Messages

46

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!

« on: March 02, 2015, 11:54:36 pm »

Gatling out ranges carronades but it cab still effectively fight against one...

An advantage does not write off something having the potential to counter something else.

A gold fish is able to be killed in two shots using a merc and heavy flak, both which can be used on a galleon, but a blender fish is still about to counter a galleon.

It is all situational, and you have to use the right tools for the right situation.
Telling people "Oh that wont work because it is out ranged" just assumes every match is a snipe fest and only people with the longest range will win, witch is far from the case...

Ships, move, flanks happen.
People think.

Range might not be everything, but the 1800-meter range of the Minotaur is very noticeably greater than the 1334-meter range of the Artemis or the 1200-meter range of the Manticore.  If the Minotaur's range were reduced to 800, both those weapons as well as the 2250 Mercury would outrange it, giving more than just a single option to disable Minotaur while being targeted.

47

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: What is keeping novices in novice?

« on: March 02, 2015, 06:50:56 pm »

It's a tutorial in an online game.  They're always subpar.  In any online PvP game, the REAL lesson consists of getting your @&% beat.

48

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!

« on: March 02, 2015, 04:08:08 pm »

Minotaur outranges both Artemis and Manticore.  I would call those two weapons "checks" to the Minotaur.  Not "counters."

49

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: What is keeping novices in novice?

« on: March 02, 2015, 03:42:24 pm »

How many players are in this multiplayer game?  Like 400 max and 80 min, with a one-time spike of 800 during a sale?  Do any of you expect that to last forever?  When there's few players online, novices will either have wickedly long queue times or be placed in matches with far-more experienced players.  Which do you guys seriously consider the lesser of the two evils?  Separating the two forcefully only serves to divide an already tiny community.  If newbies are only trickling in and can't play any matches because there aren't any other newbies, the community will perish.

To that end, I asset that playing in novice matches should be a newbie's PREROGATIVE.  Not their REQUIREMENT.

Also, there's more to learn faster in regular matches, and some people just click that way; those are the people who will be frustrated by the empty grinding forced upon them by novices before they can play the fun part of the game.  Must they seriously be forbidden?  I thought Guns of Icarus was a game.  Not a job!

50

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: What is keeping novices in novice?

« on: March 01, 2015, 07:38:39 pm »

Make novice last X matches.

Simple.  Elegant.  I like it.

51

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!

« on: March 01, 2015, 07:32:39 pm »

I think the Minotaur should be considered around what guns will counter it and what guns counter it.

Presently, I agree that it does way too much damage for a weapon that so severely impacts mobility at such long ranges in a game where mobility is seriously a huge, screaming deal.

At its present stats of .44 shots per second, 9-sec reload, 4 clip size, 60 direct piercing, 175 burst shatter, it presently ranks 9th (out of 17) in armor damage and 6th in component damage (DPS, including reload times).  This all doesn't seem so bad, until you also consider that outranges the hell out of everything EXCEPT the Mercury, while at the same time hitting almost instantly, especially with the pinpoint accuracy granted by heavy clip.

While I think its range definitely sorely needs a reduction, I would imagine reducing it to merely 800 would suffice; this would mean it would be outranged by the Artemis and the Manticore in addition to the Mercury.  This would allow both weapons to counter it by destroying it before it becomes too much of a nuisance.  At the same time, the Minotaur would still be very much useable as a counter to both types of Carronades by knocking approaching ships off-course.

To be honest, I think balancing the Minotaur should not happen all at once.  Making a single change and then observing its effects on the game would give insight on what else (if anything) needs to be changed.

52

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: What is keeping novices in novice?

« on: March 01, 2015, 06:46:45 pm »

I am very much opposed to the concept of funlocking (where you have to unlock the fun part of the game).  To that end, it is my opinion that the only thing that should keep a novice restricted to a novice match is fear.  If they're not afraid of better players kicking the #@%* out of them, then I think they should be allowed to join higher-level matches.  After all, how are they supposed to learn about buffing, fire prevention, effective ammo types, engie parkour, etc if they never see it in action?

If locking absolutely must be in place, I would recommend locking higher-level matches until merely level 5 or so, and locking novice matches after level 10.  I would also recommend that the locking only consider the highest level class for higher-level locking.  The novice "promotion" lockout might be a bit trickier, as a player might consider ceasing leveling at 9 to stay in novice matches; I would imagine that this could be prevented by using a combination of questions: "does this player have a level 5+ class," and "is the sum of this player's class levels 10+?"  If the answer to both questions is yes, he gets locked out of novice matches. This crap is too complicated.  I think a simple "sum of levels" or "sum of experience" would be the best means of locking players into/out of novice matches, but for GOD'S SAKE, don't make it take too long to unlock!

53

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: About the Minotaur

« on: February 27, 2015, 12:38:27 am »

I think the smartest suggestion I've seen in this thread so far was reducing the taur's range from 1800 to 800 (a decrease of about 55%).  This would allow it to counter carronades while not threatening to obsolete the Lumberjack, as well as allow the Mercury, Artemis, and Manticore to counter it by virtue of high shatter damage as well as outranging it.

Also, ZanC, thank you for the improved formula.  It showed me an interesting insight.

54

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: About the Minotaur

« on: February 26, 2015, 09:11:14 pm »

By my calculations (and I could be off, 'cause they got crazy complicated), the Minotaur, with direct piercing and splash impact, would do a bit more DPS to the balloon than the Dragon Tongue, and just marginally less to the hull.  It would also do just slightly less damage than a Hades to the armor, yet have the bonus of never missing with Heavy Clip.  With those damage types reversed, its damage to the balloon and hull would be just a little less than a Hades, yet would outrank a Hades for armor damage.

You seem keen to learn so I'll see what I can do.

After doing my own calculations, I have to ask how much damage are you using for the Impact AoE? If we change the secondary from Shatter to Impact, it would be rebalanced (i.e. definitely not 175 damage). Impact damage type is rare and has the best, all-rounded damage modifiers. The damage output is simply ridiculous to everything besides components.

Following the argument from Richard LeMoon, I see the core problem. What he is asking for is simply a small amount of Flechette damage, not Impact. There is a misconception that Impact would do better against Balloon as compared to Armor. Balloons have 1200hp and is designed to go down fast when targeted. That is why Flechette based weapons naturally have high damage. Impact damage type is very difficult to balance without being too strong against armor/hull.
However, because the Minotaur is so all-rounded, I don't think any of it would make it weaker than the current Shatter type, unless the damage is negligible.

Assuming the splash damage is changed from Shatter to Impact, I am using damage numbers of 60 direct Piercing and 175 Splash impact.

I am also prepared to list the equation I use:

Damage per second = clip size (direct bonus * direct damage + splash bonus * splash damage) / (clip size / shots per second + reload time)

If anyone sees an error in the above, please let me know.  I'd love to have more accurate numbers.

By using the above formula and assuming that every projectile hits its target and also does splash damage, this comes to 72.3 balloon dps, 60.7 hull dps, 50.9 dps, and 25.9 component dps.  This gives it similar Dragon Tongue balloon and hull dps (71.4, 61.9), places it near the midway point between Hellhound and Hades armor dps (39.7, 61.5), and nearly identical Scylla component dps (25.7), all accounting for individual reload times, yet ignoring ignition chance.

Here are the damages, again, as I calculated.  First with Piercing/Impact, as you proposed.  Then with Piercing/Shatter as it presently is.  Then with Impact/Shatter, and finally with Explosive/Shatter:

bllon, hull, armor, comp
72.3, 60.7, 50.9, 25.9 Piercing/Impact
10.4, 06.5, 27.6, 80.0 Piercing/Shatter
31.6, 23.8, 18.4, 85.3 Impact/Shatter
11.1, 22.4, 11.7, 81.4 Explosive/Shatter

55

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: About the Minotaur

« on: February 26, 2015, 12:01:36 am »

I said Impact/piercing. No shatter. A gun that can knock an enemy out of arc should not also be able to destroy engines to keep it that way. Also, I said a reasonable amount. Bringing it anywhere near Lumber or Hellhound levels is unreasonable.

By my calculations (and I could be off, 'cause they got crazy complicated), the Minotaur, with direct piercing and splash impact, would do a bit more DPS to the balloon than the Dragon Tongue, and just marginally less to the hull.  It would also do just slightly less damage than a Hades to the armor, yet have the bonus of never missing with Heavy Clip.  With those damage types reversed, its damage to the balloon and hull would be just a little less than a Hades, yet would outrank a Hades for armor damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong.  Seriously.  The calculations I made got pretty complicated, and the equation required arcane references, resulting in obfuscating any errors I may have made.  I'd love to have all the equations right before me from someone who was able to view it in a clear, understandable manner rather than the Da Vinci crap I've had to deal with.

56

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: About the Minotaur

« on: February 25, 2015, 04:23:57 pm »

I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

Actually, a good gunner will be aiming this primarily at the balloon, which is why it should do a reasonable amount of Impact damage. As it is now, the balloon just giggles as you shoot it.

Interestingly enough, I believe it should never do impact damage for PRECISELY the same reason!  This weapon is already powerful enough at controlling with its knockback and its shatter vs components.  Changing piercing to impact would make this weapon far and beyond more practical than the Hellhound and the Lumberjack combined!

57

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: About the Minotaur

« on: February 25, 2015, 03:21:29 am »

I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

It's already very good at its intended purpose of knocking around ships.  In a game like this where positioning is crucial, a weapon like this is already a force to be reckoned with.  To give it piercing damage as well just seems like overkill.

I think Muse once said there would never be a piercing heavy weapon. There was (and still is) talk about having it deal impact damage instead.

The amount of piercing per clip of heavy clip amounts to the same as 4 hades shots so it isn't much. I didn't check the shatter modifier but that probably contributes a chunk. Due to the long reload I haven't found the piercing much of an issue.

Does anyone know the reload?

Making it do impact damage could potentially be just as bad; impact does 80% extra balloon damage, and the balloon is the largest target on most ships.

Explosive might be more balanced, as it does almost no damage to anything except the permahull.

The gun is way too long-range, nerfing range to 800m or less should be hotfix priority IMO.

I had considered that as a possible balance as well.

Another idea might be to make it a projectile weapon instead of a hitscan weapon to require the gunner to lead his targets.

58

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: About the Minotaur

« on: February 25, 2015, 01:54:48 am »

I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

It's already very good at its intended purpose of knocking around ships.  In a game like this where positioning is crucial, a weapon like this is already a force to be reckoned with.  To give it piercing damage as well just seems like overkill.

59

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Call for Gunner Ammo Ideas

« on: May 23, 2014, 04:06:08 am »

Here's an idea: more charts/graphs.  The numbers are practically an incomprehensible mess of gibberish.

Even something as simple as lining the stats up in rows and columns would make it way easier.