Messages

1

Gameplay / Re: Lumberjack Discussion

« on: May 26, 2013, 02:01:27 am »

@ Belcard I do like those changes, but the LJ would still be capable of dumping 1000 more damage on someones head from a mile away. Just pointing that out

Plus, it isn't hard to snipe with an LJ.

But it's quite a bit harder to hit the target from that far away, and you're not guaranteed the hit unlike how the weapon is currently being used. Which is barely beyond arming range. Keeping a ship bouncing on the ground so both, if not all, the ship's Engineers are instantly put into damage control mode and the ship is, by any means, worthless.

With six shots and a reasonably decent reload speed, it doesn't matter if you miss a few. You'll get it eventually. And when you do... Oh man, the other team is screwed!

But that's not the point. The point is it'd still be more difficult to hit the target due to the speed of the Lumberjack's shot. Sure, you could speed it up with Lesmok rounds, but that's beside the point I'm trying to make.

Target is farther away, takes longer for the shot to travel the distance, more difficult to predict for enemy ship's behavior. Hydrogen, Chute Vent, Moonshine, or Kerosene could cause the shot to miss just as easily as if the gunner's aim had been off.

But again, that's not the point.

The point is the Lumberjack being abused in closer-ranged fights to pop the opposing ship's balloon in 2-3 shots and keep it popped permanently, then proceeding to tear through both armor and permahull while the balloon is down and the target ship is barely moving at all.

Pre-buff the Lumberjack had a grand total of 2,200 damage versus balloons. Post-buff, as it stands, it has 3,300. It just needs to be brought back into line. They added two shots to the clip because people were complaining they couldn't kill balloons with it (Because they either sucked at aiming with it or needed a couple test shots to dial in the exact angle to fire at to hit the ship) without balancing the damage to match. If they simply reduced the flechette damage on the Lumberjack to 200, this entire mess would more than likely be resolved.

2

Gameplay / Re: Lumberjack Discussion

« on: May 26, 2013, 01:50:31 am »

@ Belcard I do like those changes, but the LJ would still be capable of dumping 1000 more damage on someones head from a mile away. Just pointing that out

Plus, it isn't hard to snipe with an LJ.

But it's quite a bit harder to hit the target from that far away, and you're not guaranteed the hit unlike how the weapon is currently being used. Which is barely beyond arming range. Keeping a ship bouncing on the ground so both, if not all, the ship's Engineers are instantly put into damage control mode and the ship is, by any means, worthless.

3

Gameplay / Re: Lumberjack Discussion

« on: May 26, 2013, 01:37:43 am »

I would think that changing balloon HP would take a dump on the viability of shotgun weapons.

Suggested fix

Barking Dog: Increase clip count from 5 to 6 to provide a total of 2,227.2 balloon-specific damage
(192 x 1.8 = 345.6) + (128 x 0.2 = 25.6) = 371.2 x 6 = 2,227.2

Hellhound: Increase clip count from 2 to 4 to provide a total of 2,624 balloon-specific damage
(340 x 1.8 = 612) + (220 x 0.2 = 44) = 656 x 4 = 2,624

4

Gameplay / Re: Lumberjack Discussion

« on: May 26, 2013, 01:07:02 am »

For the sake of being thorough, my original post: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,771.msg20161.html#msg20161

As an afterthought, if Muse really wants to leave the Lumberjack as it is, I thought of a third course of action they can take. Instead of tweaking or changing the Lumberjack from where it stands, perhaps doing an overhaul of balloon HP might be worth looking into.

Example

Squid: 900 - Two shots to pop the balloon
Spire: 1,200 - Three shots to pop the balloon
Goldfish: 1,400 - Three shots to pop the balloon
Pyramidion: 1,700 - Four shots to pop the balloon
Junker: 2,000 - Four shots to pop the balloon
Galleon: 2,400 -  Five shots to pop the balloon

5

Gameplay / Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2

« on: May 25, 2013, 11:28:51 pm »

Before, the LJ only had 4 shots.  However, this was increased because most players could not hit with the LJ before their clip ran out.  The first few shots were always used as gauging ones.  I don't have plans changing this because it doesn't seem like a lot of other players are using the LJ in this manner be it difficulty or what.  Until it becomes an issue, when a lot of players are abusing it, then there is no reason for me to change it.

Until then, I applaud your skill with it and please continue to ruin people's days with it.

This post is aimed at Awkm in particular, though anybody should feel free to reply to address issues within. Also please note, I mean no offense to anyone with what I'm about to say.


The gist of what Awkm said strikes me as "People were bitching that they couldn't hit shit with the Lumberjack so we increased the clip count to compensate for their poor aiming ability."


At a glance, the Lumberjack feels and operates like a long-range balloon-popping weapon. Meant to shred an enemy ship's balloon, it more than excels at its job. However, that's not the problem. The problem comes into play once your ship's balloon has been popped by said Lumberjack and the ship continues to hover just beyond the arming distance for the weapon and keep popping your balloon the moment it's repaired.

This leads into the ever-frustrating scenario of bouncing around on the ground, virtually helpless, until you either die or an allied ship saves you, given they haven't also had their balloon popped or aren't otherwise engaged with an enemy ship. Not to mention that once the balloon is down, the Lumberjack easily begins stripping away the armor on your ship, sending all the Engineers on board into repair mode which, as I've previously stated, virtually disables you from fighting back.


Now, along the same path of disabling an enemy ship, dual Hwacha Galleons can wreak total havoc on an enemy ship's guns with a single barrage. However, unlike the Lumberjack, Hwachas deal almost no armor damage but can just about insta-gib permahull while the Lumberjack can rip through balloon, armor, and permahull with relative ease.

The difference comes from the fact once the balloon is down, a captain only needs to keep their ship out of the firing arcs of the ship with a disabled balloon. Then on top of that, the damage from the Lumberjack's shots transfer into armor, then into permahull. Meaning a single Lumberjack can hit for upwards of 600-700 damage with a full clip. The Hwacha, on the other hand, only really excels in destroying weapons and engines. It doesn't transfer damage that fast to the armor or hull.


Getting to the point here..

Using the numbers on the website, we can agree the Lumberjack deals 300 x 1.8 (540) flechette damage and 50 x 0.2 (10) shatter damage. This means it has a total balloon damage of 550. This means that before, with four shells, the Lumberjack had a total of 2,200 damage versus balloons. After the buff to six shells, the Lumberjack now deals 3,300 damage versus balloons.

This means that there are two major choices to bring the weapon back in line with the damage it had pre-buff..

Option A) Reduce the Lumberjack's flechette damage to 200

Option B) Revert the Lumberjack back to four shells in a clip


TL;DR - Lumberjack was a weapon that required skill to use, people lacked the skill, complained because they didn't want to use a less skill-intensive weapon and got the weapon changed into a state of overpowered proportions.

FIX IT