Author Topic: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?  (Read 9700 times)

Offline redria

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What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« on: April 18, 2014, 12:34:50 pm »
Question 2 in what appears to be a series of questions begging for TL;DR answers.

For each class, what qualities does it take to excel?

I have an answer for pilot, but not for engineer or gunner. This answer depends heavily on the concept of a macro level for a match. By this I mean a focus on the entire match including ships, loadouts, ship locations, ally and crew abilities and coordination, etc. The macro level of a match includes everything, while a micro level is, for instance, take care of the balloon and shoot your gun when necessary. The micro level does not require a player to know where the ally is, or where the second enemy is. It allows a player to focus on one thing specifically and excel at that.

I think that to be a good pilot, you must first have a good understanding of the macro level of a match. You have to be able to see how each ship can be used, even if you wouldn't do it yourself. This allows you to understand how your ship should be moved and positioned in order to take advantage of your team's strengths and your opponent's weaknesses.

Secondly you have to have a good understanding of your ship's physics and the gun arcs of your ship. This will allow you to use your ship effectively on a macro level. No amount of understanding the match will help you if you can't physically keep up with it.

Third, you need to have good decision making abilities. This ties into both the macro understanding and personal ship understanding. To be a good pilot, you must look at a situation, understand it, understand your capabilities, and make a decision.

Finally, you need to have the coordination abilities to make sure your crew is following along with your plan. With a good crew, this can be negated as they are usually quick to understand what you are doing when your ship starts moving. However, any strange decisions you make will require extra coordination as your crew might not glimpse the macro level of the match while focusing on a task you set for them. It is the pilot's responsibility to keep the crew updated on the current strategy, even if the strategy is changing by the second.

Mentally, I would call piloting the most mentally challenging class. This is not to say that gunning and engineering aren't just as important or critical when it comes to split second decisions. But all other classes call on you to physically do something, while piloting places you in one spot and allows you to look in any direction while controlling the ship. You are required to do one thing and one thing only: move the ship. With this sole focus, you are given a much broader opportunity to pay attention to the match as a whole to be able to understand the match on a macro level.

Step by step, the best pilot should be able to quickly run through:
  • note (possible) locations of enemies
  • note location of ally
  • note status of ship components
  • note location of self
  • note momentum of self
  • compare own current operational/soon-to-be-operational guns to same of enemies
  • select the optimal target for range/arcs/ease of shot/advantage
  • communicate change of target if target has changed
  • communicate incoming threat if situation indicates it
  • alter ship momentum to increase effectiveness of own guns and decrease effectiveness of enemy guns without unduly damaging own ship to do so
  • evaluate effectiveness of any changes made
  • evaluate if any dramatic changes would give an increase in your effectiveness
  • repeat
Good pilots should be constantly running through this mentally to keep putting themselves and their team in a more and more advantageous position.
You can see that half of a pilot's job is to simply observe himself, his ally, and his enemies. This is the macro side of the match where you have to know everything and make the decisions based on everything.

Offline Cheesy Crackers

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 06:01:16 am »
I won't add much for now, maybe later on, but I think one of the best parts of being a pilot is experimenting with builds. I just find mixing things up (Serious or not) to be fun and an interesting challenge :P. You can also end up finding some funky builds.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 11:35:27 am »
A good pilot need to be able to anticipate  where there ships need to be 2-4 seconds before it needs to be there so that the ship can be accelerated/turned. Good spacial thinking is also a plus.
A good gunner need to be familiar with shot drop and leading for each weapon. They also need to be able to eyeball the weapon ranges.
A good engineer needs to be a good at time management and be able to prioritize based on the situation.
A good crew member needs to be able to trust the other crew members to carry out their assigned task and not overlap responsibility.
A good captain is a lot of things beyond just pilot. Redria's OP covered most of them, but in my mind the skill set of pilot is different than the skill set of captain.

Offline Mod Josie

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 10:45:56 am »
In terms of engineering, if I ever get onto being advanced with the pubs and people I pick up - I say this:

Think about what's going to be happening 10 to 20 seconds from now. For instance, The Junker to the south has Gatling guns on the side that's facing you. They're about to be in range, so you should be mindful of the hull armour. If you can't get there in time, send your crewmate over there before it starts to run low on health.

In any class, communication, teamwork and foresight are essential - but then I guess that was the point of the game :P
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 10:47:54 am by Jacob Fii »

Offline redria

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 11:02:05 am »
A good pilot need to be able to anticipate  where there ships need to be 2-4 seconds before it needs to be there so that the ship can be accelerated/turned. Good spacial thinking is also a plus.
[...]
A good captain is a lot of things beyond just pilot. Redria's OP covered most of them, but in my mind the skill set of pilot is different than the skill set of captain.
Do you think the captain and pilot can be separated?

Technically, as a pilot you only need to be in control of the physical location of the ship,
Since you have less moving and multi-tasking to do than an engineer or gungineer, and since you are able to take a much broader view of scenario than a gunner, it usually makes sense for a pilot to be captain. But those alone don't require that your pilot (even an engineer pilot) must be the captain.

I think the pilot and captain positions are interlocked since the captain gets to talk to the other ship, and coordinating ships is much better done real time instead of relayed through a crewmember.

Or perhaps you mean to say that great captain =/= great pilot, and vice versa. There is a difference between the cross-ship mid-game strategizing that can make a team good, and the piloting abilities that make a ship good. The best teams are when 2 great pilots work as great captains together.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 11:50:39 am »
I think the roll of pilot and captain require two different skill sets. In essence the pilot/captain's are playing two games at once, which is why the roll is so hard. Some times when I join a on a noob ship as an engineer, I will direct the pilot and crew on the best tactical choices. In essence I captain from an engineering position. It is even harder than Captaining from the pilot position because the engineer doesn't get the best view of things. I do not advocate this as a play style because it really sucks. However when the entire crew is flailing around uncertain of what to do next some one has to impose a order into the situation. That person is the captain regardless of what slot they took in the lobby.

Offline shaelyn

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 12:29:55 am »
I think there may be three roles here that are being lumped into two for the pilot/captain, but at the same time this is largely going to reiterate what Hamster said:

-ability to work the ship into a good position for its gunners, and out of a bad position from the opposite team's gunners (strictly pilot)
-ability to work with the other ships on the team (captain, and probably should be pilot too)
-ability to direct the crew

now, if the pilot/captain can manage all of that, that truly makes a great one.  but that is a lot to handle.
I realize this isn't going to work in most cases, but when my fiance's piloting/captaining a pyra, I'll play either gunner or gungineer on the top deck, and act as his "First Mate" - I'll keep an eye on the crew and the components that're getting damaged, and I'll direct the crew for him, and keep people on their stations.  it has worked pretty well for us so far.

so on a related note, I'm going to add to this: there's something yet to be mentioned here, and that's what makes a great crew.  for some, it's realizing when direction is needed, and knowing enough about all the different jobs and what works effectively on the ship you're on (in short, experience), and to be able to dispense that knowledge (without being a jerk about it).  for others, it's going to be how they handle the direction they're given, or otherwise knowing when to request direction for themselves or other members of the crew, and when to ask for help from other crew members.
and then there's above and beyond, when a crew member understands the ship and their role on it and kicks butt at it so well that if they need any direction, it's very limited.  generally, you get a crew that understands their role well, whether instinctually or by direction, that's what wins matches.



now, a second for gunner.  I had a really awesome match as gunner recently, and a couple of terrible matches today, and I've been going over what worked and what didn't.  it seems largely that the matches that don't go well are the ones in which the crew doesn't have as good direction.  in one of those terrible matches, an engineer manned the only gun that's pointed at an enemy as I approached it, and I'm left standing around and repairing the hull as it needs it (a job they could do way more effectively if they have the right equipment), meanwhile the ammo I had loaded into that gun is being cleared.  as a crew, we suffered from lack of direction; the engineer and I both thought we needed to be in the same place at the same time, and we ended up role-swapping...which may be okay in some circumstances, but well, we did meet our demise, and I firmly believe that was the reason.  that really awesome match, we each knew our role and our stations.  so, the larger part in my experience is exactly what I typed out above.  it is absolutely key.

there is more to being gunner than that: knowing the guns of the ship you're on and what ammo is effective in them, both short-range and long, and having a strategy to fixing your gun when the rest of the crew is busy on the hull, balloon and engines (because guns are probably going to be last priority to keeping the ship afloat, from an engineer's perspective - and even if it's not, if you can effectively put out a fire and/or repair your gun while reloading as a gunner, that's one less thing they have to worry about).  remembering to reload your weapon at that moment when there's a break in battle or when ships are moving just so that you can't hit anything (and realizing how quickly they'll be back in range; whether or not reloading right then would be a good idea).  that last one is so little, so easily forgotten, and under most circumstances, it won't matter...but in what few matches it does, it'll separate out an excellent gunner from a good gunner.



engineer: have a beaten the dead horse enough yet?  otherwise, knowing your station (if there are stations), and being able to prioritize that station (or the whole ship), and having a strategy to help the other engineers or ask for help from them.
and then there's...knowing when you're an engineer or a gungineer.  in most matches I've played, when the action hit, at least one engineer was too busy keeping the hull up and running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to manage the rest of the ship components to ever think about touching a gun.  sometimes, you're an engineer.  sometimes, you're a gungineer - on a gun until something within the gungingeer's station starts breaking or until the dedicated engineer needs help.  knowing which is needed, when to be on a gun and when to be on repairs will make or break the battle.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 12:34:15 am by shaelyn »

Offline Underseer

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 05:47:27 pm »
In my experiences (though limited) as a primary and secondary Engineer, I've figured out some of the more important key-notes about the job.

First and foremost, pre-game communication.  If possible, try to talk with the other engineer(s) and captain about what's expected of the crew.  If you can come up with a basic game plan, such as which engineer stays on the top deck and which stays below, and at what point should everyone panic and swarm around the hull, then things will, usually, proceed much smoother.

You also need to know the basic stats of components for the ship.  For example, the Squid has very little armor, which means a Rubber Mallet isn't as effecient as the Pipe Wrench.  When you know how many hits from your spanner it takes to rebuild a part, then you can get yourself into a rhythm (Hit 4 times, on the fourth hit, immediately swap to mallet, hit with mallet, keep hitting with mallet, unless armor drops below a certain point, then switch to spanner again). 

Learn your cooldowns.  Rubber Mallet heals an incredible amount of health.  But it has a 9 second cooldown.  The bad part about that is, of course, the 9 second wait time.  The benefit, however, is that you can hit one component, and have time to run over to two over components, and make it back with time to spare.  Developing a kind of repair circuit will make those moments when you're being pelted by grenades a little less stressful.

Carry a spy glass.  No, really, carry a spy glass.  Just because there's nothing to repair doesn't mean there's nothing to do.  Spot enemy ships early and often.  Not only does it make the captain and gunner's jobs easier, it makes the jobs of your ally ship's captain and gunners easier.

Know your role.  The Engineer is around to make it so the rest of the crew doesn't have to panic (as much).  A gunner should carry a spanner or pipe wrench with them at all times, sure, but that doesn't mean you're forbidden from ever repairing their guns.  Being an Engineer also doesn't make it a crime, punishable by death, to hop on to a gun.  One gunner can only do so much.  But, regardless of how much fun it is to climb onto a Lumberjack or Hwatcha, you must never forget about the rest of the ship. Those big indicators aren't just there for decoration.

Have a thick skin.  This is the same with all classes.  You will get yelled at.  You will get blamed.  Learn to deal with it.  This community can get pretty excited and competitive, but at its heart, most of the players are pretty cool dudes.  I remember I was engineering, and the captain was yelling (more like talking loudly, but whatever) at me to repair the hull.  I explained I was using the rubber mallet, and it's cooldown is insane.  The captain, being the cool dude he was, realized that cooldowns were out of our control, and appologized, and we went on to die in a massive fireball, because Pyramidions are scary.

Know when it's OK to panic.  I usually gauge my Panic-o-Meter by how many components are broken, how many are on fire, how many Hwatchas and Lumberjacks are being fired at the ship, and how damaged the hull is.  Once the panic sets in, there's really only one course of action.  Have two people dog pile onto the hull, and slap it with spanners and mallets/wrenches, while a third person runs around, trying to keep the main engine, at least on side engine, and the balloon in working order. 

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: What makes a good pilot/engineer/gunner?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 10:41:57 pm »
Rule 1701 of GOI: Captain's perception of your engineering efficiency is directly propotional to frequency of Scotty quotes. Other star trek quotes can be used in a pinch ;D

Also, piloting is the most stressful job. example:

As engineer you think: a) I screwed up, what a loser, my fault.  or b) pilot screwed up, what a loser, his fault.

As captain you think: a) I screwed up, what a loser, my fault. or b) Engineers screwed up, I didn't tell them to do their job right, my fault.

You're basically responsible for everything that happens on or to the ship. The flip side is that victory feels that much more rewarding.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 10:52:58 pm by Omniraptor »