Messages

1

General Discussion / Re: On the subject of vote kick...

« on: January 25, 2017, 02:19:03 pm »

The lack of vote kick is a mistake, the exclusivity argument is a myth.

It's really, really not. The experience I remember with vote kicking in an online multiplayer game: Someone in Left 4 Dead was being rude and dismissive and just talking about how much all the other players suck -- despite not actually being very good -- and no-one seemed to enjoy having him around. I voted to kick after a while. Was voted down. He team-kills me in retaliation, leading to us losing moments away from clearing the map, and then manages to blame me for the loss and get me vote-kicked.

I haven't actually seen or heard of vote-kicking being used as anything but a tool for trolling and elitism, causing more problems than it solves. I'm not sure it can be, given the atmosphere of largely-uncurated online gaming and the danger of putting such power in the hands of a majority with no checks. ALmost any such player-driven control tool has inevitably been abused to hurt people who have playstyles that are less preferred, who are new and learning, or who try to use it to actually combat trolls and raise the level of the community.

This community appears to already be racing to the bottom to compete with Counterstrike and League of Legends in toxic hostility, but a vote kick would only hasten that.

Welcome to the forums Nezumi, we always appreciate more opinions here on the forums,  especially from newer players. However swing as you have admittedly never played the multiplayer part of the game, and that being what this thread is specifically concerning we do enjoy the opinions more of you have some actuall experience with the topic at hand.

Except I didn't draw on anything about the game in particular, but broader patterns in online gaming and my own personal experiences. I've had more fun with friendly, helpful groups that failed, even if it could sometimes be irritating, than unhelpful but technically proficient groups. I fondly remember a PUG I tried to fight Titan with in Final Fantasy XIV that never managed to succeed, but largely worked together, supported each other, and discussed tactics... but I don't fondly remember groups in MMOs that played well, but rushed ahead without me without warning if I tried to do sidequests, watch cutscenes, or actually read what quest NPCs say.

And every instance of such hostility I've seen toward "trolls" or "clueless newbies" actually extends to any new player or one who plays differently, and my experiences with the Steam Discussion community for this game don't suggest this is the sole exception.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe something about this game so dramatically changes these broad patterns that I'm completely off-base... but I kinda doubt it.

Still, I might give the game a shot and see.

P.S: Insistence on using voice chat is an issue, as it ignores people with disabilities and trans people who may not yet have a voice they're comfortable with. It's usually best to leave at least the sound of it on if you don't have serious anxiety issues, but not everyone will talk on it for a variety of reasons.

2

General Discussion / Re: On the subject of vote kick...

« on: January 23, 2017, 06:32:47 pm »

The general tone of this topic makes me think that not having vote to kick is the right choice, even above and beyond Muse's pretty solid arguments. When you're sounding like a bully from a children's cartoon or a cut monologue by the villain from the new Ghostbusters, you might want to rethink your position, starting with "Are we the baddies?"

P.S: Yes, innocent new players are the real victims -- in that people will bully the hell out of them just for being new, with the excuse that they're "trolls" or "hopeless" rather than just learning. Hell, I had someone go after me in that tack because I criticized their saying they need to use toxicity to police the community of "bad" players, even though, as I alluded to earlier, I have yet to actually play outside tutorials and the sandbox practice thing. And the frothing hatred of new players and concern-trolling about how it's really for their sake isn't exactly making me want to dive into the game.

You want to know why there's so few players? It's not the trolls. It's not the lack of vote kick. It's not the "clueless newbies." It's the mass of bitter, hateful bullies who will go after them for any misstep or effort to learn the game, or not playing exactly how they say they should. People get interested in the game (like I finally did after it kicking around in my Steam library for ages), then they see that's what the community is like now, and they say "Yeah, no."