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The tested Harpoon was not good. You can snipe Squids with it at almost maximum range without Lesmok, it was constantly one-shotting Squid armors and doing out of proportion balloon damage. Carronades and Lumberjack are almost entirely redundent by bringing one quick double Loch Harpoon and your ship lost balloon and armor in that instance. Although the testing was probably bringing results that are out of proportions, because a lot of people brought either double Loch Harpoon, Loch Harpoon/Carronade, or Loch Harpoon and Hwachas (good job on testing actual gameplay, guys) and in a comp match you won't see double Loch Harpoons. But that won't mean it is going to result in good gameplay in pub matches or generally a good idea for good gameplay.

I like the sound of the new proposed stats for the Harpoon a lot more. It doesn't kill Squids by one-shotting armor, but I am not against keeping the current piercing values, the reload is a lot shorter than before, but not too short and the reduced pull duration is not too little so it still allows the Harpoon to actually pull. I don't mind a bit more balloon damage on the new proposed stats, closer even to the tested values, but not on the value that it invalidates the light Carronade.

If at all possible, I would love it if the pull was a toggle, so after pressing right click once, it starts pulling on its own, pressing it again would stop the pull. There are multiple reasons why I would consider that a good thing and only have yet only heard one counter-argument: a player didn't want it to be an idle gun. Getting on, clicking twice, and getting off the gun again almost immediately doesn't sound particularly exciting, but the Flare is no different either and both are utility guns.

I wanted to quote this and comment because I'm the oddball that was really excited about a harpoon that did some real (or reel? You know, if you want a pun) damage, having called it a 'light lumberjack'. For my part, when I was testing on Saturday I was mostly looking at combining it with banshee and/or hades in which case it was pretty damn effective. I think you are right to suggest the harpoon should not be a replacement for a carronade or a lumberjack, which is why I'll agree with the suggestion of splitting the difference between tested and proposed harpoons in terms of flachette damage. A lot of people also suggested that 335 meters per second is a bit high and I even suggesting nerfing the arcs to something more ackin to an artemis.

One of the other things I noticed is the harpoon has the capability to play as the great equalizer in terms of mobility between a mobula and a squid. At one point, I had a janky double harpoon mobula and my gunner fired the harpoon on the opposite side from where the squid was going (to that 'squid strong side' that every mobula pilot knows all too well) and the result was me getting pulled around to maintain my own arcs on the squid. I suddenly saw a use for the harpoon mounted asymmetrically on a mobula.

So this is my thesis towards harpoon adjustments: You're looking for a sort of inverse of the minotaur. Something that can be used to disrupt enemy movements using pulling rather than pushing as well as being capable of placing pressure on the balloon. I'd emphasize that the issue be taken to the extreme: when you land a shot on a hull, shit will be torqued about. When you land a shot on a balloon, it's as good as a lumberjack shot. But you have to distinguish the difference, because that 4 second reload per one shot is something to be reckoned with, not to mention the potential detriment of hooking a hull shot when you're trying to get further away, not closer. Or when you're trying to descend for cover but the harpoon hooks their hull instead of slowing their balloon down and you get pulled upwards. All of that needs to be taken into account and if the harpoon doesn't force you to do that, then we're all boned.

another side note: I'm not sure why we're looking about buffing cannonade arcs AND heavy clip. When the Heavy Carronade was OP and people were talking about a nerf, I suggested nerfing the arcs in particular. What wound up happening was the carronade arcs, damage, and heavy clip were ALL nerfed. Only one of those needed to happen. Hell, give me heavy clip -100% jitter and take another 5 degrees off the sideways arcs off the heavy carronade and I'll be happy. That way I can have the lovely light carronade that I used to love and we can keep the heavy carronade in check.

also, let's test one thing at a time, shall we? We keep testing multiple things at a time and the results get skewed. This week the extra heavy carronade arcs may have been a little bit underappreciated because of the effectiveness of the harpoon at balloon pressure in a wide variety of circumstances. That's not to mention, I don't think we're respecting how ammo adjustments are effecting every individual gun. The heavy clip nerf was mostly aimed at the heavy carronade, but it also brought with it changes to the hwacha and major reductions to the light carronade. I heard talks of a nerf to burst rounds' clip capacity while introducing an 'extended clip'. The idea was: use burst round when you want AoE and use extended clip when you want a bigger clip. Right now Burst serves both of those functions, BUT... At the current stage of the game that change would be a huge nerf to the hwacha which isn't really necessary. Or, reverse the hwacha to older stats when the projectiles moved faster and THEN make that change. We're playing around with too many variables at one time, even in the latest testing.

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Feedback and Suggestions / Re: A cry for change
« on: January 16, 2017, 07:57:46 pm »
I'm rather glad this post exists. I'm rather glad a lot of people have shown that they agree with this post because I and most of the people I know have been saying precisely this for years. Two years ago, this game seemed to have the monopoly on team-based, multi-role, ship-centric combat. Now games like Pulsar, World's Adrift, Black Wake, among others stand to out-rite replace GoIO for many of us. Hell, when you look at World's Adrift, you see Adventure mode as it was laid out by muse 4 years ago taking shape. Except better.

When discussing this thread with some friends who used to play GoIO, someone suggested 'nitty gritty things like hours spent carfefully rebalancing and testing keep the old guard happy but they don't keep the lights on'. This indicates to me that a lot of the issues we're running into as a community with muse has to do with it's business model. They've got micro-transactions, yes, but primarily they rely on sales of the game. That puts them in a place where developing new content and continuously balancing it doesn't bring in revenue. Creating a new game and selling it does. This is why I don't say what I'm about to say lightly or with malice and I want to be as helpful as possible when I make this suggestion:

Muse is going to go bankrupt if they can't give people a reason to stick around and play Skirmish. Alliance isn't going to keep people interested, it's not going to bring enough new people into the game to keep muse afloat. I promise. Introduce new REAL content for skirmish, introduce a tech tree with micro-transactions to help fund the muse team while creating new content for a game people have already paid for, and maybe. MAYBE then muse stands a chance. But I'm afraid muse has already shot themselves in the foot and let it become gangrenous. My projection, Muse shuts its doors by May 2018. But that's not a bad thing. Then the team can take their new(ish)found collective experiences and go on to do bigger and better things.


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