Messages

16

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 25, 2014, 02:11:07 am »

I remember a lot of discussion about a heavy piercing weapon in the past. Every body said it would be over powered and that gat flak galleons would rule the skies. Seeing how easy it is to disable a galleon these day I don't think we have to worry.

It used to be even easier back in 1.2 with the old Lesmok Mercury gun that had a massive turning arc, people were just overreacting as usual. Disabling a Galleon was always easy, people were just too busy with the old Gat/Flak combos that they forgot the game also had disabling weapons because Gat/Flak was just too good at killing. Now with the buffed Artemis, it's a piece of cake as you don't even have to hit the gun pin point to damage it + you will damage both guns with one shot thanks to the Arty's explosion radius.

This has always been my counter argument to all these silly comments about Gat/Flak Galleons ruling GoIO but does anyone ever listen?



Now will Muse finally give us Pom-Poms?

17

Gameplay / Re: Ship ballance / damage ballance

« on: July 24, 2014, 11:05:47 am »

Instead of discussing the Pyra, why not focus on the damage types? That's been something I've been thinking since I've first started playing this game.

The dual-damage types of the weapons in GoI sound awesome at first, they sure add some depth and all that, giving weapons multiple pursposes and all, but it's a system that allows for very little expansion within itself, firstly cause weapon balance is extremely tight thanks to it because thanks to the multipliers of each damage type versus every component on a ship, reducing a weapon's shatter damage for example to reduce its disabling potential, will also reduce its total damage against other components, reducing overall damage just to balance the component breaking power of said weapon.

"But you can increase the other damage type to compesate" you might say, but that would make the weapon stronger against hull for example, if they main damage type was explosive and you might end up with a weapon that is good at disabling while now being better at destroying ships, completely wrecking it.

Now I'm not saying Muse should go on and revisit their damage system, but honestly if each weapon had specific damage values against each different component, every weapon in the game would be way easier to balance cause for example:

Let's say we have weapon X (numbers are random btw for example's sake)

Weapon X does: 50 armor damage, 100 hull damage, 70 component damage, 5 balloon damage, 0 fire damage on direct hit. If it also has an AoE, then the AoE would deal different damage on top of the main damage, main damage is applied to point of impact, the AoE's would apply damage to anything in its viscinity depending on the component with a fall off the further away from the point of impact as is now.

Let's say weapon X proves to be too good against components, you can simply reduce the component damage it does on both impact and AoE, without affecting its total damage against other components, something you can't do right now with the current damage system, because by altering one of the damage types on a weapon or buffing it, makes it overall stronger or weaker against everything else, no matter how little or large the difference, it's there and by large it makes balancing too tight.

I just wish Muse would have gone with something like this from the start instead of the dual damage types honestly, while it would allow for more diversity and multi-rolling of weapons instead of the dual damage system cause thanks to that system realy, how many damage combinations can be added that wouldn't be OP and what weapon to not ruin the fragile weapon relationships?

18

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 04:07:31 pm »

Well a gasoline flamer wouldn't just shoot out gas, it would be foundamentaly different on its usage, though your idea does seem cool :3

19

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 03:36:41 pm »

Things we still want to see are a heavy flamethrower

Yesh plis.

20

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 03:19:26 pm »

Xemko, lueosi, twinkie?

shiggy diggy

Great, now that you have proven your point, move on to the actual topic.

and yes I was expecting that answer, I'm not new here you know, lol.

That's still only 4 people, so yeah, effektive taktix. This isn't the place to stroke your ego Geo, get a room

21

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 03:12:41 pm »

"you need to stay still to aim an LJ"

...filthy casuals...

=P

Show me at least 3 more people that can reliably hit a far away moving target while the ship's nose is still in motion with an LJ and I might consider rethinking it

22

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 01:21:22 pm »

A lj/flak Galleon and a lumberfish are two extremely different things.
One is a stationary fortress that wants to deal as much dmg as possible and the other is a support disable ship that wants to set up good engages for his ally.
You cant compare those two just cause both use a lumberjack.

If i imagine a lj/flak galli instead of the lumberfishes in the competetive matches i probably get to the conclusion that the galli wouldnt work in that situation.

As I said, the effectiveness of the ship is entirely dependant on the gunner's skill with the weapon, you can still achieve the same results with all 3 heavy gun bearing ships, the gun has the same purpose on all of them and that's to disable an enemy, except on a Goldfish, if you lose said gun, you lose all your firepower at range and since you need to stay still to aim an LJ, you are an easy target that will have nothing esle to fire if you lose it.

That's why I personaly think that it's less effective than say a Spire doing the same thing, even a Galleon, it doesn't matter. It's your opinion and this is mine, now can we stop derailing?

23

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 10:45:25 am »

How about it also reflects projectiles. That would be so sweet.

But, we are trying to avoid adding Pyro airblast to this game :C

also can you imagine the tears of LJ and Flak gunners when their well aimmed shots just fling back at them? It would ruin a lot of people's days

24

General Discussion / Re: Damage Type Combinations (for discussion and new ideas)

« on: July 23, 2014, 10:41:59 am »

harpoon is piercing/flechette

Ya but, harpoon ain't a gun, it's a fishing tool, we use it to hunt Sky whales that will be introduced in a future patch.

On topic:

Explosive/Fire is something cool that'd I'd like to see, perhaps as an incindiery grenade launcher.

some other combinations would prove to be a bit OP :3

25

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 10:39:42 am »

Yeah but an 'air' gun wouldn't damage them, which hardly seems fitting for a heavy gun, plus it would be annoying

(TF2 Pyro airblasts anyone?)

A double barrelled long cannon would be a cool candinate for impact damage dealing shells. Also 'Impact' damage is the damage type  you get from collisions with map objects, like buildings, the ground etc etc, also mines deal it in their explosion.

26

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 10:23:18 am »

I want muse to add one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KsXYK_CNoQ

and make it do impact damage

Pom Poms! <3

27

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 10:19:53 am »

Mid/long range armor melt - frankly no heavy weapon is a good armor melter, though obviously close range carro spam will demolish anything and a full hwacha burst will do heavy armor damage...but they aren't optimized for it. There is no equivalent for hades or gatling.

Could be autocannons that shoot projectiles, not hitscan, so it's actually more of a challenge to fire them.

Flamer type - I would vote against this personally, there doesn't seem to be a point.

A gasoline flamer would work like hellfire artillery, would be a nice addition I believe, or it could come in the form of an incindiery grenade launcher?

Mines - This I would like to see. Giant floating death blocks, or even something so simple as a dual barreled mine launcher that can hold 8-10 mines out in space at one time. Mine galleon go!

even bigger mines?

Heavy rocket launcher - I mean artemis type gun. However, I think hwacha already covers this pretty well.

I find the Hwacha to be pretty different, since it's a burst type weapon with a massive reload, though I guess more rocket launchers would be reduntant, I'd like to see missiles tho

Extreme long range sniping weapon - heavy mercury. I don't know how this could be balanced however, as the merc already 2 shots some hull armors. Also loch on this would be deadly.

Probably OP as you mentioned, also 1 shot magazines with Loch all day. Though I have to admit a giant railgun would be cool.

28

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 10:07:27 am »

None of these statements are definitive. Theory never holds up 100%, but especially in this game. You were doing the same thing in the pyramidion thread. Acting like you know exactly how every single situation in this game plays out.

But aside from that, why can't a spire hold it's own against a squid? Especially with the hwacha or hellhound, it is very doable.

I never said that, I said "why not", don't put words in my mouth and don't bring other threads into this, I'm always speaking my opinion like everyone does everytime they post something, I thought that was common sense. Which means my opinion is not a solid fact and neither is anyone else's.

Also please tell me what exatly I said doesn't stand true for the most part? The Lumberjack is a gunner's weapon, on a Goldfish, from long range, you can only fire one gun, so you are as effective as your gunner, plain and simple.

In terms of finishing and pure damage, it is inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon, it's a simple matter of 2 guns versus only one. The Galleon is tankier and can starfe, allowing it to snipe for prolonged times.

The Spire can indeed backpedal like the Goldfish and fire more guns at the target.

The Goldfish's, Spire's AND Galleon's guns are all easily disabled as a sniper, cause in order to fire the LJ, you need to give your gunner a steady ship, or greatly risk messing up their shots.

You're telling me those statements aren't definite, sure, agreed, at least bother to explain why (and if you decided to do so, do it in a PM, not here), since as I said, I've been away for some time, so maybe things have changed? You come off as realy condecending in your comment and I don't realy like it.

As for the Spire not holding up against a Squid, the Squid can easily break your gun arcs cause your ship is so tall, it can stay above and pound your balloon, you can't escape either cause the Spire is too slow for that, one mistake and you are dead.

Now please stop derailing, I stated it before as well, this is a thread about NEW heavy guns and not a discussion about what works or not, I just stated my OPINIONS on the original post, that's all they are and will remain.

29

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 09:29:27 am »

Shows you've been away. The Lumberfish is all the rage now, i think since muse beat the ducks with it in the haephestus challenge. There are plenty of viable galleon builds and the spire may not be quite up to par for competitive  though i believe it is) But in any case it's a force to be reckoned with.

I've been here for the Spire changes, it's still a ship that can't hold its own against even a Squid and that makes it incredibly bad in my opinion, "Operation Focus Spire" is still a running joke (and funnily enough still works) since the ship is still horrible at taking any sort of hit and live to tell the tale.

Lumberfish has always been as effective as the gunner on it and that goes for any ship with an LJ, it's still inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon and suffers from the same weakness to easy disables while not retaining any killing power by itself to effectively kill a ship fast. I've flown it numerous times and I don't see why not even take a Spire instead of it, at least you can fire more guns while still being able to backpedal. Though it could have some uses against slower ships, but I don't see how it will do any better than a Spire considering the enemy gunners can easily disable your gun with an Artemis on both occassions.

I'll take a look at that replay if you can provide it via PM tho as I am interested. Let's keep this on topic though, this is not about currently viable guns on ships, it's about just getting more of them, more shinies is always good.

30

Gameplay / Re: Heavy duty weaponry

« on: July 23, 2014, 04:15:40 am »

Just a few examples that show how things change. There dont need to be a drastic balance change or a new gun to change the meta and builds.
All it needs is a team willing to do sth new and if it works out how they wanted you will most likely see it every now and then.

Sure, I agree, but that doesn't make the already 4 used weapons any less stale and Galleon builds are still pretty much Sniper/Brawl sides if you don't count Overwatch's ridiculous shenanigans in Flotsam, Goldfishes still only use 2 of the 4 available guns and Spire is.. I don't wanna talk about the Spire until it can fly sideways

By fresh I mean I want something new, a slight meta shift will not replace my thirst for a new shiny toy to equip on my Goldie or Galleon. Unlike ships like the Junker, Mobula and the Pyra that can play around with a lot of guns, Fishes and Galleys are VERY restricted with their heavy gun loadouts and lets be honest, there might as well only be 3 Heavy guns atm cause I don't count the Heavy Flak as a 'weapon' it's just a finisher, not a real weapon, it's only good at ONE thing, which I find is very lacking for a heavy gun design in this game, considering all other heavy guns are multi-purpose.