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1

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Make Classes more Unique (and prevent 3 man hull tanking)

« on: May 20, 2013, 04:06:31 pm »

Please read all of it before posting, as I said just earlier your not going to get kills, your going to be a time sink until the other person comes along and attacks your attacker. The game is not entirely 1v1s most games involve atleast 2v2 so you may not get a kill in this instance but you wont give a kill neither, and the other team will just sit there vulnerable attempting to kill you until your teammate finally comes along and returns the favor. Im far from the only one who thinks that the game ends too often in stalemate ragequits do to this issue. And id really appreciate it if I got less "Im an old player your just a noob I know whats best" mentality in terms of feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3N20k0zlgw
*because its funny yet sadly true in some ways*

its not that people are saying they know whats best. they are saying that it is impossible to keep a hull up indefinitely if the armor keeps going down. earlier you said people will just sit on the sand and keep the hull up, while it is possible to keep it up for a while, the math does not work for indefinite hull repairing.

When the armor goes down, it takes X amount of time to get it back up no matter how many you have repairing it, that window of perma hull health damage may be small but it is there. if someone is sitting on the sand as you said earlier they are taking constant damage. that means during that small opening some perma hull damage is being done. if that cycle continues eventually the ship will just run out of health even without any outside input of damage.

that is the reason people suggested you shoot their baloon ( so they cant get up and eventually die) or have your teammate attack the same target as you (so more damage can be done during the perma hull windows or so the perma hull windows can come around more often.)

I dont think people are trying to be rude, I'm just not sure people are understanding what you mean because the math doesn't add up.

Well the math from what ive seen is 3 players, pipe wrenches have 4 rebuild (only 1 shy of the wrench). Which on average from experience ive seen the hull back up in 1.5 seconds. Most guns take longer than 1.5 seconds to reload. Especially the manticore and most all low deck guns you can put on the Galleon. So unless you are running the win combo (chain+flack) there is very little room for error in terms of hitting the actual hull for damage. The ship may take constant damage on the sand but its barely noticeable given how quickly the armor comes back on line. So "eventually" yes they will die if left unhelped but that eventually I have seen first hand go on for 10 minutes. 10 minutes is a lot of time for their ally to see you standing in place and come attack you.

Alot of the games in pubs end in rage-quit stalemates or 1 sided victories, that much I hope is understood by the community. If not then we have a long bridge to gap. If they do understand that much then why? Maybe half of it is incompetent players sure, but whats the other half?  Surely this is a prevalent issue and all is not well and dandy as some here want us to believe. This is what I frequently experience and why I have seen teams I have played with leave.

2

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Make Classes more Unique (and prevent 3 man hull tanking)

« on: May 20, 2013, 03:51:09 pm »

What's preventing the teammate of the attacker from getting there at the same time? If there's a ship that's sitting there without attacking at all, both ships are going to see it as an easy target and attack it. No amount of rebuilding will keep it alive against double ship focus. It won't take very much time at all to kill.

I have yet to see that in normal games, maybe in the pro end of the game sure, I bet its no problem with built teams and parties, but pros and pubs are too different birds please try to relate. only a small percentage of the game is pros the rest is pubs, and this is an issue with the pubs is typically ships will set off on 1v1, get locked in turtle mode, then the enemies teammate will see you sitting there pounding them and set course for you with your ally in toe. After he pounds you, his ally repairs and leaves, and the vicious cycle continues. Usually ending in whole teams ragequitting after 1 hour of gameplay.

3

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Make Classes more Unique (and prevent 3 man hull tanking)

« on: May 20, 2013, 03:39:23 pm »

Please read all of it before posting, as I said just earlier your not going to get kills, your going to be a time sink until the other person comes along and attacks your attacker. The game is not entirely 1v1s most games involve atleast 2v2 so you may not get a kill in this instance but you wont give a kill neither, and the other team will just sit there vulnerable attempting to kill you until your teammate finally comes along and returns the favor. Im far from the only one who thinks that the game ends too often in stalemate ragequits do to this issue. And id really appreciate it if I got less "Im an old player your just a noob I know whats best" mentality in terms of feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3N20k0zlgw
*because its funny yet sadly true in some ways*

4

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Make Classes more Unique (and prevent 3 man hull tanking)

« on: May 20, 2013, 03:18:15 pm »

Please dont try to think you know how I have been playing or who I have been playing with by my rank, its misleading and also incorrect to do. Ive played with level 8-10 captains on standard pyramidans to crazy flamer goldfish designs. Ive seen more than enough normal time to know this issue because its not that prevalent in noob town (noob town is just ragequits and captians who dont fly their own ships). Anyway aside from "win builds" anything else has an extremely hard time dealing with turtling. To the point where your "high level captains" you claim I dont fly with just move on or get hit by their teammate. Only so that we can end up doing the same turtle maneuver a few feet away from the ship we just beached. Ironic huh? Its far too effective and drags out games longer than they should be. The unrepairable hull is there to prevent constant survival but the speed that the armor can be rebuilt is almost a shield of its own. As where the only real counter is a chaingun/flack combo which is already absurdly effective as is.

5

Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Make Classes more Unique (and prevent 3 man hull tanking)

« on: May 20, 2013, 02:32:07 pm »

Ok from what im seeing alot of people are missing how 3 man hull tanking works and its effectiveness.

Yes, there is no damage output on a 3 man hull tank, but it is also nearly impossible to destroy without a well made anti-armor anti-hull combo. So many a times youll find them sitting on the sand just hull tanking for a solid 10 minutes and unable to be killed even with a Galleon on broad side hitting it with both guns non-stop. Ive heard more tales but ive seen it myself a good 10 times in my short carrier. So dont think the "shoot the engines/balloon" works because they can easily sit in the sand and tank till you get bored.

As for gunner I still find the versatility of the ammos to be moot at best. Most builds have the Chinese rocket launcher, a chaingun, or a flak involved. The rocket typically only needs the heavy ammo to be effective at actually hitting, sure its not "max damage" at point plank but every shot hitting is a good compensation. The chaingun is the same with heavy rounds being the most useful and charge rounds being usefull when you are close enough to make every shot hit. But still heavy rounds is the universal here. Flak is amost the same with explosive rounds being the more annoying round to use. But still heavy rounds will do you good to remove the spread. So any good engineer will carry heavy rounds and be nearly as good as a gunner.

6

Feedback and Suggestions / Make Classes more Unique (and prevent 3 man hull tanking)

« on: May 20, 2013, 12:57:50 am »

Im sure anyone who has played gets annoyed how a 3 man engineer team with the 1 gunner skill needed to man the main guns can easily outgun and crazyily out-tank everyone. On top of that the gunner feels very trivial usually only needing one type of ammo to compensate for their main gun. My suggestion is to make the classes more unique.

For the captain, No engineer slot, or gunner slot, 5 captain slots.

For the Engineer, One Captain slot (for sightglass), 4 engineer slots, 0 gunner slots

For the Gunner, One Captain slot (again sightglass), 3 Gunner slots, and only a choice between a weak all around repair item (not the wrench its too good at rebuild), hammer, or fire extinguisher.
On top of that make the gunner abilities considerably better than the default ammo. Since only the gunner can use it, it makes a reason to not have all engineers.

As it stands right now firefights against teams who either drop guns and go full repairs on retreat or already have multiple engineers are considerably hard to take down if not impossible at times without the Pyramidian win combo. The problem stems from too many people working together to instant rebuild hull, making it so they constantly tank the next volley even if they loose the armor seconds later. Since with two people either pipe+pipe or pipe+wrench takes around 2-3 seconds to rebuild. The cooldown system works wonders but the rebuild system is making games infuriatingly long if after 6+ volleys of double rocket launcher barrages they still look like they havent take a hit of worth of hull damage it feels rather underpowered compared to the repair capabilities of multiple engineers/people with the tools.