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Messages - QKO

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The Pit / Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« on: October 02, 2013, 01:41:09 pm »
Behavior you just described is one of the chief problems in the structure that is "not welcoming to new players".

The fact that players feel like it is appropriate or justified in being "very hostile" to other people at any point is truly asinine. Treating another person differently based on their skill level, or style or play is unacceptable. Consistently making bad decisions?  Next time imagine if you were actually in a room with this person playing a board game perhaps, or a game of soccer/football. Even if they were making poor decisions based on their skill, or just less interested in the game at hand it wouldn't give you the right to be rude or have a "fallout". Find another lobby, make sure you are playing strictly with friends, or ask the player to join a more casual lobby. 

God forbid every new player doesn't buy the game with a $300 mouse and gaming computer looking to memorize the metas, reach tournament level and become a professional GOIO player. Instead of lamenting every casual player that enters the game why don't we take some responsibility for the way *we treat newer players as well* regardless of what their goals are in game.
I must say, you are very creative and very liberal with words. So I'm going to ask you: please don't put words in my mouth. I'm enough of an asshole without your help.

Furthermore, I never said flaming, raging, etc is a good thing. But I am saying that stuff like this happens. And that for the players that truly care, this abuse is targeted at malfunctioning players. If after 5 minutes of idiocies, my gunner tells me that the person causing trouble is sitting in his gun, I will shout that guy off. In turn, even I get shouted at for stuff I shouldn't have done; and instead of moping about that on the forums, I realize some other factors can be active here and that the player giving me the lecture has good intentions. That is me, I've been on both sides and I know what the captain is dealing with and I know what crewmembers are dealing with. I don't start off yelling at people and if players here claim they don't notice that, it's because they refuse to listen to anyone that isn't shouting.

Now your board game analogy. It's obvious you've never been even remotely competitive playing board games, card games, sport games that rely on teamplay. Otherwise you would know that if you were to dick around, you aren't welcome for long. The situations in these type of games still can go to a phase where people start yelling at eachother for numerous of reasons. Yet, it's less frequent because such games are usually among friends rather than strangers that wish to fuck around and annoy eachother.

Lets continue with your 300 dollar mouse remark. And I keep saying this and I know I speak for pretty much everyone: I do not care about your hardware, I don't care about the operating system you're playing this game on. Your headset can be pink, lila, magenta, or everything at the same time. I do not care. What I do care about is that you respect your captain, listen to him and communicate with your crew. Essentially, I ask of you and everyone playing this game to uphold a certain kind of standards that any respectable person should have. I'm not asking you to be good, I'm asking you to try and I want people to be willing to learn.

The Pit / Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« on: October 01, 2013, 09:19:50 pm »
Fragmenting the community is not a good solution to issues. New players learn best from nice, understanding good players. I'm still pretty new to this game, level 4 on my highest role. And when I was brand new, I learned the most when manning the ship of experienced captains. There were a couple early games where my captain saw I was a level 1/2 engineer. In response, they didn't get mad at me when I made mistakes. They said things like "When the hull gets hurt, repairing it is the top priority." Not in a mean nasty way, just stating a fact that I as an engineer should know. And I learned from their advice, and by the end of one of my runs on a ship the captain was confident enough in my engineering to burn kerosine 24/7 while his other 2 crew manned the guns. Had he just complained "my engines are down, stop sucking engineer" I would not have picked up a lot of the skills I did. That game was where I learned about how to prioritize, and had my first lesson in engi parkour.
This is like reply number 50 which explains their own experienced how they, as motivated players, learned the game. You keep missing the point that no two people are the same and unlike you, there's quite a few people not even remotely interested in playing the actual game and instead treat the game like a cafe. (Though, those numbers have dropped). Other than that, I cannot say I know you, so I'm not sure in what group you'd fit. The supposed newbie pool would be there for slow learners. That way some less abled players(most notably those that are 10-13 years old, but also some older folks who don't have a gaming background)  can get up to speed in an environment that has lower standards. The regular pool is a pool that has relatively high standards. Even now, if I ask around, no one really has any patience for players that just don't care. These players have been the cause of numerous fallouts between captain and crew and even now is still enough of a nuisance that can create a bad environment even for people like you.

And I'm not going to call myself any sort of saint, but I'm definitely not the only one that can end up being very hostile to players that do other things than instructed by me as a pilot. Even as a crew member I've had fallouts with players that were not following captain's orders or captains that were consistently making bad decisions or ignored some very important calls from their crewmembers. As my prediction to how this would end up has been wrong, I'm dropping this for now.

But I still do not feel that the game in structure is welcoming to new players. You had the fortunate ability to play with experienced crew that were willing to help you and you seized the opportunity. The next noob might not be so lucky. And yes, I'll bring up games like DotA and LoL again, have you tried to get into those games? Learn them? Get better? Because it's a real pain there. It can take years there on what can be attained in GoIO or even Guilty Gear in mere months. That is something I still feel we should be careful of.

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: If you're here, who's flying the ship?
« on: September 24, 2013, 03:47:22 am »
Fun fact (which is not really a fact, just a general observation): Captains often are the ones to leave first.
Yes; and it's because they have to deal with the shit that some of their crewmembers pull on them.

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: If you're here, who's flying the ship?
« on: September 24, 2013, 01:31:00 am »
Any number in games left is one too many.
2. Relocate — Leave the problem player behind by moving to a new lobby when the match is over. (If necessary, you can bring the match to a quicker end by explaining the issue to your team and surrendering, which is always preferred to abandoning a game in progress.) You can invite other players in the match to a party and take the whole gang to a new match in crew formation, leaving the troll alone in the cold.
Ah, they changed this. So Muse really is moving to turning this into a rage game?

People leave, get over it. If it isn't for real life problems, lag issues and power outs, it's usually because they really really really hate their crew. Don't want your captain to leave? Do the fuck he tells you. Easy as that.

Gameplay / Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« on: September 22, 2013, 01:45:06 pm »
Hm ok i should have done the total match b4. I expected you to get over 700 dmg with charged but its just 682. The pyra has 700 health so u need to add some dmg with ur secondary weapon. If thats a gat that makes 6 extra shots from the gat. Caught me a bid there ^^.
With buff its actually 818 dmg. So you can kill a ship with one clip if you get the right timing and so on. Cause pyra has 700 and spire has 750.
Oh and according to some patch notes the mob has actually 600 Hull health ... ;).
Not sure how high the armor values are for the rest of ships but the squid got just 220.
Would assume sth in the 400-450. That would give you the posibility to kill a enemy instantly at a range of 600 (possible to hit every shot i think) if you get to point two mercs and a light flak at the enemy. And thats sth a mob or even a good team can do.
But well its much of theory here.
Its the point if you want the flak to fit the same role as the mortar or not.
Yes the flak needs a buff. But i think its not the dmg that needs one. I say its the range. Get it to sth 1500+ and it is a good sniper weapon. It doesnt have to do the same as the mortar. Kill in one clip. In the case its a real sniper weapon and not just have double the range of the mortar thats fine. At least for me ...
A sniper doesnt have to kill with one clip. That would be pretty unfair if you ask me.
There's already the artemis for that range.  The damage buff by itself still means the ship can be repaired in time before a full clip can be fired meaning that effectively, you'd be more likely to get 4 proper hits(like it was in the previous patch) unless they have more hull armor, which where you can get like 5 or maybe 6. Furthermore, having to go through all the effort of special rounds, buffing and getting the right distance due to arming time, only adds to why the mortar is staying the superior choice for everyone (and their mother). The gun is easier to aim, but it just doesn't kill anything.

Gameplay / Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« on: September 22, 2013, 10:35:39 am »
One clip of light flak (not buffed no ammo) deals actual 630 dmg to a unarmored hull.
If we now take ammo into consideration it probably can kill most ships within one clip.
Now go to the ship list and point out to me which ship has less than 630 hp.

Gameplay / Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« on: September 22, 2013, 08:13:30 am »
The light flak has way more velocity, precision and rate of fire. Three seconds of fire and one second of travel time easily allow a 1 clip kill on all but the goldfish, galleon or squid. In what way do you think it should be improved?
I'd like to see it back to its previous damage(per shot) or at least have it improved half way. And no, without buffing(I haven't tested this with buffing) you cannot kill the goldfish, galleon or squid. Those ships all have more hp than the practice dummy. And bringing us back to the mortar: more damage per shot, more shots and an easier arc as it is now. So that thing kills within 8 shots, that's half its clip.

Gameplay / Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« on: September 21, 2013, 08:40:42 pm »
I do not agree with how the flak has been modified. Now it is still a weaker weapon than the mortar (which has a damage buff no less) and it's even more likely that the hull armor is up before the necessary amount of rounds are expended.

General Discussion / Re: SEeeeEEEccreet
« on: September 20, 2013, 01:11:55 pm »
Half-Life 3 confirmed!

Guns of Icarus Online IS Half-life 3! *twist* secrets out, and the next guns i'm working on are the portal gun and gravity gun. . .
Haah, portal gun in Icarus would be hilarious!

General Discussion / Re: Question for Pilots
« on: September 19, 2013, 10:02:03 am »
Most: Pyramidion, Least: Junker

General Discussion / Re: Raising consciousness for "stacking" !
« on: September 19, 2013, 02:01:40 am »
Actually that sounds intersting, have a game mode (or an agreement) where winning teams have to change ship types after they win and can't chose that ship type again until their opponent beats them.

...what happens if you win with all the ship types?
Then we send the opponents back to the newbie pool!

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Minigun fix
« on: September 17, 2013, 11:12:36 am »
But the ship momentum is kind of backwards in a way. A lot of times due to the bullets using the ships velocity you have to aim behind a target instead of leading it. If you're on the side of a junker making a maneuver you have to seriously stop and think about the way the "physics" of the gatling gun work. You won't lead the shots? You'll...follow them?
This is the prime reason why captains should pull any weird maneuvers when their guns are firing. I can get really good accuracy, but I will still miss half a clip if captain decides to go from turning left to turning right or decides to adjust the altitude via chute vent.

Since this is a suggestion thread, maybe we can have a G-force indicator? Since the guns auto turn when the ship turns, there's no way for a gunner to tell that his ship is changing behavior other than firing rounds in the wrong direction.

General Discussion / Re: GoI Players are Rude.
« on: September 14, 2013, 09:09:07 am »
I've never denied that people like this exist. I have, however, disagreed with you on just how prevalent these people are. Frankly? I haven't met all that many of them, and for the record, I do actually play this game. You are taking an insignificantly small section of the player population, blowing it way out of proportion and then reacting as if there's some sort of epidemic of awful that threatens to overwhelm all the right-thinking and well-meaning players who actually communicate and are willing to learn.

There is not, and treating the situation as if it does exist is a sure way to drive otherwise potentially great players away from the game for good.

I'm also not denying that a captain's job is to help coordinate and teach their crew, and that if said crew isn't listening then the ship will be weaker. (in fact, that's exactly what I've been saying) I was reacting to a series of posts in which people were mocking that subset of new players who may have come into the game after mostly playing FPS games. My intent was to show how those players may have different expectations of the game, based on their understanding of what a game is, and how that should affect the ways we reach out to them. Obviously, no amount of good sportsmanship and well-meant advice is going to reach those who don't want to be taught, but it can sometimes be hard to distinguish between the genuine 'bad eggs' and those who are merely confused about what the game is asking of them.

Finally, your point about packing up and going home when someone's not willing to listen no matter how much you try to explain things to them? You're absolutely right! In fact...
I'm seeing the average of one of every game. Sometimes they come in pairs, sometimes they come in quartets. Sometimes they are found in my team and sometimes they are found in the opposing team. And yes, they are easily spotted when they are running around with a 4 hwacha + 2 mortar galleon. I can even tell them it won't work and they will even become offensive to you; sometimes even saying you don't know what you're talking about. I have had people that were set on ignoring me on my crew, I've had them as a fellow captain. Some people ignored me until I yelled at them and then they complain about me yelling at them. There's regular occurrences of block worthy voicecom users, sometimes they are even on your team. Feel free to tag along a few times if you want, I'll be happy to show you.

You guys are kinda wasting your time. Check his post history, all this QKO cat does is argue.
It's kind of stupid to enter a discussion to tell people you agree isn't it?

General Discussion / Re: GoI Players are Rude.
« on: September 13, 2013, 10:01:19 pm »
No, I didn't say that players who don't learn quick enough are intentional fuckups. You're twisting my words just so you can disagree with me. You follow up with the stuff that all of us are already doing. There is a group of people that try to take advice and try to execute it to their best extend. They don't get yelled at by me, they don't get yelled at by anyone other respectable player. There is however, this distinct group (if you play the game you would meet them) that just ignores you and ignores your advice. No matter how patient you are, there will always be that idiot that simply doesn't react to reason or refuses to acknowledge you until you start yelling at him(yes, I get those too). Some rarities even manage to ignore you after you started yelling at them. My job as captain is to direct my crew and coordinate with my teammates. If my crew does not listen, my ship does not fly to its full capabilities. And as such my ship is essentially weaker than my opponent's; because one should always assume that the opposing team does work as a unit. This is not harsh, this is just how teamgames work. One of the players not doing his job? Pack up and go home. It really is that simple.

General Discussion / Re: GoI Players are Rude.
« on: September 13, 2013, 07:42:59 pm »
I think you guys are being a little harsh to to some of these newer players. Yeah, a lot of people come into the game and don't really understand what it's about, but can you really blame them?

We, as gamers, are conditioned to see the individual as the basic building block of competitive play. Even on games that encourage 'teamwork,' you're still mostly playing as an individual whose actions contribute to the team. In many of those, sufficiently good performance on your own is enough to carry a team, even without a lot of explicit cooperation. And yes, in games like Call of Duty, "teams" are often just a collection of people who don't shoot at each other, and don't have to engage in any kind of collective strategy at all.

In GoIO, the individual is not the basic building block of play- the ship is. I can be the best gunner in the world, but if I don't have a captain that can point the ship at the enemy, I contribute nothing. And the best engineer in the world can only enforce a stalemate, unless/until the gunners kill the enemy. Finally, a captain is often only as good as his crew- you can lead a ship to the enemy, but you can't make people shoot them.

My point here is, if you don't know much about the game before coming, it's not that hard to see why people don't really 'get' right away just how much collective action is important in this game. Of those people, some will get good advice that they'll take to heart, becoming valuable members of the community. Some will learn a little bit on their own, and at least not be actively awful. And yes, some will refuse to learn anything at all about what makes this game different, and either make trolls of themselves (in which case you should block them) or give up and leave. And then they're not (y)our problem anymore.
I don't know what CoD you've been playing. But CoD4, when it was still competitive, definitely had team organisation which is mandatory. The same thing applies to CS. If players just do whatever they want in those games, the team is going to die. There is no "I'll just score 5 headshots" when your opposing team is as strong as you are.

Also, don't forget that a team consists of individuals, they usually work together to achieve a goal, or just point fingers and blame eachother. But the players still remain the most basic building blocks, Together they become a unit that control 1 ship and that ship has to cooperate with 1,2 or 3 more ships to achieve a goal. This is a very pragmatic view, which means it's correct:P Sadly, it also means that it takes on individual to weaken a full team and some weaknesses are harder to compensate for than others.

We are not harsh on newcomers. When newcomers join, they can make mistakes. But you can tell mistakes from intentional fuckups. When a player is not listening, it is not a mistake, if that player refuses to accept your advice, it is not a mistake... Disobedience is what makes a crew weak and a captain has the job to deal with those people. Sadly, to my knowledge, besides leaving and yelling there aren't many options. And so yes, yelling can seem harsh, but it's the only immediate tool available to fix any weakness within the team. It's not like I never get yelled at or get lectured on my behavior on a ship. It just happens less because I understand my role and understand my captain's responsibilities.

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