Messages

286

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 05, 2014, 10:35:37 am »

Aha! Finally things make sense.

I am glad I finally got some linear relationship here, I guess I could say I am done digging up all of this, although I got out more confused than I started pretty much.

Thanks for your time here!

287

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 04, 2014, 02:28:10 pm »

One last confirmation. Are you going by the ammo count in the bottom right or by some sort of animated asset?

Concerning the reload time, I was going for the ammo count in the bottom right. I don't know how would that affect the results since if it does increase linearly, the time that it takes for the ammo to reach back to full should still increase linearly too, right? can't you shoot right away after your ammo indicator is back to full? or am I missing another 'invisible' step to count towards the reload?

and talking about rate of fire, I went from ammo decreasing from 2 to 1 ( talking about mercury ) , to the little rotating bullet thing in the middle of your screen to stop rotating.

288

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 03, 2014, 04:58:09 pm »

Did some measurements of Mercury fire rate - the results might not be as exact though since the error bars are +-0.06 sec and the mercury suggesting its following any linear pattern is supposed to have a jump of 0.133 seconds for every 12.5 hp down for it's fire rate.

^^So keep in mind these will not be too exact.

Looking at the graph it looks quite linear with several fluctuations that can be easily explained by the low accuracy of the measurements.
it looks like the fluctuations go either way of the graph, above and below with a nice avg of points being very close to the regression line, not like the reload time. So I don't see anything fishy about fire rate behavior.

289

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 02, 2014, 07:02:15 pm »

Actually the only thing that I could be thinking of right now is F6 not doing the same damage of 12.5 on a gun as I previously thought. Which could be quite logical now that I think of it. But I will wait for your confirmation on that - if that's the problem here, I derped up real good.

290

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 02, 2014, 06:23:35 pm »

Out of curiosity, what are your testing procedures? There might be some damage you aren't accounting for. It is odd that the graph isn't linear. Nothing in code looks like anything your graph is showing.

Going on an assumption that light guns have 200 HP and heavy guns have 425 HP (correct me if I am wrong), I use chemical spray on a gun, and hit F6 until it gets damaged. the damage done to the gun is 12.5 on each hit (again, correct me if I am wrong.) . that way I can measure with 200 HP , 187.5 , 175 , 162.5 , 150 ... 12.5 or in heavy gun case - 425 , 412.5 , 400 , 387.5 , 375 , 362.5 , 350 ... 12.5 .

All that reloading in different HP values gets recorded and then put in a editing program to count the frames it took for the gun to finish reloading. number_of_frames * 0.03 ( recording in 30 FPS ) = total reload time in seconds. I then pair them all up and plot them in matlab.

Attaching a file comparing both expected values and measured values for comparison.
EDIT:which for some reason uploaded 2 files? idk whats going on..

291

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 02, 2014, 05:16:12 pm »

Going on memory here, but if I recall correctly the intended behavior is that rate of fire, turn speed, and reload speed all decrease linearly with health up to a (theoretical) 50% of base at 0% health.

So a gun at 50% health should fire and reload at 75% normal speed.

Well, from what I have here, it's either the fluctuations of lag or whatever the factor here is are incredibly similar each time, to a degree that it looked like a more interesting pattern than linear, or something here is really wrong. Because as far as I know, there are not too significant error bars in my measurements here...

I will look further into rate of fire now, just to check it too, I fear it will not have that accurate results though considering you don't have many guns with rate of fire of more than about 1.5 seconds like the mercury... I might just record at a much higher framerate for it.

there is not really any reliable way of measuring turning speed accurately, so I will not bother with that.

I am encouraging other people to try and measure reload times with the same methods I did of chem spray on gun so it won't catch fire, and then F6 it for 12.5 damage. I found that the most accurate way to measure the time is via recording and counting the frames it took for reload. - Who knows? maybe you'll be end up more successful in proving the relations between gun HP and said behavior.

292

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 02, 2014, 08:41:47 am »

Probably not related, but on a side note regarding gun oddities:
The values given for the guns rof in the wilson notes deviate significantly from the ones actually usable ingame (e.g. the carronade fires a bit faster than stated in the wilson notes while the flak actually shoots significantly slower).

It doesn't matter, I still measured how much time it would take for a gun to reload at full HP not relying on given values by muse.

There is a factor of lag involved which might randomize the results to some degree(since this was conducted on a server with ping, and not locally.), but the graph shapes and equations are too similar to be called coincidental in my opinion. I have tested this using 3 different guns, both heavy and light, and gotten to the same results every time. the slight fluctuations that you see in the graphs might be explained by lag, as seen in the 300-425 HP zone of Hwachas, but those fluctuations are still random enough to give the same conclusive equation(to a degree) and graph.

All there is left to do now is wait for muse data from code to arrive... since I don't see any more reason to keep digging in to this after getting the same results every time.

293

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: June 02, 2014, 08:07:48 am »

From what I've read previously, it should be a linear relationship. The % damage directly relates to the % decrease in functionality (turning, RoF, reload).

At least in theory.

What method did you use to get such accurate HP measurements?

Using chemical spray on the gun and then pressing 'F6' in practice will do exactly 12.5 damage to the gun, assuming light gun HP is 200 and heavy gun is 425. and then using a recording of me firing the guns at 30 FPS, counting the frames, and thus achieving a +-0.06 error bar. (  100/30 =~3 | a hundred 0.01 seconds in a second - accuracy of 0.03 for each frame; +-0.03 each time, once from the error of the first frame, and once from the error of the last frame. )

294

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: May 31, 2014, 09:02:47 am »

Attaching Hwacha measurements too, if you note both of those equations are quite similar except for the X multiplier, 0.05 and 0.1. I reckon muse is working with same equations/methods on both guns because of that. Its important to note that the hwacha has more HP than the harpoon, allowing me to take more than double the coords for the graph with jumps of 12.5 HP each time. Thus, making the Hwacha equation more accurate.

Waiting for developer data to arrive.

295

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: May 31, 2014, 05:34:28 am »

I might get a chance to dig into the code for it on Monday. One note though, your axes are in the wrong places. Gun HP should be the independent variable on the x axis because reload time is the result. Otherwise it looks like HP is dependant on reload time.

Attaching fixed graph.

Disregard the first graph, I screwed it up again and I have no idea how to delete files I uploaded. the second graph is the good one.

296

Gameplay / Re: Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: May 31, 2014, 05:14:27 am »

Whats more painful than the reload speed decrease is the turning speed decrease.

It seems even more drastic than that, a light gun with even just 1 or 2 bars of hp missing can barely turn at all. Its like perma lochnagar shot over here.

Yes, that is the bigger issue, but I cannot really measure that in any reliable way, and reload time/ time between shots I can.

I might get a chance to dig into the code for it on Monday. One note though, your axes are in the wrong places. Gun HP should be the independent variable on the x axis because reload time is the result. Otherwise it looks like HP is dependant on reload time.

Yes, thanks for that, I was graphing this at around 3AM after some painfully long measurements sessions on both harpoons and beacon flare guns... and thank you very much for that, I really appreciate it.

Reeeeeeeealy... if this is true then the notion that a gun with 1hp left is as dangerous as a gun with full hp just took one on the noggin

Oh no, it's absolutely certain that damage slows guns down. That's been a feature for a long time. Extirminator is just looking for the exact rate of decrease in firing speed.

I think you meant to say the exact slow down in reload time, but I will look into firing speed too after I get conclusive results about reload time of both heavy and light guns.

297

Gameplay / Reload time to damage on gun ratio?

« on: May 30, 2014, 08:07:47 pm »

Hello there, I have been recently working on determining the connection between gun hp to reload time (Part of a project I am working on) and I have stumbled into quite the weird territory...

Using some recordings and frame counting I have fairly accurately managed to get the reload time for various Harpoon HP values (+-0.06 sec).

However when plotting a graph I get an unexpected result - its either a combination of a linear and and exponentially declining graph(linear to half health, and then exponential), or a quadratic equation for the graph as I show down here.

If there's anyone with knowledge of this, or a developer with access to the code of this, and can share, I will be very glad.

Also note this is only light gun data and not heavy gun, I have no idea if heavy guns follow the same equations.