Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Jazzza on February 24, 2013, 04:16:43 am
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The invisible walls of Duel at Dawn need to be extended. When you collide with it on the north (I think) side of the map, it turns your ship into one of the big metal structures causing you serious damage. It also adds confusion (we had all 4 ships of a 2v2 trying to get around that structure, all colliding).
Ontop of that, can there be some kind of indicator of where the invisible walls are? Maybe some small text at the top of the screen with a warning or something.
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What, like the edge of the map? If you don't know where they are, look at the map :P
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I know exactly this spot and it's been the death of me on more then one occasion. Can't stand feeding kills to the terrain.
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What, like the edge of the map? If you don't know where they are, look at the map :P
It's kind of hard when you're piloting the ship and engaged in battle. In many instances I've had to abandon my mouse to fly my ship with two hands on my keyboard. I don't have time to check my map.
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What, like the edge of the map? If you don't know where they are, look at the map :P
It's kind of hard when you're piloting the ship and engaged in battle. In many instances I've had to abandon my mouse to fly my ship with two hands on my keyboard. I don't have time to check my map.
You cant really blame anyone but yourself then for running your ship into the map edge. I know the spot you are talking about, and it can be pretty unforgiving, but remembering a spot on the map that you cant go around else you get grinded into debris should be pretty easy.
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You cant really blame anyone but yourself then for running your ship into the map edge. I know the spot you are talking about, and it can be pretty unforgiving, but remembering a spot on the map that you cant go around else you get grinded into debris should be pretty easy.
While I agree that it's not hard to remember once you know about it, it feels like something that shouldn't be occuring. It takes away from the experience. I think there should be a soft boundary that allows you to temporarily go beyond the map edges. After a certain period of time you ship is destroyed if you remain out of bounds.
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While I agree that it's not hard to remember once you know about it, it feels like something that shouldn't be occuring. It takes away from the experience. I think there should be a soft boundary that allows you to temporarily go beyond the map edges. After a certain period of time you ship is destroyed if you remain out of bounds.
These are technically soft boundaries that push you back into the correct area. I find that a lot more user friendly then a timer followed by your destruction because your boat didnt want to cooperate after you go out of bounds. The wind on some of the maps would also not help things when youve strayed too far.
Dual at dawn is the smallest map in the game. 99% of other matches, if youre hitting the map edge, you dont really know the game yet.
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I think inexplicably losing control of your ship because of an invisible wall is less user friendly by a long shot. If you can't get your ship under control within 30 seconds of going 'out-of-bounds' or whatnot I don't know what to say. Outright destruction as a penalty would probably be harsh, but there are other options.
And they are hard boundaries as they do not allow you to pass through and I didn't get a bounce back effect, it's just stops the ship. It is definitely an edge case as you said, but edge cases still have to be dealt with. It's especially bad with DAD because they often start you very close to the trap as it were.
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We can agree that destruction is a bad move to make, but other options remain. The introduction of wind to that map was a mistake in my opinion due to its cramped quarters. Having much control in there while still keeping pinned to the enemy is no small feat. It does bounce you (its very slight, and easiest seen while spectating a match) but if you keep ramming into the edge you will just drag along it until you hit a corner.
The borders there could stand to be expanded a touch to better accommodate 4 ships as if im not mistaken it was initially designed as a 1v1 map and then made a 2v2. The introduction of wind there has really changed the dynamic of the map. I apologize if i came off brash, as it sounded like at first you just didnt care for map edges at all.
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I thought I'd chime in here, since to be honest, this has actually always bothered me a bit as well. As a fairly experienced pilot I learned the hard way that you can't make it around that particular debris; the problem is that unfortunately it looks as if you can. I can't tell you how many times I tried to go around it to get an advantageous position on my enemy only to be inexorably slammed into the wall. Now in the scope of things this is admittedly a very minor issue in an otherwise brilliant map; but in a perfect world I'd love to either be able to go around the object in the first place or have a physical barrier that visually shows the pilot the impossibility of the maneuvers so it's never attempted at all.
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I thought I'd chime in here, since to be honest, this has actually always bothered me a bit as well. As a fairly experienced pilot I learned the hard way that you can't make it around that particular debris; the problem is that unfortunately it looks as if you can.
Putting an obstacle you avoid laterally by an invisible wall that impedes lateral movement is just bad game mechanics. It's annoying and frustrating to have to stare at the map to see whether or not I'm going to be forced into colliding with an obstacle. Nobody wants to have their gameplay reduced to staring at triangles on a .png.
You cant really blame anyone but yourself then for running your ship into the map edge. I know the spot you are talking about, and it can be pretty unforgiving, but remembering a spot on the map that you cant go around else you get grinded into debris should be pretty easy.
Expecting a player to remember a part where the game mechanics don't function properly as a way of addressing the problem is a pretty poor practice.
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i quite like this map especially with the wind makeing piloting more fun.
i do think the edge of the map where that big pillar is should be extended slightly or if not add something on the outside of the boundry like more wreckage to make it clear that you cant go around that side of it
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What caused me to report this issue is in a 2v2 match when every ship was attempting to go around that debris. It was stupid and I was quite frustrated.
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What caused me to report this issue is in a 2v2 match when every ship was attempting to go around that debris. It was stupid and I was quite frustrated.
Haha, we've all been there. I did it plenty in my first piloting days till i just remembered its not passable from the outside. Some kind of added debris to really show its not passable wouldnt hurt, but no need to go changing map edge mechanics for one spot on the smallest map, in my opinion. Maybe a slight increase to make it passable would also be viable.
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We don't have the manpower to change the map boundary mechanic. I'm also not going to change the level layout because that would necessitate redoing lightmapping which also takes a chunk of time our tech artist needs to do other things like making the game perform better for lower end machines.
The wall is not invisible, it is clearly indicated on the map screen. You fly outside (and you can even see your ship icon float outside sometimes) and you will start to get pushed back.
Although I will reexamine the map itself. I was given incorrect instructions many builds ago and have needed to go back and reformat the map images. If there is a problem with the image, it will be patched next round.
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Although I will reexamine the map itself. I was given incorrect instructions many builds ago and have needed to go back and reformat the map images. If there is a problem with the image, it will be patched next round.
As I had expected, there was an error on the map. It's actually shows a little too much. It looks like you can fly to something when you can't.
I've corrected for this and it will be in the next build. What's supposed to happen is that the rubber banding will occur once you hit map borders. Your ship indicator will float off the map screen into free UI space, it looks funny but that's technically what's going on. The further you go from the actual map, the stronger the rubber band and you will start to be dragged back onto the map.
This should resolve some confusion.
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That sounds alright but optimally some way of extending the map boundaries or moving that debris in a bit would be better.
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I understand the difficulties involved and also agree with your prioritization (not that my concurrence matters :P), but it's a point at least worth harping on to avoid it happening in the future.
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That spot is a pain.
Due to the unique nature of the map(so damn small), I think the resolution is to create a real border. Have the art department design enough scrap and debris to create more of an arena feel to the map by creating boundaries of scrap metal. This would solve the problem and I think will look pretty damn cool.
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The way awkm phrased it sounds like having the rubber banding slam you into the debris was intentoinal. Even if the 2D map is shrunk a bit, I don't think you should be smacking into debris for any reason other than wind and pilot error. It's a very "artificial" obstacle, if that makes sense. I like Chango's idea, if there's going to be a wall it'd be better for it to be one that's clearly visible and makes sense when you go smashing into it, but it's a solution that requires new assets and lightmapping. I really, REALLY would rather the rubberbanding wall be expanded so that it's always reasonably possible to fly around an obstacle on both sides. Resources or not, as it is now Duel at Dawn is a map I'll play on for achievements and nothing more, there's just better maps to play on.
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I very often want to try to go through there because most fights end up on that edge of the map plus the close by spawn point. What if the wind blew the other direction, away from the big open space invisible wall and into the scrap? Ships already gravitate to that area to be in open space, why blow them there also?
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Players gravitating towards certain areas is a good thing, it's part of the map design. I suppose that's another sloppy fix, just blow people away from the "buggy" areas, but I'd still prefer the invisible map borders be extended a bit.
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As much as I don't like invisible walls in video games, they have to work with what they can. How about just a notice that you've hit the boundary? I've gotten in a number of games with new pilots who don't realize what's happening and keep bouncing off the invisible wall, and may not be aware that there even is a map (took me awhile). This can be a little frustrating, especially if there's a language barrier, and telling them proves ineffective. Just a quick message popping up that you've reached the boundary of the combat area.
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duel at dawn is the rookie pilot killer, leave it as it is. it's the only way we can stop new pilots on insisting to fly galleons as if they were squids.
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duel at dawn is the rookie pilot killer, leave it as it is. it's the only way we can stop new pilots on insisting to fly galleons as if they were squids.
I think there's a big difference between a skill curve for pilots to fly on difficult to navigate maps;- and rookie pilots getting frustrated with map design because a large structure you naturally want to manouvre around suddenly suprises you as you end up bumping the invisible map border.
It's a legit issue that doesn't add anything to being a skillful or succesful sailor in Guns of Icarus Online;- it only causes a frustration that is less noticeable with more experience captains that know where exactly the map ends.
Before I signed up on this forum I actually sent in a feedback e-mail myself about Duel at Dawn because I ended up being pinballed between invisible wall & actual visible collison all the time trying to navigate carefully around the obstructions. I was flying fine;- I was keeping my galleon steady and steered it pretty well in between small gaps - I just couldn't handle when my fat tushy suddenly hit an invisible wall and I had to somehow recover from a really nasty bumpy position all while guessing where the map border might be.
It's the same thing with the spawn logic for Duel at Dawn. Often you spawn literally right against a scrap pillar where your only option is to backpeddle;- but if you don't immediately turn and full thrust forward you bump into the wall again.
That's just poor map design and a lack of knowledge and experience with that design;- and has nothing to do with skillful piloting.
I understand it's difficult with so little resources and manpower and more important issues at hand to really work on these things and provide short term solutions;- and I can totally deal with the outcome that I'll just have to memorize the map edge well enough - but I don't really like when someone insinuates this is what seperates rookies and veterans. It just seperates different groups with different tolerances towards imperfection of gameplay.
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It's the same thing with the spawn logic for Duel at Dawn. Often you spawn literally right against a scrap pillar where your only option is to backpeddle;- but if you don't immediately turn and full thrust forward you bump into the wall again.
the reason you bump into parts of the map in the beginning is because of the wind.
the map got really weird after the wind was introduced, so I can understand why a lot of players are frustrated with it.
if I remember correctly, hitting the edges of the map wasnt as big a problem before the wind was introduced, now you are just on complete lockdown in a corner if the wind wants to blow you out of the map.
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There really needs to be some flapping fabric on these ships to show you which way the wind's blowing, "realistically" you'd feel it on your skin or feel the resistance like you do when driving a car.
Wind aside, I completely agree with Pheobe, it's a flaw in the design and nothing more, experienced players just tend to tolerate the game's blemishes a bit more just out of necesssity. The map and loading bugs seem to be some of the biggest issues brought up in reviews, I really do hope they're priorities even if it delays new content. It's one thing to have a wall assited manuever, it's another to get stuck on something and take repeated damage because of wonky collisions. The ceiling on Canyon Ambush counts too, either make something low enough to fly over or make it too high to even try, don't do something in between.
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I'll take a look at spawn points but they're all there for a reason. I suspect the wind is just too much for people.
Also, the design for Canyons is intentional. You CAN fly above some of peaks with the proper skills. It provides interesting and unexpected tactics. I've seen people use them many times.
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Hydrogen at just the right time is a great way to escape people on canyons.
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So I played on Duel at Dawn again yesterday after a good few months of inactivity and (drum roll) the invisible still exists. EVERY ship hit that wall. I even tried to moonshine my Squid out of harms way INTO the wall without realising it still existed.
*sigh*
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Well they did make it a bit more obvious now when you're hitting walls (I like to tell my crew we're entering warp speed) but alas the wall is still there.
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Also, the design for Canyons is intentional. You CAN fly above some of peaks with the proper skills. It provides interesting and unexpected tactics. I've seen people use them many times.
OMG once me and my clan mates found this super hidden hiding spot that the squid can hide in. (Possibly Mobula, junker, Pyra, goldie also)
I just dont see any use of it other than a grand escape. Just had to mention.
And ye, when i first played dual at dawn, i also got stuck there. But i quickly learned. You can actually fly thru there with some skill and kyrosine (moonshine) on a squid, goldie. I managed to fly thru there with a Spire with minor flaws, any other times i tried where it fatal flaws.