achievement, on a much different map mechanically, and it had gotten much harder. Not impossible, but hard to the point of asking "why has it not evolved as well?"

[Clara Skyborn]

Ok, ok. Ship requirements for the Galleon will be removed from all capture objectives, potentially subject to change when the capture event system evolves.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Lol, not my intended goal, but it'll make some people happy I suppose. Thanks Jess.

[RomanKar]

How awesome is Muse?

Salute!!!

[Pickle]

Woo-hoo!!

[Captain Smollett]

Jess, you're amazing.

Just to throw my two cents in here, the reason why defends (as in neutralize the point) were so cruel was that if I was playing really well, the enemy would never even cap it.  For me to finish the scrap achievement, I actually had to play pug games and ask my fellow captains to let the enemy cap it, so I could go back and neutralize it. 

I basically had to stop trying to win a match many many times so I could get one of the earliest achievements in the game. 

I guess at the end of the day, achievements don't matter; but it does feels nice to "achieve them" and I think I understand Guilder's frustration when there are ones that just can't be finished or done in a sensible way.

[JaegerDelta]

well, the way i see it. you cant be "punishing" somebody with somthing that is completely optional yeah some cheeves are hard to get. But, so what? like, you dont have to do it.  if you want all the unlocks, well then great, do the cheeves. i just dont get the frustration when, lets be honest, everyone is just gonna farm for them anyway .

[Squidslinger Gilder]

You guys demonizing me like I'm playing only for achievements and nothing else. If that was the case I wouldn't even play this game. For one, the achievements are way too deathmarchy for my tastes. You have to do impossible amounts of matches, kills, or weird combinations to get it and I see no point in investing time in a game which does that. I've seen games like that and they are stupid. I've never dedicated any time into them. They are games with bored designers who cannot think of anything better but to make achievements with some astronomical numbers. Achievements are afterthoughts in those games and the dev could care less about them.

But here it is tied to a rank, to a costume, to a title. For the love of the game, I want to see all that it has. I want to see what that next title is, what that next costume or unlock has in store. So I'm the bad guy for wanting to finish it? Fine, label me a Beater and keep whining. Take that away and it is just mindless pub stomping. No fun in that, I scare away enough lowbie pilots as it is. When I capped before, I didn't stop. I kept playing but I played my other classes more. I set goals. A goal on them was to hit level 8 since that was where the costume was. Now I guess it could be level 13 once I get back to it. My desire to do so has just been weakened with this.

This isn't anything unusual. I leveled in BF3 up to get my P90. Once I got that, my playtime decreased a lot. Heck I don't even play it anymore. Paid for all the expansions but have never played Endgame. That was my goal, to get my P90. I got it, played the heck out of it and enjoyed it. Ventured into other classes more but eventually cut back on time. Have absolutely no drive to hit max level in that.

What Muse did is basically putting a brick wall in front of a goal with a sign that says, wait here for others to catch up. They don't play the game as much and have no concept of how hard it is to get even to 10. I've done it and I do not see low levels committing to the game long enough to do it, specially not in pilot class which is required. Pilot is the hardest class but all the achievements are dependent on high level pilots. Now your Cogs players or other competitive players, I see them doing it but their play time is heavily skewed. Some I do not see except on weekends either. This leads to community arranged private farming events in the future. Which personally takes the fun out of things. Arranging victories or defeats with others just to get one rank. Come on.