Author Topic: Guns of Icarus Online App  (Read 28600 times)

Offline Oliver Colt

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Re: Guns of Icarus Online App
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2014, 12:02:46 am »
There wouldn't be just one button that says "Repair engines". There'd be [Engine 1], [Engine 2] and [Engine 3] icons shown as little pictures of engines that are touch activated. When activated the AI is sent to it.

Well the thing is that honestly I don't see a lot of use for it if it's gonna be an equivalent of giving a little more specific orders to AI, because even if it's controlled by a player the communication with the captain will be very bad in most cases (let's face it, people don't communicate when they play on PC, they won't do it if they're in class playing on a tablet xD). In that case it'd be nice if it made the crew more useful than AI crew in decision making, but it's just what I think. If there was a way to work that around without tons of buttons that take longer to hit than the hull can handle then I'd love it, but I don't really wanna feel like I'm just telling the AI where to go and that's it :P

Either way I find this worth discussing because there may be a way to make it awesome without much interface mess and well balanced, and it'd be really great if that happens because I do wanna play GoI in class :D

Offline redria

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Re: Guns of Icarus Online App
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2014, 06:55:18 am »
My initial thought was an emphatic yes, but you guys raise good points. There is a lot that goes into every aspect of being on a ship that someone on a phone just won't be able to get. For example, your engine column gets taken out by a hwacha. Do I rebuild the turning or main engine first? There is no way to communicate that to someone on a phone, so someone on a phone is going to be as helpful as an AI. You would need to have the captain be able to give specific commands for each component, at which point you may as well just be able to tell the AI what to do instead.
Also, how would this possibly work on a squid? You have to be so multifunctional on a squid, and know where the enemy is, that realistically this would be worse than an AI.
If everything I mentioned in my original post wasn't implemented then all of those things you mentioned would pose problems. Good thing I took the time to mention all of those things in my original post that would help to eliminate those problems.

read the live feed game chat

Sorry, but good luck trying to stop piloting and type out "main engine" or "turning engines" when everything on your ship is dying and you have to help in repairs yourself.

Being able to hear voice chat *would* solve these problems, but it was not mentioned in your original post.

I get the idea you are going with here, but I think it would take a lot more work to implement, and end up being a lot more of a hassle for both app user and in-game-pilot, than you may think it would. I would love for it to work, and if Muse went with it, I'd totally buy in, but I don't see it really adding enough value to the game play to be worth the developers' time.

Offline The Sky Wolf

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Re: Guns of Icarus Online App
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2014, 10:25:50 pm »
My initial thought was an emphatic yes, but you guys raise good points. There is a lot that goes into every aspect of being on a ship that someone on a phone just won't be able to get. For example, your engine column gets taken out by a hwacha. Do I rebuild the turning or main engine first? There is no way to communicate that to someone on a phone, so someone on a phone is going to be as helpful as an AI. You would need to have the captain be able to give specific commands for each component, at which point you may as well just be able to tell the AI what to do instead.
Also, how would this possibly work on a squid? You have to be so multifunctional on a squid, and know where the enemy is, that realistically this would be worse than an AI.
If everything I mentioned in my original post wasn't implemented then all of those things you mentioned would pose problems. Good thing I took the time to mention all of those things in my original post that would help to eliminate those problems.

read the live feed game chat

Sorry, but good luck trying to stop piloting and type out "main engine" or "turning engines" when everything on your ship is dying and you have to help in repairs yourself.

Being able to hear voice chat *would* solve these problems, but it was not mentioned in your original post.

I get the idea you are going with here, but I think it would take a lot more work to implement, and end up being a lot more of a hassle for both app user and in-game-pilot, than you may think it would. I would love for it to work, and if Muse went with it, I'd totally buy in, but I don't see it really adding enough value to the game play to be worth the developers' time.

So you don't imagine you would be able see the health of a component as it goes down? What would even be the point of the app if the app user was blind to everything going on and the captain had to scream everything; in that case AI would be better.

Just use logic, please. The only orders a captain might be shouting would be "Man the guns, Fire at [insert ship name], Repair!, and Spot ships". All of these actions could be performed by an AI at the touch of an icon, though you wouldn't even require a captain's orders to do it if you automatically did these things in a timely manner, just like in PC Guns of Icarus.

Offline The Sky Wolf

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Re: Guns of Icarus Online App
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2014, 10:29:39 pm »
P.S. I can type while piloting/repairing/shooting because I know how to press buttons on my keyboard as well as my mouse. Some people just get too nervous to do both and read chat because they're just rabbits.

Offline redria

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Re: Guns of Icarus Online App
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2014, 11:10:23 am »
So you don't imagine you would be able see the health of a component as it goes down? What would even be the point of the app if the app user was blind to everything going on and the captain had to scream everything; in that case AI would be better.

Just use logic, please. The only orders a captain might be shouting would be "Man the guns, Fire at [insert ship name], Repair!, and Spot ships". All of these actions could be performed by an AI at the touch of an icon, though you wouldn't even require a captain's orders to do it if you automatically did these things in a timely manner, just like in PC Guns of Icarus.
Of course you would be able to see the health of components. But normally ai aren't going to fail you when parts are at low health, ai fail you when you are in serious trouble, and more than one critical component is dead, and your ai goes for the wrong one (or worse, runs between the 2 trying to decide).

Looking at the commands you mention,

Man the guns: there is currently a voice command that would tell crew audibly and through chat which side of the ship needs a gunner. I'm okay with this. A human controlling this would do better because they could specify a gun.

Fire at insert ship name: Which ship? Possibly this could respond to the "captain's spot" mechanic, keybound to B. This lets the captain specify a target that the ai might not shoot at. Again, this would help.

Repair: In most circumstances, yes this would work out alright. You could keep the ai confined to areas where it needs to be repairing, as opposed to the current chaotic ai mind.
But the ai already does decently in those situations. The times where ai kills you is when everything is going down and you are trying to hold on. You can specify hull, balloon, engines, etc. But engines specifically, you can't specify which engine.
Say all 3 engines are down at once. If you are trying to turn your guns on an enemy to get some suppressive fire on, you want turning engines. If you are about to slip behind a rock, you need your main engine. Someone on a phone won't have the situational awareness to make that call unless the devs put a lot of work into making a cheap app work well in every aspect. The only way you can communicate to your crew currently on which engines need attention first is through voice or typing. Personally, I'm going to be either trying to retake control of the ship (using wasd) or I will be running back to help on repairs (using wasd to move). I'll type, but generally typing isn't my first priority.
A human using an app might be better than an ai by actually going for the engines, but there still isn't that level of interaction that really makes me think this would be worth pursuing to the level that it would need.

I will repeat what I have tried to make clear in all of my posts though.
I like this idea. It would be fun to be able to have friends join in and protect me from ai. It would make it less dangerous to start with ai. It shows creative thinking, and I like it.
I just am also personally seeing that it doesn't make the ai significantly better, it doesn't come close to being as good as another human, and the amount of time and effort it would require to make would not really be worth the relatively small gain in gameplay. With the current lag in the system, even trying to give a real-time chat feed to mobile devices seems like a risky proposition to me.
What I'm trying to say is that I like your idea, I just don't see it working out in the current state of the game.

Regarding your making sarcastic responses to my initial concerns, then insulting my intelligence and ability to type...
We obviously haven't connected on everything that has been said here, but please next time don't resort to sarcasm and personal attacks. I try to be reasonable and I'm happy to explain what I mean in depth. I like seeing new ideas and I want to contribute.

Offline The Sky Wolf

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Guns of Icarus Online App
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2014, 10:49:56 pm »
I just found an extremely similar app that already exists. You can send UAVs and other support to your friends as well as strangers in Battlefield 4 via iPad while they're on Xbox/PS4/PC. Not only is it possible, but it's very popular.

https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/commander-mode-app-out-now-2/
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 10:52:34 pm by Grey-Wolf Jack »