Author Topic: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling  (Read 8941 times)

Offline Seamus S

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Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« on: June 24, 2013, 01:03:27 pm »
Two new medium weapons: If I were a GOI captain living in that world, I would find a way to bolt two Gatling guns together and set them on my medium mount. Likewise, twin flamers (with a bit more range and ammo capacity) would make a terrifying medium weapon.

Since we need more medium weapons (and we desperately need a medium piercing weapon) I would put these two concepts up for consideration. They have the advantage of using existing mechanics. They wouldn't even change the meta all that much (aside from giving more choices) since you can already run dual flamers or dual gats if you want. It would give galleons and goldfish some interesting new options. I'm all for more choices, so let's hear it for fire breathing goldfish!

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 01:10:28 pm »
Quote
(and we desperately need a medium piercing weapon)

Actually, we really don't need a medium piercing gun. That is unless you want a more powerful gat/flak equivalent on a galleon, killing ships in mere seconds. Not to come off too blunt, but we really don't need that.

A heavy flamethrower though, I could go for all day.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 01:30:23 pm »
This game could use a medium piercing weapon but I would prefer it to be difficult to use. The medium weapons seem to be a high risk/reward alternatives to light weapons. More damage per shot, longer reloads, slower projectiles. Having a rapid fire large capacity medium weapon (Hwacha doesn't count) would disrupt the game balance.

If there were to be a piercing based medium weapon I would like it to be a Balista, or rail gun. Some thing single shot with a long reload timer and impressive range.

I do like the name "Hellmounth" for a flame thrower.

Offline Nidh

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 01:33:27 pm »
Instead of a fully dedicated piercing weapon, how about a weapon with very small, secondary piercing damage

Offline -Muse- Cullen

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 01:58:47 pm »
I'm all for a medium-flamer! Imagine...

Turning the ship around for one last full throttle ram in a pyramidion and suddenly... A belch of flames erupts from the crippled spire that engulfs your screen in a cleansing fire. The pilot's eyes melt and drip out of their skulls, the engineer's tools pool at their feet, and the gunners ignite immediately with all of the gunpowder on their bandolier. The engineers do their best to repair the hull by whacking their teeth against the hull pipes, but its no use- its all over.

-Not for the faint of heart-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZNiSHBb_s

Offline naufrago

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 02:02:46 pm »
Rear-mounted heavy flamer, suddenly you have an extra rocket engine...

Side-mounted heavy flamer, suddenly your boat can strafe...

Offline Sgt. Spoon

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 02:40:21 pm »
Rear-mounted heavy flamer, suddenly you have an extra rocket engine...

Side-mounted heavy flamer, suddenly your boat can strafe...

Actually... that would be pretty damn cool. A really powerful flamer that not only incenderates everything in it's path, but also pushes you in the opposite direction of your aim.

Offline Seamus S

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 02:45:36 pm »
This game could use a medium piercing weapon but I would prefer it to be difficult to use. The medium weapons seem to be a high risk/reward alternatives to light weapons. More damage per shot, longer reloads, slower projectiles. Having a rapid fire large capacity medium weapon (Hwacha doesn't count) would disrupt the game balance.

If there were to be a piercing based medium weapon I would like it to be a Balista, or rail gun. Some thing single shot with a long reload timer and impressive range.

I do like the name "Hellmounth" for a flame thrower.

The Gat/FLak would be tougher to pull off on a Galleon. The Medium Version of the flack cannon has range minimums to deal with. You'd have to be at exactly the right range for the gat and the flak (not too close, not too far)

More than that though, I hate seeing game balancing issues taking the place of common sense issues. This game world insists that a weapon like the gatling gun exists and that it performs how it performs. Given those assumptions why would anyone NOT want two of them on the side of a Galleon if they could put them there.  What would prevent them from putting them there? The enemy pirates are gonna complain that you're OP? Seriously? It's related to the same problem I have with artificially restricted firing arcs and gun placement in general. It doesn't feel authentic (I don't really care about realistic, but I like things to be internally consistent to the world i'm playing in.)  If something is easy to do and logical within the game world  and you can't do it because of balance issues, then it's poor game design at a higher stage. It's something that needs to be addressed further up the chain.

*Edit, This was more of a reply to Zil, but I quoted the wrong post. Still applies.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 02:50:21 pm by Seamus S »

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Offline Seamus S

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 02:57:33 pm »
Kind of making my point for me.. this isn't ~Authentic~ It DOES NOT make sense given what we are being asked to assume about the world. Ask me to believe in huge, flying, steampunk airships? Fine. Ask me to accept that they use gasbags dozens of times too small for their mass? Fine.  Gats exist in the world. Their properties are well known and used by IG people every day.  Ask me to believe that a person who uses these Gatlings every day would NOT try to stick two of them onto one of his larger gun mounts? Not Fine. Further, ask me to believe that he wouldn't take one of those useless light weapons on a different ship and shift it's firing arc to something that actually makes sense? Not fine. Ask me to believe that any sane engineer on a squid wouldn't rip up those stupid left and right engine catwalks and turn them so they are attached up near the rear gun port for ease of engine access? Not fine.

If the best argument against doing something simple and logical is "Because, um...balance" Then there are larger problems in play.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 03:01:21 pm by Seamus S »

Offline Nidh

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 03:40:57 pm »
Balancing engineering routes and gun arcs is completely fine. I don't see your problem here, you want all of the guns to turn 360 degrees around, do 400 damage a bullet and be able to repair everything by pressing a single button? I'm exaggerating yes, but seriously that doesn't sound like much fun to me, why not have a gun with full explosive and piercing damage? That would be completely broken.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 03:42:29 pm by Nidh »

Offline Plasmarobo

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2013, 03:50:56 pm »
Well, weapon arcs make sense because of reloading equipment, ammo storage, gun weight, recoil dampeners, heat sinks (not to be confused with the ammo type), fuel lines/powerlines. And the big one: Cost. A gat will be cheap man, a heavy flak? Not so much.
Outside of game balance, the flak would be VASTLY more damaging than a simple gatling gun.

But yeah, I have no idea why the weapon placement on a spire is what it is. (The Galleon makes sense because, you know, port side. Docking equipment and etc.). 

I don't understand the problem you have with the Squid engines. The current setup is probably done to minimize drag and so forth.
I think everything is pretty consistent, real engineers don't always make the best decisions. You ultimately do have to bow to balance, but you can come up with an in-world reason for everything that makes perfect sense if you look deep enough, just give Muse more time to flush out the background.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 03:58:59 pm »
The end goal is to have fun. It is harder to have fun with a game system that is out of balance than one that doesn't meet up with your expectations of what is realistic or not.

Realistically there should be nothing that would stop goldfish manufacturers from canting the side guns 45 degrees forward. The Goldfish would be a much more effective ship if it could get two side Gatling guns and the main gun on a single target at the same time. Realistically any shipwright or captain with a penchant for ship alteration would do this. But balance wise this would give the goldfish an unfair advantage, and the game would be filled with Metafish.

Realistically there is enough room on the galleon for 6 people, and probably an extra light gun or two. That thing is huge. It can afford dead weight like carpeting, wooden safety rails, and a crows nest (nobody uses).  There is even space for it some extra guns, that whole forward facing gap on the gun deck would be perfect for another light gun. Heck, put two down there and make it as much a threat as pyramidion.

Offline Seamus S

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 04:36:13 pm »
Again, kinda making my point about the game having larger issues. I mean, why wouldn't you shift the arc of those goldfish side mounts? If a ship builder wants to sacrifice side and rear coverage for a stronger forward punch, let them. You can get a medium and two light guns to bear on a spire. You can get two mediums and a light on a galleon. How come the goldfish gets the short end?

I guess if I can't answer the question "why would a person who was in this world be or not be able to do something." then it makes it difficult for me to believe in the world. These sorts of believability issues will become more and more important as Muse moves towards adventure mode.

Oh, also, a dual gat would very likely have a longer reload time. It would take twice as long to reload, as you're basically reloading two weapons. This is an example of something that would aid balance while still being totally plausable within the game universe.

Offline Imagine

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 04:44:26 pm »
If the best argument against doing something simple and logical is "Because, um...balance" Then there are larger problems in play.
Sorry, but if you're unable to accept game balance as something that needs to happen in said games because it's not how you would do thing in real life, then you should probably re-examine your point of view on games in general.