Topics

1

General Discussion / The battle of BlackCliff and whatever the hell happened...

« on: April 05, 2017, 05:04:51 pm »

Me and the rest of GwTh and others took gear to take blackcliff, we grinded for 3 hours doing search and destroy. The Baronies needed only 6k more effort while Chaladon required 1k. Amazingly enough, just as we finished our game and watched in disappointment the unlikely score, some other group won the final points to require Blackcliff! We got it!

Serpent point suddenly vanished from being contested, and Black cliff immediately went to a defense against the chaladons that had a headstart with 50% effort.
What the hell happened? We put so much effort, with some final moments of luck we got it, but then it just jerks itself and did that!


I am sure that things will be much more interresting than this pretty soon. But still, that minor whateverthehellmisshapthathappenedthere is... anti-climactic.
In any case, I hope there will be more of this soon!

2

Feedback and Suggestions / Berfing (Buff but also nerf) The chemspray

« on: May 30, 2015, 12:12:02 pm »

I was thinking of something that will help chemspray users, and weaken them. Along with making fire still very viable (Perhaps more).

The underlying problem is how chemspray if used correctly can stop fires completely for a long time.
An added layer to this problem is how active the chemspray demands the player to be for it to be used well.
Making the extinguisher less prefered, and opponents choosing fire weapons non-existant.

So i was thinking...

- Chemspray now gives 75% fire resistance instead of immunity (Or another number)
- But the length of the spray is 80 seconds (Or another number) But there also now shows a timer much like the buff hammer
- Fire stack takeaway stay the same
- Maybe lower cooldown by 1 second

Extinguishers immunity changes to the new resistance of the chemspray.
But heatsink stays as immunity (Or changes to the new resistance)



What does this change?

-Chemsprays become much easier to use and is much less required functionally. It will make the chemspray act more like how its intended with less worries of when the chem spray removes but minor worries for fire poppin in. Proactively, it does better. The ammount of fires that can happen should not be alot and enough for the chemspray to handle it.

-But now fire isnt completely stoppable. Fire can now add fires to chemmed components, but the ammount will be minimal and just enough to warrant chemsprayers to worry a little. The new enemy to the engineers should then be Incendiary Ammo. That ammo along with perhaps fire starting weapons will now break down chemmed components into fire easier. Resulting in fire starters to put ships in fire, but not as chaotically and need to put more effort in adding that fire.

-So since chemsprayers now have a worry, and fire starters can pierce against chemsprayers. Extinguishers will server as the saviour of when the fire is starting to get uncontrollable. With the long spray buff, the extinguisher should have no problem fixing any large stacks while the components wont suddenly lose their buff anytime soon.



=In summary, the chemspray Berf will make it easy and not mind consuming to use, the Extinguisher required with it, Fire starters still able to cause fire just need to add more effort into it, like incindeary that may be more usefull because of this.


Whats the catch?

Other than changing a little bit on crew playstyle with the addition of extinguishers now being more usefull and incendiary threatning to pierce the resistance harder, its how The ammount of fire chance % works versus fire resistance %. I dont know how it would calculate.

So if my flamer which has 22% fire cause chance by default, added with incendiary (20%+), then it becomes 42%. The 75% fire resistance would then take 75% of that 42%. Resulting in the component would instead have 11% chance to gain a fire stack from the weapon... ?

Does that sound good? Bad? Becuause versus Banshee which is 35 (55 with incend) on direct hit, 26 (46 with incend) on AoE would Coralate to 9 (14 with incend) on direct hit, 7 (12 with incend) on AoE versus the new chemspray.


What is your goal?
To make Chemspray easier, not as required as it is now + simutaniously make the other elements still usable and have a chance.

3

Gameplay / The new harpoon

« on: April 30, 2015, 08:39:43 pm »

Alot of people seem to think the harpoon has been changed for the worse. Did you... not think to pull?
In practice, the harpoon no longer reels or messes up your ship. It does its "physics" when you fly away from your target.
Only to notice i pulled the dummie.

In a goldfish with harpoon, a crewmember attached a harpoon to a pyras ass that was looking at us with his side.
So, knowing how it now works, i used moonshine and pulled him.

The harpoon no longer reels, but rather, it hooks.
What happened to that pyra? Pulled him right out of arcs 130 degrees away.


Can anyone confirm this also?
Ive found this in theory to be usefull in: Squids, Goldfish, pyra sides, junker front?

4

Feedback and Suggestions / Player run Defence Tower [Coop/Adventure]

« on: April 01, 2015, 03:34:45 am »

I was thinking about how the giant super heavy gun would be implemented, and the way i could think of is a manual reload. By that, an engineer or gunner has to get off, run around and add in new ammo much like it needs repairing. Just that to fill the gun, another player has to reload.

[This is for coop/adventure mode btw]
And that idea spanned even greater torwards manning a defence tower.
So instead of boarding, you take over a weapons tower which has bunch of weapons around itself, even the big one.
The one ship has to park in it, then repair it while their ally defends them. Once it is repaired, it is claimed. Now they have to hold it against giant waves, but with the help of having the tower.
And the tower has bunch of weapons to be used for firepower and defence. Like each side has 3 guns that combo well (2 hades + heavy flak. 2 Lumbers + heavyF. 3Xminotaur). And the Fourth gun is a giant super heavy gun that can rotate around, which most likely if i think about it will be manned by the pilot but may be better for a gunner. But it needs to be reloaded manualy by a player in another part of the tower. So the pilot/gunner jumps on the big gun using the super heavy gun for the sake of killing boss ships or airships (Lochnagar oooo!).

When they succesfully defended the area with the tower, another location opens up and they all have to move there.
I was thinking a scenario where the enemies are coming in from 3 different direction, the tower takes on 2 of them while the ally ship takes the third. urging for Ship to Tower communication in terms of target and role. Just a really odd idea where we can realistically use one of the big super heavy guns, killing ships in one blow and using our battle airships as not just gun platforms but also vessels to get someplace and then get off.

Here is another balance.

This coop map (or adventure whatever) Features 3 towers to claim. The first and second towers are not mandatory to prevail in, but if you fail in one or both, the third tower will have 1 (or 2 if you didnt win at the other two towers) less gun on each side for the third tower. So the objective is to claim towers and prevail in holding them to have more guns for use on the third Tower.


Just a daydream idea

5

Feedback and Suggestions / New component types?

« on: March 24, 2015, 02:59:05 pm »

I was thinking, it is getting increasingly difficult to come up with interresting new ships.
But what if new ships introduce and replace existing components with new ones?

An example, instead of Baloon, it has wings. Where there is 2 of to repair. Wings are weak, but repair quick. but are in several different locations.
Another example is One blasting engine, instead of constant thrusts, one blast to propelle the ship fast forward in a heart beat then slowly stopping into another blast.
Or hull with absolutely no armor and 5 times the ammount of Health of a galleon.
Or Hull armor that need to be repaired from different parts of the ship, creating a different dynamic to the hull armor repair.

Any other unique but similar mechanics? For balance reasons i can only see this coming to fruition in adventure mode.

6

Gameplay / I made a Ramming Spire Build (Other Ram ship discussion)

« on: March 19, 2015, 05:04:06 am »

Because of spires new speed buff, i took the time to try out a ramming build with the spire in pub play.
It actually worked.

(Albeit not as effective actual gun builds, maybe, havent tested enough but its super fun)


Heavy Carronade (Gunner) with a Gattling (Buff engineer) and 2 harpoons on the top (Main engineer).
I gave myself Moonshine + Impact bumpers. With the third one being anything, either chutevent or Pheonix claw or Dorgue chute.
The goal was for the gunner and buff engineer make the ship as suspectible to rams as possible.
While the main engineer can waste tiny bit of his time aiming 1 or 2 harpoons and getting back to hull repair (Or repairing in general).

When the buff engineer takes out the hull, and the carronade annoys the baloon and transfered damage over to the hull with lochnagar and such. Moonshine + Impact bumpers on ram demolishes everyship (except Galleon). Add in harpoon and youve got a killer. Problem, is when you dont get the kill, youl ram through him. Dont turn, or atleast dont exert too much engines. Back pedal and ram again. With the spire, it is easier to ram falling ships because of the verticality of the spire. If your harpoon hits (Remember to moonshine if harpoon hits whenever) youl get reeled down to a ship below you. In anycase, on ram, moonshine should apply, and impact bumpers will protect a big portion of your armor. If the armor is down, a big portion of the hull is protected (But you never want to loose health). Harpoons secure your speed and fucksemup.


SO...

Having moonshine and Impact bumpers greatly made me appriciate the combo. Specialy now that it works on a ship like the spire
TBH it should have worked before also. But i think i was reluctant to that decision because of low Hull Hp at the time. Now i can afford it. But most of my time ramming was never loosing hull but rather not loosing armor which was never changed. So the only thing that enabled the spire to ram better was its speed buff.


What other ships would allow for ramming? (Excluding pyra, it has a built in impact bumpers on its front )

Currently i can theorise that Junker can do chute vent rams, while difficult, not wise for any junkers to ram (Not tested). Then we have the mobula, which can easily Uppercut ram with Impact bumpers+Hydro. And the goldfish, which essentialy the same as my spire, just without the gattling + harpoon, but with more speed and hull health.
Squid ramming is something i want to test with moonshine + impact bumpers. Despite its 200 armor, it wont loose it on ram. With the added speed and health buff it should be able to do it effectively.

Now it all depends on what ships can ram what.
The spire in my experiences could ram pyras. Only problem is not at its front. So it barely can ram pyras. But versus pyras with no moonshine of their own, the ram of a spire can swing the pyra to its side and the carronade will continue its job. Still risky, all ships are rammable but barely pyra.

And it goes on to how squids being too lite in ramming pyras, etc.

Discuss?

7

Gameplay / New Spire!

« on: February 26, 2015, 02:23:39 pm »

Weve witnessed the new changes to the spire, which are stat buffs to its Health and Speed.

This greatly made players more comfortable with the ship and lots more people play it now finaly (Even though some of the builds they use are rubbish).
And guess what, they still die somewhat quick. But this is just pub play were talking.

Spires now are a greater threat than what they were before, not just because of the buffs but also reasons why players start to use them, the buffs simply made players open to the spires concept of quadfectas. The spires firepower was never changed, just how many hits it can take before it dies. The speed mostly doesnt change much on its survivability more than its meneuverability, but what the speed did buff on is partialy on its firepower when it comes to range. It can distance himself better with the limits of his weapons. The health stat better forgives any players that try to manage their crew onboard the spire. Before, one needed pitch perfect ish crew to make the spire as threatning as all the other ships. Now they just have to be competent enough because the health finaly forgives mistakes, and allows for bravery... Such as keeping a quadfecta while the armor is dead. Killing before getting killed has become less risky.


And if you think spires are too strong, then maybe you need to sit inside a spire to know how to defeat it.

Think about Explosive power more than piercing power when on about killing the spire
If you have a dual gat + mortar mobula and you want to kill that spire... dont do that. Just have hades or One gat lesmok with dual light flak mobula and youl kill the spire in one barrage, that is also because the armor isnt as well looked after as the goldfish's armor. Thats mostly because of the format of the ship.

Most of the times, or usually expect less fire power on the spire the more you tamper with its Armor or baloon.

My biggest problem with the ship is the New gun!

I need more slots because the minotaur opened up an array of new builds. You have no idea how many i have but gosh darn did it grow with the minotaur.
And that is also something im expecting from the spire being more friendly. New builds i have not ever tought of.

So! What do you think of the new Spire?
May someone familiar with the squid open a similar topic for the squid?

8

Feedback and Suggestions / Ammo combine

« on: February 23, 2015, 07:37:44 pm »

Copy and pasted from dev app forum where an idea is being discussed... mostly by me but its an idea that has been on other peoples minds also.

Difficult to think of ways "instant ammo switch" can be easily implemented for goio.
Just for the record, not instant reload. Just combining ammo.

Should just call it ammo combine.
"While holding stamina, you will get effects from all of your equipped ammo."
That way, there will be no increase in how many shots you have unless you start off with an ammo type that gives you more ammo count, while it only combines the effects.

[So imagine a gunner on a Gattling gun. With Greased, Heavy clip and Lesmok, he will be able to buff the gattling to be able to fire at long(medium) and accurate ranges. Like it once did before. But remember this time it requiers a gunner and him to have stamina.]

[A gunner on HF with Charged, Loch and Lesmok can combine its effects for ultimate destructioooooon, albeit will hurt the gun]

[A gunner can load Heatsink on a mercury to get 3 shots, then use stamina with Charged and lesmok to hit his target real easy with 3 shots]

[Hwacha with Burst loaded then stamina with Charged and Incendiary, or heavy clip]

[Hcarronade with Heatsink reloaded, and heavyclip+Charged]

[Hades burst loaded: Charged+Greased]

And more

Take note, some combinations can make guns fire veeery slowly.


Vanilla ammo cannot do anything cus its default.
Lochnagar may be the only problematic or balancing ammo. Either exclude it, or keep it there as a way to make gunners reluctant in using stamina as a conflict of choice.

Eh... il keep thinking about it.


------------------------


Ammo combination Continued!

[Mine launcher: Load anything, have Lochnagar, charged, Incindiary]
Blow up the god damn ship

[Flamethrower: Load greased, have Incindiary + Lesmook]

[Carronade: Load greased, have incindiary + Heavyclip]

[Gattling: (greased reloaded) Charged+Greased+Burst]
New Short range Gattling meta better than buff engineer!!!

[Banshee: Greased loaded, Incendiary, burst]

[HF: Heatsink loaded: Charged+Greased]
Close range HF with 3 shots


-----------

Richard LeMoon

I have suggested being able to combine ammo types to make super ammos. It should not be a stamina thing, though, or at least not a gunner only stamina thing. A pilot or engineer could only combine special with standard, though, so it would be pointless in most circumstances.

It could work like so:

1. Select ammo to reload, click fire to lock.

2. Scroll/1234 second ammo, click to lock. Ammo types combine stats.

3. Gunner becomes OP, because Lesnagar.

4. ? ? ? ?

5 Profit.


------

MightyKeb

I was thinking once that what if ammo types saved on guns? For example if a gunner loaded lesmok on the left/right flamer of a blenderfish and an engi happens to get on it mid combat he's only gonna be able to fire off one lesmok clip, and thats assuming he doesnt just reload it right away with something else. So I'm saying what if it could be made so that even if you didnt have lesmok you could still use it on that specific flamethrower? It could be like a faded second-ammo-ish for engis. Now you could perhaps consider this a buff to all classes, but here's how I think it is:


Let's say you're on a hwachafish with a gatling on the side as a gunner. Your only viable ammo choices are Heavy Clip and Burst, usually you'd take Heatsink incase engies mess up their chem or are busy repairing, but you could instead take greased for your third ammo, call out for your gatling engi to take heavy and thus making the gatling equally versatile as the hwacha, thanks to the gunner. Perhaps a problem of it could be that one engi could take burst, other could take heavy, and a 3rd engi could take greased as heavy is viable between both the hwacha and gat, and just mix them up in their guns to actually nullify the gunner class instead. But what if instead it had some sort of cooldown or a limited amount of clips to fire before you ran out of that type of ammunition? Or hell, what if it was a gunner specific thing?


Or simply make it more clearer while ON the gun that it has a different ammo loaded in instead of going like, "Whoa, who left the flamer on 175 ammo? Imma reload immediately" by adding an ammo indicator. and make it so that you can save that one clip for an occassion.


--------

Crafeksterty

You just found your own problem for that idea.


I wonder... if gunners could combine in the fashion i stated. Without the need for stamina, would it still be gamebraking? Would engineers be unloved?
Like in todays goio. Would it create a new dynamic where some ships actualy has gunners or 2 gunners on it just for the sake of weapon power versus survivability?

If this were the case ide have 2 gunners and a buff engineer all day on my spire, and in some cases 3 gunners. Not kidding...


There still are ships like the mobula that suddenly i then would have the urge to have 1 gunner atleast.
I can see people putting atleast 1 gunner on a pyra, or 2 for a more specific build.
The 1 gunner on the junker is going to enjoy himself immensly.
The squid will get a firepower buff, heck it even may want to go dual gunner itself.
Galleons may still be conflicted to some degrees but atleast 1 gunner will be considered.

This also creates the Choice of conflict versus fires or builds where you are expected to have engineers to settle.
In the fear of that, every ship will atleast have 1 gunner on him.

I think i should make a new topic on this on the feedback section. Il copy paste these stuffs.

9

Feedback and Suggestions / Practice Tools

« on: December 23, 2014, 08:44:56 pm »

Ive suggested this before but i want to give it another more defined shot, see what we agree with and how not.

Wilsons Handbook Gunner slot, passive
Gives you damage numbers on each hit marker that you deal.
Great for theorizing and pin pointing the damage done by number in the expense of a slot.

Another practice tool that helps players math out numbers of damage done to enemy ships.
This can be a good way for explosive gun users to determine the ammount of health remaining on ships, or a callout for when the enemy ships armor will go down.


Evadnes Handbook Engineer slot, passive
Evadnes handbook shows the exact number of each components strength number when looked at.
-Shows number of armor and hull health on the Hull
-Shows the speed that engines go at
-Shows baloon strength that is defined by health+buff. Low health makes the baloons mobility of the ship less effective, thus giving the correct info there.
-Number of health on guns

A good tool to make the player familiar with the exact statistics on ships components. Which one is fastest, which one performs best during damage etc without any patch notes or out of game info.


Lusses Handbook Pilot slot, passive
Gives the player viable pathwise, and outlines that ships can take on the map screen.
The lines are based on thickness and thinnes. Thin being Low, thick being high, along with all the lines moving around the map showcasing for ways the ships can go in on each map.


Stopwatch Pilot slot equip
A stopwatch that counts down to the actions related to you Passively seen by only the user.
-Gives you a "Time spent off helm" time for every time you jump on helm (Good for practicing your speed and valuable time it takes to jump in and out of helm)
-You see the cooldown of repairs beyond range. not buff nor fire protection(Usefull for learning engineer routes and judging the value of taking the time to get to a component that dont need repairs)
-You see the reload on guns beyond your range. (Usefull because of expected timing of weapons shooting, and learning and getting on guns before reload.)

This is a good tool for all classes to better their commanding/expecting actions. In the expense of a Spyglass or a helm tool.
To perhaps balance it, we could make each specialties be exclusive to the class, so pilot gets Time spent off Helm, engineer cooldowns, and gunner reloads.
Much like the rangefinder but for in-ship practice, and in-ship observance.


MirrorGlass Helm tool
Allows the pilot get a free perspective below the ship, and a perspective above the ship. (as different zooms)
A good way to figuring out when your ship is going to hit something above or below.

Also very good for looking at the enemy ship directly below or above you.
Gives view advantage with peeking with just the top or bottomt of the ship.


Range Finder new Mechanic
An addition to the range finder, it now shows distance on a tagged enemy ship on an allready tagged enemy ship by a spyglass.

-----
Helpfull features

Report Card new feature
Get a real time score screen of your performance.

(Not too keen on this one as the report in the end of games dont exactly match up to your game performance, just class performance. And can maybe distract the player)


Recall New Feature
Clicking on ship names in the tab score screen will showcase their loadout in a miniscule 1.2.3.4.5.6 numbers with gun name.
Or just hovering over their names.

------
Avoiding the Handbooks


The handbook tools can be avoided with more proper statistics on the actual books ingame.
Evadnees handbook can be avoided to a degree with more info in the book stats for the actual ships, and ship selection screen.
Wilsons books can be more improved with the damage modifier place in with beside the base damage that the gun does.
Lusses can be avoided by adding these pathway hints in the actual book and showing their maps.

10

Gameplay / Cant play 3v3 or 4v4

« on: December 22, 2014, 08:04:28 am »

Whenever i try to set the prefrences to 3v3 or 4v4 it loosens too soon and gets me into a 2v2 game.
Why is that? I specificaly wanted 4v4 and damn well want to wait for it. This prefrence loosening also makes it so that most games are 2v2. So thus everyone joins into a 2v2 game.

In the custom games menu, i see 3v3 games running but they are novice. And novice only cannot do 4v4.


What up the dealioh?

11

Feedback and Suggestions / Instant-ish Ammo Switching [New mechanic]

« on: December 06, 2014, 06:43:05 am »

When a gunner switches ammo, he has to reload the whole gun.

What if he just changes on the guns current stats?


When a gunner changes ammo on a reloaded gun, it will only take 1 and a half a second to switch it.
The Ammo count he had on it when switching changes Proportionately.

The 1 and a half a second is there to not be abused DPS wise when switching from ammo to ammo.
And a reason to not keep switching ammo because it wont be worth to abuse a minor bug in it.



The Problem
When someone switches ammo with this new mechanic, the only problem when the gun changes is how much shots it has left.
So when someone changes ammo from charged to greased, the gun isnt fully reloaded.

Instead, the game during the time of 1.5 seconds of minor reload simply instantly calculates the ammount of clip size you had (57% of greased ammo left) and proportionately with % translates it into the new ammo (57% ammo left on incendiary. Less shots but still aprox 57% of incendiary clip size).

That way, guns will eventualy have to do a FULL reload and Ammo switching will actualy be usable.

A hades Lesmok has 6 shots. If he drops it down to 3 then switches to Greased wich is 10 shots a full greased clip. It will turn into 5 shots. (50% if lesmok, 50% of greased)
He shoots one shot on Greased, and then switches back to lesmok which goes back to 3. He switches back to Greased and the ammo counter says 5 again.
This is what can happen with the calculation but it will take him 3 seconds to shoot 1 extra shot of Greased hades. Its just not worth it.

Heatsink will actualy be used by gunners, Combinations of Lesmok and Incendiary can be brought up on flamers etc.

A gunner on a squid that is manning the flamer can use Lesmok to start off with, and usually squids come in close enough for incendiary. Thats when he takes 1 and a half seconds to switch over to incendiary for a more effecient fire making. Since Lesmok has less ammo, it also eats up the proportionate clipsize quicker than greased would. so he still would not have maximum ammount of incendiary ammo just proportionate to what he had on lesmok. Meaning he will eventualy have to Reload.

The problem is very small on higher ammount ammo weapons, but on mid ammount ammo weapons (Hades, LF, carronade) its just not worth it because of the 1.5 second switch.
On Low number weapons, this is a different story.

-Heavy Flak can combine Heatsink, charged and Lochnagar to deliver a weak to strong shots.
So a gunner loads Heatsink (gives heavy flak 3 shots), shoots 1, Switches to Charged, Shoots 1, Switches to Lochnagar, and fires his last shot.

-This wouldnt apply much on a Twin Carronade as its shots or dps is more worth it individualy than it is to switch. It would be able to switch from heatsink to Lochnagar on the last shot.
Lumberjack can benefitt slightly from this ammo switching too. Again, good use of Lochnagar for those close encounters.




The best weapons that benefit from this is:
Hwacha, Flair, Harpoon just because their reloads are so long that switching ammo on them will be easy and make them pretty usable.

Hwacha dont have to preemtively guess Burst or Heavy clip anymore because it is 1.5 seconds away from either.
Flairs can have 3 shots with heatsink combined into them.
Harpoon can be easier to fire because you can simply add in Lesmok. Dont know how exactly you would use it still.

--------------------

Oh and everything else on the gun changes. Stuff like stats from default template ofcourse.



So what do you think? Would this break the game in someway? Would it enhance Gun play and gunners ability to steer a gun exactly how he wants it?

It centers around avoiding having to Reload for the effect of using different ammo. The biggest problem imo currently is the giant wall of Reload that makes different ammo uses not worth it.
With this, a gunner can play around with how much shots he can churn out of his gun with the pauses of ammo switching. Heck maybe even make it 2 seconds ammo switching. Enough to make people reluctant, or commited to switch ammo.

12

Gameplay / Small Clip size, Small Reload [Gunner fix theory]

« on: November 27, 2014, 06:15:08 pm »

This shouldnt belong on the Feedback section as this is more on the discussion on weapons and how they are expected to be used with Ammo and gunners that we need to be more usefull.


What am i talking about here?
I recently tought about how ammo do have lots of effects for different guns but their effects arent used as in the end they arent as worth firing as the others.
That is because in this current state, some ammo types are stronger. But what if they are just stronger because of how the game sets up guns?

-Imagine the gattling only firing 30 shots by default. But it has increased 80% reload speed from what it is now.
That way, a gunner using the gattling could use different effects like incendiary, greased, Heatsink.

-Imagine the Artemis now shoots 2 shots per clip. But the reload is now 60% faster or more than now.
This would encourage different ammo types. Burst, lesmok, incendiary.

-How about a mercury that shoots 1 shot. but 50% faster reload. Charged and lesmok would be used.

Lets not forget it would be much easier placing Heatsink in these weapons.


Im talking about this because ive come up with an idea for a heavy weapon in the Feedback section that has a very small reload, so it shoots constantly, encouraging multiple ammo types.
But im not suggesting this for all guns in the game. Just a tought for some, or future weapons. Because, i admit if this would be an overhaul, it would change too much of the game.

The mine launcher and Heavy Flak, Twin Carronade are the only guns that can fully benefitt with a gunner on it because of their ammo type and how fast the reload is. It would be nice to see some weapons turn to benefitt more because of reload times being very fast.

Here are a list of weapons i think would benefit from being changed to better suit a gunner.
-Hades 3 shots, 50% less reload.
-Artemis (mentioned above)
-Mercury (Mentioned above)
-Lumberjack, 1 shot, 75% less reload.
-Light Carronade, 2 shots, 70% less reload
-Flamer 75% less clip size. 50% less reload.

Now, this would be a downright nerf to these guns when compared to the guns not touched on.
The rate of fire which these guns would fire would be different, and for some would be constant (Mercury, lumberjack) which maybe we dont want.

Im giving this out as a suggestion to better make you imagine how it would look like if all guns were allready like this.
So the question is, would this make you want to choose gunners because them firing certain or more weapons than today may be better with this option?


Its a discussion on Gunners ammo types versus the reload times we have today.

Ide rather have a new tool type for the gunner, like an instant activateable that changes the gun slightly, but enough for the gunner to use an ammo type and an instant activateable. But because muse want to find a way on making ammo more usefull. The reload and just being on a gun kinda allready settles how hard it is to put all 3 ammo to use.

13

The Lounge / Martial arts!

« on: November 02, 2014, 12:28:07 am »

Ok so im bored, and want to talk about something i really enjoy in a place im familiar with...
Here!

And also Martial arts!


Who has experience? Interrest?
Im not talking just Karate, Kung fu, Capoeira.
Kickboxing, boxing, wrestling and other forms of unarmed weaponary styles are also very much considered martial art.

What is yours? And which one do you admire? Care to share something? Stories? Anything?
Im starting this topic cus i have a small story, but recently ive started kickboxing which sparked my interrest back into martial arts.

In anycase, please do tell me anything of your knowledge. Few things to remember, everyone does the same style differently. One may even brake rules of said style to better express oneself.

Skip my story if you just want a quick read.

My Story

Ok here it goes. Ever since i was 10, i started training in karate. This was pretty standard. First few days were with other kids, but as days past ive noticed the number of other equal aged kids were vanishing til after a month. From there i was training with teens. Teens that were on the same grade level. Before i go further, you should know that my teacher was a short, bald, very polite and very good karate instructor. Altough short, he is incredibly fast. But i couldnt help but feel he was not exactly teaching us HIS karate. Because he consisted of having momentum, instead of locking your self into a stance. Just that detail gave me an idea of subtle meneuvers that the movement we are forcing ourselfs to do and how it actualy helps on our ability to throw a punch/kick. I was so invested in these subtle details ive noticed something very little people consider.

Karate has a very linear looking stance, which in turn if one knows how to use it, can make for an unpredictable dynamic stance. And that is because one stance can do many things, even transition to another stance.

So here are the subtleties related to Karate. Every punch, every kick, every counter/grab meneuver is excersized extensively. For those other people who trained karate, you should know how tedious it can be to train karate. But the idea is very simple. You can use one or two moves multiple times. Versus another experienced fighter, few moves gives false sense of linearity. Making you suddenly unpredictable when you change stance or do something very different like maybe that infamous falling dropkick/axekick. This is how i took karate, and greatly made me appriciate doing 50 times Oi-Zuki.

Another thing related to karate is how were trained to move forward, were always long ranged. There is no casual blocking for points like a sport. Blocking is a form of an offense. It is either punch the punches, or counter-punch. If you look at images of karate stances, they look like they make you spread your legs way too long, or impracticaly. In videos, you can see profesional karate users jump step into stances. even though the stance makes the user imobiles, his ability to jump a meter or 2 with a stance. This makes the user have to COMMIT to what he does. There is no second guessing. Which means when blocking, one has to commit to counter. So lets say, you the profesional karate user, wants to step forward and because of that step forward, you know he will defend himself, but this time you are sure he will throw a punch. So... Step forward, Ready counter punch. If nothing happened, nothing happened. Change the plans. If he threw a punch, your in luck. If he kicks your allready in defence for it. This is also something i took of karate. Commitment. Without it, the punches, kicks or whatever will only be half as powerfull.

Here are the subtleties ive noticed that can translate anywhere
Vision!!!
Ive noticed something i dislike highly of kickboxing. Kickboxing consists of Proper Boxing with the tought of kicks. Incredibly effective, because Boxing is allready an awesome martial arts, but combine it with kicks you are pretty much set. (There are some russian military CQC martial arts ide say proove to be most effective in modern day world IMHO) But their stance, i hate it. Not their legs, not their posture. But their hands. Its infront of their face. Its defencive reasons, but also for sport to not give any blow to their opponents. What this makes though, is it makes you blind.
You have probably seen boxing matches, MMA or just movies where they start blocking their stomach/head area with their arms to the sides over those areas. They ofcourse have to drop and lift to protect either the side of the head or stomach but it makes the person defending Incredibly blind. A kick can come in and they wont see it coming because of their own arm. One can just lightly make the person flinch his arm closer to block his own vision, giving you the opportunity to kick from where he cant see.

Im actualy glad i was tought to have my arms down. Ofcourse, defencively less effective, but reactivly more effective.


One more thing, and that is something i want most or ALL people to know.
Your punches comes from the very ground. It comes from your foot. Then your leg, then your hips, body, arm and then hand. I noticed this with Karates standard "Zenkutsu-Dachi" stance.

Mike tysons mentality was "To punch through my opponents". And it is a very agreable statement coming from a then after dirty fighter. But there is one thing wrong about it. It being a mentality.

It shoudlnt be. You can see alot of people using this in boxing also, but i dont know if people actualy feel its usefullness.

*When you throw a punch, with a stance where you have a leading leg, and a back leg. That Back leg should push you forward. The leading leg is simply support. Karates demo of this is pushing. When you push an object, you dont use both your legs. One is ahead, the other is back. That back leg is what you want when you throw a punch. That same effect of pushing should be in the punch. Just with support of the front leg.

What will this do? It will give you extra centimeters of reach, but most prominently 3 times stronger punch. Because you expect to punch whatever you want at where you feel it will connect. But because of that push, you will go few centimeters deeper than expected. Pushing yourself stronger than you image yourself to be. If you have a punching bag or something that reacts and can show the effect of punching like you used to, and punching with the pushing effect. Hard to explain in text...*

Anyways... Back to my Story
With all that in mind, my teacher actualy noticed my method. He gave me double grades, and then put me in adult sessions. This was so suprising to me. Yett very difficult. In these sessions, the teacher noticed another thing... Thats when things get very very sad...

In adult sessions, everything is very exhausting. That 1 hour of training is soo hard. It feels like 3 hours. And because of my exhaustion, revealing mistakes and weakneses. And he noticed something GRAVE that made me stop excersising Karate completely.

I was flat footed. How i liked to call it. My knees were a bit angled, which made my feet not straight whenever i walked. This was obviouse specialy in karate stances and in exhuastion.

We found out that excessive feet excersises like i did, or cycling and stuff like that. Was very harmful to my condition. I mean.... No wonder i was the only one who had burning knees after riding a bike. So, at the age of 14 i stopped Training Karate, which also made me stop excersizing anything really. Started becoming a whimp, just underweight and thin. Parents always begged me to excersize in gyms, you know with apparatus and stuff but never could do it. I needed something dynamic, something that prooves to be practical. Did tennis for a few months. Not as cool as Martial arts... In anycase, i had to wear something underneat my foot whenever i had shoes on which did help e straighten my legs and knees more.

But my condition isnt permanent. I can still feel it, still is pretty visible, not as much as before. But currently, at my age now ive taken up on kickboxing classes. I feel that same feeling ive had again. Just downright momentum and achieving self expression. By that i mean, being able to do 10 momentous high kicks in a quick and actual flurry. It looks stupid in your mind if you think about it, but it looks incredible when you see someone great at it. Just achieving that sense of control again is something im aching for.

My karate training is still in my habits and in my head from 7 years ago.
And I heard once that the teacher became norwegians Karate representative. (dont know if he is currently)

Basically, I really love karate. Alot of people underestimate it (even those who use it). But i see so much warfare/battle abuse it can do.

I really admire Capoeira. Its got an unpredictable flow that is very fun to try out.
The martial arts behind it is what is lacking to me. I mean, Karate and Capoeira are like super contrast to eachother.


This is also a reason why i love fighting games. For characters that have Karate training, usualy have this very stubborn looking move set and playstyle. Look at Jin from tekken 3 but most prominently 4. His Karate is very standard, not multiple stance heavy at all. Very relaxed, careless one may say. But that is to go with his personality.

Another Karate Character is Makoto from street fighter 4. Her personality relates her Karate style more torwards kyokushin karate. But her moves seem to look alot more like the Traditional karate. Alot of her attacks are very accurate to the actual protraiyal of karate attacks. The only reason this karate is a made up one is to suit the 2D nature. I mean... an UP PUNCH?!?! A litteral Axe kick from Mid air? ok... But makoto is probably the most prominent looking and playing karate character.

Another character with prominent looking karate, but doesnt exactly have too different of a gameplay from the rest of the characters (cus dead or alive) is Hitomi from Dead or Alive. Look up a video if you please. Just not beach volleyball.

Here is a fun thing to notice. Each of these characters are just fictional. Artists made them. And each of these characters i mentioned do something very similar. They like to do this motion with their arms. Its crossing them quickly and then back again. This is actualy a typical motion one can do in karate, and thats because... imho its like refreshing your momentum. If you ever tried weilding a sword, you cant stand to hold it in place, you feel like you need to move it. In most cases there is this unnecesary seeming spin most people do when holding a sword. Its just refreshing your momentum which i tought is a neat gesture and for karate, looks pretty unique. Most or many other fighting styles do the same.



Do you have anything to contribute? Cus ide love to hear something coming from a different experience.

14

The Lounge / SixSixSix

« on: October 20, 2014, 04:44:48 pm »

666



No seriously, i opened up steam to try out the new patch and then i saw this.

15

Gameplay / Final Defining Spire Buff

« on: August 17, 2014, 06:33:36 pm »

I want to adress what has been on a thread in the Dev App forums and bring them here for more feedback and discussion.

Im pretty worn on the discussion but i am also one man that thinks as one mind when trying to solve this puzzle.
And that is one final buff or a combination of buffs that can finalize the image of the Spire to make people want to use it.
We had the discussion about buffing other ships instead of nerfing some ships. This ship is one of them, even though i actually want to look at the squid, one final spire buff should be enough.

Alot of people do have their toughts on it and that is what i want to hear.
I am probably the only one who uses it to its extent. In most cases a brawly fashion because of the over bundance of pyras and goldfishies. The best gun imo is the Lumberjack. But that build only works if the enemy ship is not pyramideon. Not saying pyra is unbalanced, just that people tend to use pyras and i cant use a LJ build. Which then makes me switch things around. But your not ever up against 1 ship, its 2. So one has to think about how one build works against 2 ships. If you take out one ship, can you assist your ally on the other?

And that is a Different Story surrounding the Spire

The Spire today actualy does work if used well, one has to go beyond the 4 star difficulty that it has.
Problem is that there isnt much forgiveness being brought to those who use a spire. It is usually dependant on the player skill and timing along with the ally ship.
We want to make the ship a bit more less dependant from its ally, and make the players actually feel safer or recognizing to the spires ability.
How can we do that?


When the Spire was buffed, it was more of a Berf than a buff. (Berf = Nerf+Buff)
It was a change, the previous spire could point 2 guns infront, and barely a third gun. The fourth was always reserved for a flare or flamethrower.
However the spire had alot of armor, problem is it was downstairs. So only 1 engineer or engineer and gunner was on it rebuilding a pyra like hull.
The baloon was on the empty spot that you see now right behind the helm. Overall the components were easier to manage and keep up but its firepower was very lackluster and from its size, it was weak because it got hit alot. Things changed, the side guns got a 45 degree turn forward and now you can have 4 guns pointing in one direction.
But the baloon got placed downstairs, while the hull placed at the middle of the ship to take away soe attention of being tanky like the goldfish now with goldfish armor.

Funniest thing about this is that the spire was just as strong, just the current one is more flexible so it can problem solve more now.

Here are the different buffs proposed from different sources and myself, make your own also. I wanna discuss on this.

Move the hull to where the baloon used to be

Place the hull on the empty spot up by the helm!
This gives quick access for the engineer and pilot that are upstairs and repair the hull.

My Comment
This is both Good and Bad

Good because it goes for atleast a main engineer and a pilot helping out on the hull with an immidiate repair.
Bad because it now takes away the gunners and second engineers ability to help on the hull.
Current hull is pretty balanced in terms of getting to it and over all repairs. Second engineer can usually run around the ship, taking laps from baloon to main gun to hull then jump down again. While an immidiate path upwards is the ladder. While the new one allows for the pilot and main engineer to do a quick repair but next to no reason for other players to come up as well.
The spire can be extremely tanky versus some ships if all come to repair on the hull, rebuilding and repairing it. This buff will make the hull repairing easier, but also linear. Also enforcing for an engineer pilot.

What i like about this is that is gives less tought on the hull so the players can focus more on other things since it is so easy to grab.

Double its acceleration

This is pure stat upgrade
The spire is the slowest ship in the game, this buff gives it some control on his allready slow speed.

My Comment
Basicaly make better use of the spires body. The spire in general should be able to position and move around. Its not fast, but atleast it should be able to move when it has to move.
Double acceleration or more can lead to better positioning. Playing with range better, and backpaddling better. Along with kyrosine or moonshine, it can lead to some mindgamey elements where if the spire will go back or forwards to avoid a ram. Not only this, with double acceleration, the spire can more easily jump into cover quicker.

Even today, you can dodge lumber/Hades shots just by showing off ones side. With double acceleration would make for a more apparent element on the spire.
Much like how the mobula can dodge vertically. The spire should dodge horizontaly.

I also want to stress the fact it would play with range better, on its arming time, dodging shots and do suprising turns for a thin slow ship.

I really support this idea, but it doesnt solve most problems on the spire. This buff is a good one to combine with some other buff.

More armor

Very simple
up to 500 or 550 or 600 armor instead of its 400.

My comment
But im very much against this idea. The armor that each ship have is not that far from eachother, if the armor goes up it will meet up with the pyra mideon. Buffed armor will lead to higher or that of a mobula or pyramideon. Making a very glass cannony unbuffed pyramideon.

For example, (current spire armor)400 + 30% is 520.  500 + 30% is 650(Pyramideon armor). 550 + 30% is 715 armor (Mobula armor i think, 100 less than junker armor)
So allready its becoming tanky. If you are thinking about all ships being buffed in comparison, it will still give the spire an advantage. It would then be a pyra with 4 guns. versus a buffed pyra with 2 guns. So it is mostly for non-competetive balance. Competetively its not balanced. Uncompetetively, its balanced. But if both dont agree, then its not a good choice.

But remember, that is my oppinion, you can say otherwise.

Taking out unnecessary spire bits (Hitbox discussion)

Would help alot in unoticable ways.

My comment
Some of the more arguments fly torwards the pointy bit of the spire being unnecessary and should be removed. But then you are taking away the personality of the ship.
Some arguments go torwards the baloon ram of the spire being problematic. There is also the many parts of the spire being both hull and baloon. Where the bit on top of the spire is acctualy Hull.

I think the more smaller bits is a better thing to experiment torwards than the actual huge bits.

Ide propose an odd excuse for keeping the pointy bit.
If we can add a ladder that goes even further down from the platform where the baloon is now to a 5th gun that points backwards.
Not only are you using more of the model of the spire, you are giving a defencive backwards gun. This is, highly controversial.

Better turning

Very simple
Better/faster turning

My comment
One of the things that has always been said about the spire is that it can turn fast. This is not true. The junker, squid, goldfish turn quicker. While Pyras or mobulas turn almost just as quick. But the turnrate is enough for getting the guns on target, but the turning does not justify the description of the spire to "Shield its engines".

Nothing wrong about the turning, but it is an option for the spire. Its just a different kind of option.

Better verticality

Make the spire be able to go up and down faster

My comment
The argument for this is to better use its verticality so to better handle its body.
The spire is second best at vertical meneuverability. Pretty much the junker just that the spire has more acceleration to it which is the cause for verticality.
Another option which doesnt really need to be done since it allready is good at verticality. The body is the buff focusing on.

Mostly the argument comes from helping the spire dodge rams better. Its true and it can help.

More Hull Health

Give it More Hull Health

My Comment
This kinda contrevises (if its a word) the fact that the spire is glasscannon, but with such an easy to hit hull it should still be able to stay up there with its guns. Outgunning a ship with health sacrifice.

Lets assume current hull health is that of wiki "650".

If we can raise that to 1000, The spire will have an obvious playstyle of formating crew.
For example.

Heavy hull health makes the spires gunners actually use the guns more than repairing the hull,
But if the reverse its focus to repairs, suddenly you have a very tanky but fully disabled ship.
It also helps against terrain, the spire is instagibbed by terrain mostly because of its weird body. This health can forgive that.
I actually support this idea as it compliments both competetive and uncompetetive playtype.

Competetively, there is an aware that the spire can be easily brought down, with this update, one needs extra killing power, or more accurate killing power to hit. The health also gives the spire  a chance to back out into cover. It also finaly makes the spire able to tank something in a sniper match. In risky formats, it will always outgun if pointed at and will always loose health, it just wont trade as much kills. But still killed if suprised.

Uncompetetively, the ship will forgive most skill levels on the spire because it gets a second chance of being tanky enough. The spire is slow and unmoving so in most cases the spire is still able to get hit and thus still die fairly quick. Goldfishes have 1100 and even they can die quick. With the spires hitbox and body, it can still die quick but with a bit more carefull gameplay, the health will forgive most trades or mistakes. Making the difficulty less of a 4 star, and into an actual 3 star.

Tell me, do you have anything in mind?
I want to finalize the spire so i dont have to think about disabilities of the ship.
Even though the focus should fly on the squid, i believe just one more adjustment to the spire that isnt grand that can help the players flying the spire a more balanced experience.'

Also take a look at this https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,4422.0.html