Removal/replacement of passive sonar

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Music...it is ok if we have some action music during fights but really, it's utilization as a sonar tool has long since gotten old. Lot of folks just turn it off entirely till they realize it is like a sonar tool to tell you when someone is near. Which isn't needed. The system needs a redo. Not calling for complete removal, just redesign so it isn't necessary to use it in competitive games.

[JaegerDelta]

I think the music is great. the passive sonar is an unfortunate consequence but the tension it provides is invaluable to the experience of the player. with out it being there you would either have people being on high alert all the time which wears the player thin, and in competitive people are on high alert all the time anyway, or you have people blundering around until they are surprised by one another.

It is a great subtle cue to direct the gameplay toward conflict. even without knowing the sonar properties, anyone that has been exposed to audiovisual media in their lifetime responds to the music. with out it the atmosphere of the environment is crippled. 

each match has a clear arc of play. the no music low tension beginning simulates the feel of the crews thinking its going to be an easy no nonsense raiding/salvage/patrol mission. then the quiet drums build tension as the enemy nears and the player, again as a consequence of natural human responses to the audio and visual elements working together even with no prior knowledge of the sonar side effect, responds to this tension by looking around more, sticking closer to the guns, flying the ship more cautiously.  then the enemy is spotted and the battle begins and the music is more intense fleshing out the sounds of gunfire and images of explosions to a greater sense of urgency and intensity. followed by the cathartic explosion of the enemy or the distressing red glow of your own ships demise.

the music has to be there. its part of the artistry of the experience. would the opening crawl of a star wars movie be the same without john williams' iconic fanfare?

if you dont want the sonar side effect in competitive play, make it a rule to have music off in matches, because competitive play is no longer about the experience of the environment but about maximizing the math behind it to produce a win. both styles of play have their merits, and a player is granted the freedom to approach the experience as he or she wishes, but do not cripple the experience of the majority of players for the sake of the few who play in a community developed special game mode.

[Echoez]

Well, this feature is quite nice and Jeager stated, just make a 'No music' rule, of course you can't be sure if everyone will follow it, but hey, maybe it can be a special feature that can be selected for the match itself, game should ask you if you want the music enabled in this game or not and will automatically mute it for all players in the game for the competative matches.

I too believe in a serious match, the music indicating that enemies are close is a dead give away and ruins ambushing, but let's not completely remove it.. make it an option in match creation.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

You can't enforce that. Come on, get real.

Artistry of the experience is crap, you don't need sonar music happening to achieve the same goal. What you do is have a standard track playing at all times that keeps the mood mellow but tense enough so people are on their guard. Then it ramps up the moment action starts.

Also, I find more often than not new players have the music off because they get tired of it. Some even don't want to turn it on even after you tell them it is passive sonar. So there is little point to even having it. Heck I used to play with it off all the time. Doing that fostered a need to be on guard at all times when flying, watching all angles. Having to turn it on again after I realized it was sonar developed a bit more laziness in flying.

[Echoez]

Well I did propose a match creation option to have the music muted, on a more casual level people might actually enjoy it, you just take it off.

[JaegerDelta]

Enforcement is easy, if someone is using the music in a match  they will fly differently, start searching the area or stop moving or slow down, when the enemy is near.  if a ref notices someone doing that in match after match after match there is obviously no other conclusion to come to. yes if someone really wants to cheat they can get away with it but that is true of all competition. but that is why there are refs.

saying "the artistry of the experience is crap" is a bit insulting to the artists that worked hard on building the game world.  things aren't just put into games for no reason, there is alot of thought and planning that goes into designing the audio and visual elements. the option exists to adjust sound and graphical detail levels, yes, but that is just part of people having differing local conditions and playback devices, its the same reason you can turn down the volume of your TV.

yes, alot of people play games with the music off, but alot of people play games with the music on too.  and why should either of those groups be limited by the preferences of someone else? 

if your concern is competitive play, why have the ability to see other captains loadouts?  there are things that affect the outcome way more in competitive play than the music. and honestly, competitive play in games have always been about using the basic rules of how the game works as a foundation to devise and enact the most efficient win. why should elements of the game be limited for a competitive match? 

Now, if you want to start playing an unofficial game mode with like minded people that is a whole other story. much like the ARAM game type in MOBA games, its something people agree to do, and sometimes even become an official game mode in the game. having a No Music Allowed tourney could be a fun thing to set up, or one step further, a No Sound Allowed tourney. you just have to trust that the people signing up to be in something like that are not going to cheat. and why would they? they sign up for a tournament with specific rules just to break them and win a few matches that offer no reward other than winning them? what would be the point in that? its not something reasonable people do.

[Moo]

A way to have the music without it being a sonar would be to have it go to "you're near an enemy" when you are spotted or spot the enemy rather than when you are just near them. Then it doesn't provide any information not already visible. This could a per-match setting, as previously mentioned.

[Keon]

What's the problem again? Drums?

How is it OP? Both ships can use it.

[dragonmere]

It not that it's OP, and no one even attempted to make that claim anywhere in this thread. It's that having the background music enabled gives you a distinct (albeit slight) advantage over those who do not, due to the "sonar" nature of the drum beats. Not everyone knows this, as it is not very intuitive. Unless specifically told, it would take a new player at least a few matches under specific circumstances to understand this aspect of the gameplay. Many players will switch off the music before they learn about the advantage it can give you. Other switch it off knowing full well that it has a gameplay effect, simply because they do not want music, or would rather listen to their own.  I do not blame them, I blame the bizarre nature of the music in this game.

Generally speaking, advantageous knowledge of the opponents location is not the intended nature of background music in most games. If, in this game, it primarily exists to let you know that an enemy is there, it should not be music, but rather perhaps some type of an audio signal separate from the constant and optional background music. That way those who chose to have no music, or play their own music, would not be placed at a disadvantage. Also, if there was some type of a visual cue providing the same information in the same timeframe, there would be no issue.

This is not a matter of "over powered" versus "balanced". It's simply a discussion of the general nature of this core gameplay system. I entirely agree that the competitive edge that having the music on gives you should at least somewhat be formally addressed. It's silly.

[Keon]

Honestly, I don't think it's a problem. It's like saying if you turn off your sound, you can't hear weaponry firing at you. I like it. It gives atmosphere to the game. Think of it as a hunch or some sense of unease.

[Captain Smollett]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I've always liked the music and the way it works. The "passive sonar" ability really builds tension in matches when there's an enemy right near by that you can't see.  It's afforded to both teams equally and adds depth to the game.