31
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #115 (Sign Ups for August 14, 2016)
« on: August 13, 2016, 02:57:55 pm »
will be there. PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache, Infinity Omelette
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will be there. PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache, Infinity Omelette
32
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #113 (Sunday, July 31 , 2016)
« on: July 30, 2016, 02:00:42 pm »will be there. PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache, Infinity Omelette
33
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #112 (Sunday, July 24 , 2016)
« on: July 23, 2016, 12:59:51 am »will be there. PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache, Infinity Omelette
34
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #111 (Sunday, July 17, 2016)
« on: July 16, 2016, 01:49:27 am »will be there. PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache, Infinity Omelette
35
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #110 (Signups for Sunday July 9th)
« on: July 08, 2016, 08:49:00 pm »is signing up. PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache
36
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #108 (Signups for Sunday June 26th)
« on: June 20, 2016, 09:01:20 pm »RETURN OF THE GREEN.
is signing up
POC: Nietzsche's Mustache
37
Feedback and Suggestions / Re: New update
« on: May 27, 2016, 12:49:30 am »
I agree with most if not all of the above, with regards to the VIP mode. The addition of the sweep rule from the community VIP games would be fun. The VIP killing each of the enemy ships once (including the VIP) once completed amounts to a point for each ship killed plus the extra point for the VIP-on-VIP kill. So, a 2v2 sweep is worth three points, a 3v3 sweep is worth 4 points, and a 4v4 sweep is worth 5 points. This should give the VIP plenty of reason to actually stay in the fight instead of simply avoiding it.
Though I should note that a 3v3 VIP match I ran earlier was mostly dragging out because the team didn't really realize that brawling with the escorts didn't really amount for anything. They were convinced that SHIT WAS GOING DOWN when the only thing that mattered (score wise) was slipping in and out of the game with little consequence. It could yet be that we simply need to establish better metas. I remember when people hated KoTH until we all realized that mines were effective as all get-out. Now most of clan clan will jump at any vote for labby JUST BECAUSE MINES.
More to the point though, I can see the possibility of VIP being the one game mode where current counterplay is thrown out the window. Reactive builds might counter control in this game mode rather than the other way around. We'll see.
I also wanted to touch on the issue of the removal of the team swapping by way of spectator. I've always been fond of the ability of the community to balance lobbies more effectively than the matchmaker as well as the fact that when the lobby clears out, people will condense down to play with their new friends and make way for the new ships being queued in. This is a pretty clear slight to all of that, so I emailed Muse on the subject and this is what I got back.
Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby that somehow the matchmaker may have miracled into existence in the first place, is anyone else insulted by the notion that the GoIO community is some herd of base-instinct heathens that has to be controlled and manipulated for it's own good? C'mon, we're all just people that want to play a game and team up with whomever we want, whenever we want. The fact that people already are working around this by leaving lobbies and rejoining through the friends list is an indicator of the fact that we're just going to do whatever we want and Muse's efforts to control that is simultaneously agitating and futile.
Though I should note that a 3v3 VIP match I ran earlier was mostly dragging out because the team didn't really realize that brawling with the escorts didn't really amount for anything. They were convinced that SHIT WAS GOING DOWN when the only thing that mattered (score wise) was slipping in and out of the game with little consequence. It could yet be that we simply need to establish better metas. I remember when people hated KoTH until we all realized that mines were effective as all get-out. Now most of clan clan will jump at any vote for labby JUST BECAUSE MINES.
More to the point though, I can see the possibility of VIP being the one game mode where current counterplay is thrown out the window. Reactive builds might counter control in this game mode rather than the other way around. We'll see. I also wanted to touch on the issue of the removal of the team swapping by way of spectator. I've always been fond of the ability of the community to balance lobbies more effectively than the matchmaker as well as the fact that when the lobby clears out, people will condense down to play with their new friends and make way for the new ships being queued in. This is a pretty clear slight to all of that, so I emailed Muse on the subject and this is what I got back.
Quote
Friend joining will still put you with your friends. We most often saw slot swap abused for people to unbalance games. One new idea we're looking at is allowing slot swaps when the teams are unbalanced. We definitely want to give freedom and control by players, but complete control gives rise to worse balanced lobbies.
Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby that somehow the matchmaker may have miracled into existence in the first place, is anyone else insulted by the notion that the GoIO community is some herd of base-instinct heathens that has to be controlled and manipulated for it's own good? C'mon, we're all just people that want to play a game and team up with whomever we want, whenever we want. The fact that people already are working around this by leaving lobbies and rejoining through the friends list is an indicator of the fact that we're just going to do whatever we want and Muse's efforts to control that is simultaneously agitating and futile.
38
Dev App Testing / Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« on: March 15, 2016, 12:08:41 am »I thought of those as well, but discarded them due to wonder what drugs the ship designers would have to be on to end up with those designs.
Remember that the mobula was built as a party barge for a princes. I'm pretty sure drugs were, indeed, aplenty.
39
Dev App Testing / Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« on: March 12, 2016, 08:12:31 pm »The only change from last week to this week, is the Mobula's bottom guns are turned outward even further. Is that the resulting feedback from 2 weeks?
I'd like to hear the feedback that warranted this change
Me too. Especially considering at least last Sunday, NO ONE used a mob. It was mostly spires and pyras. And the Spires still won, not because it's OP, but because the pyra's too damn slow still. Being a heavy S.O.B. doesn't mean the pyra can ram better (I'll grant you, the rams that did take place did do more damage to me on the spire, but they also cost the pyra just as badly because it can't connect those rams before loosing so much armor).
Ugh.
40
Dev App Testing / Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« on: March 06, 2016, 11:58:28 am »oh and hi guys long time no see, my cold dead hand is reaching up for some reason in defense of the spiur
Right here with you man! *Fists in the air*
41
Dev App Testing / Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« on: March 01, 2016, 12:53:28 pm »
I'm still not sure how i feel about mobility nerfs for the spire. I still want to be able to run those wacky close range Spires, and a big part of that option is mobility. I suppose if it's a really small nerf to the turning while we get a big up to the armor, I'll still manage to moonshine backwards in order to deal with flanks. This is usually faster and more reliable than turning anyways. Plus, a mild drop in turning acceleration while maintaining turning top-speed could also serve to stabalize turning, thus making it easier to avoid that turning "twitch" that makes your hades/lumber/merc/art shots go wide.
42
Dev App Testing / Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« on: March 01, 2016, 12:26:58 am »
I know I'm a little late jumping in here and I haaaave missed official testing, but I wanted to echo a few thoughts and maybe add a few more:
nerfing Spire turning? WWWWWHHHHHHHY?! That's, like, the only thing it's got going for it, aside from sheer firepower (in the off chance you get that ambush juuuuust so). The Spire does, indeed, need a buff. Desperately so. But I'm not convinced just upping the armor or the speed or whatnot is going to be the answer. The weakness of the spire lies in its geometry. So much vertical hull to hit, all the guns clustered together so you can blindly shoot artemis or hwacha at the middle of the thing and start making life miserable. Ok, maybe an armor buff would be nice, but it'll still fail miserably in the face of an artemis or two. Also, the spire is weak enough to carronades WITHOUT the new gravity modifications. So, we're going to have to think about how to make it tanky AND not die to carronades in an instant AND make it less vulnerable to arts. So, basically the ship needs a complete redesign. We may not remember it, but Muse has sort of half-way done it in the passed. When the Spire was introduced, the balloon was on the top deck - so close to the helm that the pilot could repair it in a pinch - and the hull was down bellow where the balloon is now. We might think about spreading those guns out a certain amount (so shooting arts at a spire feels more like shooting arts at a mob) or providing some shielding (a la the nose of the Pyramidion), maybe rerouting the paths to hull and balloon so that wider gun placement doesn't mean longer runs to repair; otherwise balancing repairs and shooting would be so much harder that an armor buff would be moot). Actually, here's an idea that just dawned on me while I was typing this paragraph: Stagger the gun decks. The Spire is already in the shape of a spiral, so perhaps elaborating that so top deck guns are not at the same elevation and the bottom light gun sits lower than the heavy gun *might* create enough space to make dissabling harder. This, coupled with a mild buff to the armor and slightly reducing the mass of the ship could be all it needs. ... *could* Oh, and someone mentioned ditching the lower light gun? For heaven's sake no. Having the gunner be able to run two guns effectively was the best spire buff Muse ever established (with the reload mechanic where by you don't need to be on the gun at the end of the reload for ammo types to stick). Whether it's reload cycling (like what you do with hwacha and gatling. I've also done it with Hellhound and banshees, amongst other things), or having situational guns (ie a Lumberjack for range and a mine launcher for close range defence), you REAALLY want that lower light gun.
With regards to the squid, does anyone remember the dev app squid from when muse was first working on the buffs to the spire and squid along with nerfs to the pyra? It was ridiculously light and fast. It was the most fun and most terrifying time I've ever had playing this game, especially on paritan. Every terrain bump was worth an expletive, mine hits were terrifying, but the damn thing was so fast I had an enormous smile on face the whole time. THAT was what I wanted the squid to be. Its speed was its strength an its weakness all the same and I bet that would have been absolutely balanced because of this. But instead Muse reeled back the speed and upped the hull value. WHYYYYYYYYYYY?! The squid became less fun and its balance aspects less defined. It became the new pyra.
But here's another thing I wanted to touch on since we've been talking about making the squid more accessible, while some of us insist on keeping it a "hard" ship, has anyone ever thought of having the squid run with two heavy engines instead of 4 light engines? That could dramatically decrease the "Squid Chaos Crew" nature of the thing while, actually making things a little tougher for the pilot. Well, it would be harder and easier for the pilot, because you could burn the engines harder before you hit diminishing returns (both in terms of actual thrust as well as your crew's ability to keep the ship buffed and shooting guns), but as soon as an art lands on an engine, you're thrown catastrophically off balance. Couple this with a buff to squid speed (both strait-line and turning) and lightness along with nerfing the hull value tremendously and you might have a ship that's more accessible to newer crew while being a terrifying b**** to pilot. Whatcha guys think?
On the subject of the pyra, I've long contested that it should be a lawn-dart. In other words, slow to turn, fast in a straight line. It's always either been both or neither. I'm not offended by a buff to pyra hull, for that matter. With the mobility stats as they are, a pyra will still lose in a face-to-face with a spire any day of the week. Make it faster in a strait line and keep it slow (or maybe even slow it down a little more) on the turns, and you've got a game of skill and planning rather than a counter game.
The 5 degrees on the mobula gun arcs I'm a little up in the air on. The artemis' turning as it is already makes upper-deck arts a little slow to the draw in the release version of the game. That's why recently I've started running both my arts on the lower rung and simply using gat/double art as a close range option. The difference in how quickly my crews artemis fire becomes on-point amounts to orders of magnitude. So, I feel that making those upper-rung guns face further out further encourages more specialized mobulas where the loadout simply relies on the lower rung guns as far as the engies are concerned. However, with that in mind, I don't want to see the Hades Funhouse go away. I don't expect to ever use it in competitive because, even in the release version, the arcs are too damn tight. But it's a lot of fun to pub with and I'm afraid that widening those arcs by 5 degrees is going to make it worthless even in a pub match. So, with that I'll echo what others have already said: The Mobula is a weapons platform. Emphasize this when you make your balancing tweaks. If it's overpowered, maybe we need to think about its mobility rather than making it less a weapons platform.
With all that said, I want to make a more general statement: Even looking at what muse is doing with "When Ambush Comes To Shove", I still think they're making bandaid changes to things that appear overpowered. What is actually the problem is that Muse hasn't the slightest idea what the purpose of each ship is supposed to be. Once they can establish the very purpose of each and every ship, then maybe we can make some meaningful changes to the balance of the game. Once we've decided that the pyra is "The Vanguard To Lead You Into Battle" (which kind of implies it's fast and tanky and little else, not even manoeuvrable), that the squids purpose as being fast and manoeuvrable, but NOT tanky, that the weapons platforms (mobula, spire, galleon) are treated as such and have their own uniqueness to them as well (for example, I like the notion that the trade-off for running spire vs mobula is I get better manoeuvrability where I lose in having a more vulnerable geometry, but in the current metagame I don't get enough to make it worthwhile).... ... and what about the junker? How's the junker supposed to fit into this? The Junkers kind of been lost in all of this because it doesn't really seem weak, but in the current metagame everything the junker does the Mobula does better. This is why I'm REALLY disappointed to not see junker changes addressed so far. Or perhaps a nerf to the mobula's mobility could act as a junker buff. You decide.
nerfing Spire turning? WWWWWHHHHHHHY?! That's, like, the only thing it's got going for it, aside from sheer firepower (in the off chance you get that ambush juuuuust so). The Spire does, indeed, need a buff. Desperately so. But I'm not convinced just upping the armor or the speed or whatnot is going to be the answer. The weakness of the spire lies in its geometry. So much vertical hull to hit, all the guns clustered together so you can blindly shoot artemis or hwacha at the middle of the thing and start making life miserable. Ok, maybe an armor buff would be nice, but it'll still fail miserably in the face of an artemis or two. Also, the spire is weak enough to carronades WITHOUT the new gravity modifications. So, we're going to have to think about how to make it tanky AND not die to carronades in an instant AND make it less vulnerable to arts. So, basically the ship needs a complete redesign. We may not remember it, but Muse has sort of half-way done it in the passed. When the Spire was introduced, the balloon was on the top deck - so close to the helm that the pilot could repair it in a pinch - and the hull was down bellow where the balloon is now. We might think about spreading those guns out a certain amount (so shooting arts at a spire feels more like shooting arts at a mob) or providing some shielding (a la the nose of the Pyramidion), maybe rerouting the paths to hull and balloon so that wider gun placement doesn't mean longer runs to repair; otherwise balancing repairs and shooting would be so much harder that an armor buff would be moot). Actually, here's an idea that just dawned on me while I was typing this paragraph: Stagger the gun decks. The Spire is already in the shape of a spiral, so perhaps elaborating that so top deck guns are not at the same elevation and the bottom light gun sits lower than the heavy gun *might* create enough space to make dissabling harder. This, coupled with a mild buff to the armor and slightly reducing the mass of the ship could be all it needs. ... *could* Oh, and someone mentioned ditching the lower light gun? For heaven's sake no. Having the gunner be able to run two guns effectively was the best spire buff Muse ever established (with the reload mechanic where by you don't need to be on the gun at the end of the reload for ammo types to stick). Whether it's reload cycling (like what you do with hwacha and gatling. I've also done it with Hellhound and banshees, amongst other things), or having situational guns (ie a Lumberjack for range and a mine launcher for close range defence), you REAALLY want that lower light gun.
With regards to the squid, does anyone remember the dev app squid from when muse was first working on the buffs to the spire and squid along with nerfs to the pyra? It was ridiculously light and fast. It was the most fun and most terrifying time I've ever had playing this game, especially on paritan. Every terrain bump was worth an expletive, mine hits were terrifying, but the damn thing was so fast I had an enormous smile on face the whole time. THAT was what I wanted the squid to be. Its speed was its strength an its weakness all the same and I bet that would have been absolutely balanced because of this. But instead Muse reeled back the speed and upped the hull value. WHYYYYYYYYYYY?! The squid became less fun and its balance aspects less defined. It became the new pyra.
But here's another thing I wanted to touch on since we've been talking about making the squid more accessible, while some of us insist on keeping it a "hard" ship, has anyone ever thought of having the squid run with two heavy engines instead of 4 light engines? That could dramatically decrease the "Squid Chaos Crew" nature of the thing while, actually making things a little tougher for the pilot. Well, it would be harder and easier for the pilot, because you could burn the engines harder before you hit diminishing returns (both in terms of actual thrust as well as your crew's ability to keep the ship buffed and shooting guns), but as soon as an art lands on an engine, you're thrown catastrophically off balance. Couple this with a buff to squid speed (both strait-line and turning) and lightness along with nerfing the hull value tremendously and you might have a ship that's more accessible to newer crew while being a terrifying b**** to pilot. Whatcha guys think?
On the subject of the pyra, I've long contested that it should be a lawn-dart. In other words, slow to turn, fast in a straight line. It's always either been both or neither. I'm not offended by a buff to pyra hull, for that matter. With the mobility stats as they are, a pyra will still lose in a face-to-face with a spire any day of the week. Make it faster in a strait line and keep it slow (or maybe even slow it down a little more) on the turns, and you've got a game of skill and planning rather than a counter game.
The 5 degrees on the mobula gun arcs I'm a little up in the air on. The artemis' turning as it is already makes upper-deck arts a little slow to the draw in the release version of the game. That's why recently I've started running both my arts on the lower rung and simply using gat/double art as a close range option. The difference in how quickly my crews artemis fire becomes on-point amounts to orders of magnitude. So, I feel that making those upper-rung guns face further out further encourages more specialized mobulas where the loadout simply relies on the lower rung guns as far as the engies are concerned. However, with that in mind, I don't want to see the Hades Funhouse go away. I don't expect to ever use it in competitive because, even in the release version, the arcs are too damn tight. But it's a lot of fun to pub with and I'm afraid that widening those arcs by 5 degrees is going to make it worthless even in a pub match. So, with that I'll echo what others have already said: The Mobula is a weapons platform. Emphasize this when you make your balancing tweaks. If it's overpowered, maybe we need to think about its mobility rather than making it less a weapons platform.
With all that said, I want to make a more general statement: Even looking at what muse is doing with "When Ambush Comes To Shove", I still think they're making bandaid changes to things that appear overpowered. What is actually the problem is that Muse hasn't the slightest idea what the purpose of each ship is supposed to be. Once they can establish the very purpose of each and every ship, then maybe we can make some meaningful changes to the balance of the game. Once we've decided that the pyra is "The Vanguard To Lead You Into Battle" (which kind of implies it's fast and tanky and little else, not even manoeuvrable), that the squids purpose as being fast and manoeuvrable, but NOT tanky, that the weapons platforms (mobula, spire, galleon) are treated as such and have their own uniqueness to them as well (for example, I like the notion that the trade-off for running spire vs mobula is I get better manoeuvrability where I lose in having a more vulnerable geometry, but in the current metagame I don't get enough to make it worthwhile).... ... and what about the junker? How's the junker supposed to fit into this? The Junkers kind of been lost in all of this because it doesn't really seem weak, but in the current metagame everything the junker does the Mobula does better. This is why I'm REALLY disappointed to not see junker changes addressed so far. Or perhaps a nerf to the mobula's mobility could act as a junker buff. You decide.
43
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #87 (Signups for Sunday January 31st)
« on: January 28, 2016, 08:26:10 pm »
Clan clan will be there.
PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache, Spud Nick
PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache, Spud Nick
44
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #85 (Signups for Sunday January 17th)
« on: January 12, 2016, 10:46:42 pm »
Clan Clan is signing up. PoC: Nietzsche's Mustache
45
Community Events / Re: Cronus League Signups!
« on: January 03, 2016, 05:06:48 pm »
Signing up!
POC: Nietzsche's Mustache