Lumberjack Discussion

[Letus]

I love you.

Personally, I feel that this gun isn't overpowered. An overpowered weapon is something like a 'noob tube' from Counter Strike... Point and click like crazy leads to 8 semi-auto sprays of pellets... two shots kill a player, so the other 6 are for good measure. The LJ needs more skill than that, and it rewards the player a whole lot for being able to do it. If it actually did damage to the hull, then there would be a problem. However... it only pops the balloon, which is a repairable thing. I hate it when I take fire from an experienced LJ gunner, but that's just how it is in my eyes... A difficult gun to use has a high reward for learning it.

Well back when the Lumberjack was new, and had no arming time, it was called the Noob Tube if you remember correctly.  Just about every new player had that gun on their goldfish...granted I may be at fault for that way back when...

Then they "fixed" it, and that gun got barely used afterwards.

You ask me, there is almost no correct gunner build for the lumberjack, mainly because people forget that gunners have 4 shots instead of 3...me, I use a loadout where I don't need to use the regular shot--but I might change that as my build means Incendiary has to cover 110m to 220m....which is a long shot for that round.

But basically one can use lesmok for long, regular for mid-long, heavy or greased for mid-short, and incendiary for short...
same goes for the heavy flak...

why am I talking...

[Mattilald Anguisad]

I'm throwin all your LJ are broken into unprovable basket after the quter-finals, TYWM. LJ gets onto the same neigberhood as OP is only if it's mounted on a galeon with another long range weapon. Any galleon is countered with sufficient amount of mercs.

-- also the Blue spawn clearing in the canyons is too big for heavy flak (typhon's shells kept exploding short of the pollaris when we were at very long distange).

[Echoez]

I'm throwin all your LJ are broken into unprovable basket after the quter-finals, TYWM. LJ gets onto the same neigberhood as OP is only if it's mounted on a galeon with another long range weapon. Any galleon is countered with sufficient amount of mercs.

-- also the Blue spawn clearing in the canyons is too big for heavy flak (typhon's shells kept exploding short of the pollaris when we were at very long distange).

My only complaint is that it looks like that in this game in particular the mere presense of such a weapon slowed down the game so much I wanted to grab my hair and tear it off my head out of frustration.

Still not sure if its damage should be toned down, maybe if Flechette did less damage on the hull.. cause right now the LJ chews through it like nothing else it seems. I still believe it should pop a balloon in less than a clip though, then again if you nerf Flechette damage on the hull you are also nerfing the Carronades. It's a tough one.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Still not sure if its damage should be toned down, maybe if Flechette did less damage on the hull.. cause right now the LJ chews through it like nothing else it seems. I still believe it should pop a balloon in less than a clip though, then again if you nerf Flechette damage on the hull you are also nerfing the Carronades. It's a tough one

Eh I shudder when people propose this, because it (flechette dmg vs hull armor) was already nerfed once fairly recently. I don't have much issue with lumber eating my hull armor too fast. It's only going to get your hull and balloon in any significant way so when taking barrages from it you put your engies there. That said, sitting in the line of sight of a lumber is a mistake. Be a moving target, or you better be disabling that gun.

[Echoez]

Eh I shudder when people propose this, because it (flechette dmg vs hull armor) was already nerfed once fairly recently. I don't have much issue with lumber eating my hull armor too fast. It's only going to get your hull and balloon in any significant way so when taking barrages from it you put your engies there. That said, sitting in the line of sight of a lumber is a mistake. Be a moving target, or you better be disabling that gun.

That is true, I'm also not best informed about changes on flechette, not being here myself when they were implemented, so I didn't know much of them.

Personaly I didn't have many issues with Lumbers while I played in normal matches, careful piloting avoided them all together while some times I messed up I got shot to the ground. Isn't this a bit on the extremes though? Avoid all together or simply die, dunno, I just felt like there could be a middle ground then again my only concern was about the tourney matches and how much they did slow down due to it, but I guess the weapon is mostly fine in normals.

I realy shouldn't discuss balance.. v .v

[RearAdmiralZill]

The reason matches like that last so long, is people being scared to lose (my opinion).

Even when you're getting hit by a lumber and falling, you should be working to get out of its arc. Funny enough, its downward arc isn't great, so it can hinder itself that way to a point. Getting under the lumber is a good way to get away, though risky since if it pops your balloon, you're already low. Once you get close to him though, you force his movement. He has to move to get arcs and keep distance. So move him to your advantage, and there you have it.

And really, all heavy weapons have that extreme effect. Carronade does the same thing lumber does, just in your face. Hwacha can disable everything in one well placed barrage, and flak can insta-kill you if your armor is down.

And discussing balance is perfectly fine. Just know I offer my argument as just that, a different opinion, and not to shut you down ;p

[Echoez]

The reason matches like that last so long, is people being scared to lose (my opinion).

Even when you're getting hit by a lumber and falling, you should be working to get out of its arc. Funny enough, its downward arc isn't great, so it can hinder itself that way to a point. Getting under the lumber is a good way to get away, though risky since if it pops your balloon, you're already low. Once you get close to him though, you force his movement. He has to move to get arcs and keep distance. So move him to your advantage, and there you have it.

And really, all heavy weapons have that extreme effect. Carronade does the same thing lumber does, just in your face. Hwacha can disable everything in one well placed barrage, and flak can insta-kill you if your armor is down.

And discussing balance is perfectly fine. Just know I offer my argument as just that, a different opinion, and not to shut you down ;p

Oh no I wouldn't think of that, I realy appreciate it to be honest and you are indeed right about Heavy guns being extremes. As for the LJ, even on my Spire, I have noticed that if they get hit by it, they will go way down, making it kinda harder for your gunner to aim at them and even the Spire's enchanced vertical velocity sometimes isn't enough to keep a proper firing angle without bringing yourself near the ground as well.

[Letus]

I'm throwin all your LJ are broken into unprovable basket after the quter-finals, TYWM. LJ gets onto the same neigberhood as OP is only if it's mounted on a galeon with another long range weapon. Any galleon is countered with sufficient amount of mercs.

-- also the Blue spawn clearing in the canyons is too big for heavy flak (typhon's shells kept exploding short of the pollaris when we were at very long distange).

Pre 1.2.1 patch, just faced a merc, flak, and lumber galleon with my Lumberfish.  What did I do?  Charged under them and got my lumberjack to point straight up with incendiary rounds in.

Granted, I can't get that 110m close range in with incendiary now with that now -35% speed...

[Morblitz]

Looking in game it's actually -25%, so it's even worse.

[Letus]

Looking in game it's actually -25%, so it's even worse.

Nah, it's -35%, did the sandbox research and everything (had to with my thing out there.)  It aims roughly higher than the heatsink clip, and the heatsink clip is -30%....
or was..
If they changed that, it's not in the patchnotes.

The difference between incendiary and heatsink now is roughly...7m...


The only real "pro" I got from that is now I don't have to debate between changing burst rounds to heavy clip for the ranges between regular shot and incendiary....

[Morblitz]

So... are the tooltips incorrect? I think heatsink says its something like -25-20%, although I'd have to double check that, and I'm pretty sure the tooltip for incendiary says -25%.

Thanks for checking it out, though!

[Crafeksterty]

Has anyone encountered the lumberjack completely demolishing hull armor? The ingame description does not really explain this. Flachette (baloon dmg) and Shatter (Component dmg) No piercing, no explosion.

Yett it kills better than the twin carronade that says it has better stats on its shots. And 2 quick strong shots should be stronger than 6 not as quick or strong shots. Yet it isnt.

[N-Sunderland]

It kills hull armour because flechette's modifier against armour is 0.35, and the lumber does 300 flechette. So that's 115 armour damage per shot once you add the shatter. By comparaison, the merc does 172.5 armour damage per shot, and the heavy carronade does 163.

[Captain Smollett]

I'm guessing this guy just played against Morblitz.  Normally the LJ doesn't devistate hull armor... unless you're playing against Morblitz and are between 300 and 2500 meters from his gun.

[Sammy B. T.]

Normally the LJ doesn't devistate hull armor... unless you're playing against Morblitz and are between 300 and 2500 meters from his gun.

Thanks for specifying. I was about to be worried we were talking about a large stretch of area.