Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Sakaron on May 11, 2013, 06:54:37 pm
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So, we have a bigger version of a Flak gun, A Mortar (more or less), a cannonade and finally a Artimetis, but what about a bigger version of the Gatling?
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I've been saying this for months, we need more piercing weapons, and a medium gun would be *perfect*. There's a double barreled carronade, why not a double barreled gattling?
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I also agree the variety on piercing is lacking. I would love some large weapon that fired a bunch of fast projectiles in a burst. Kind of like a burst assault rifle. Wonder how that could fit into WWI level tech.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/12%2C7-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82_%D0%94%D0%A8%D0%9A_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%86%D0%B0_1938_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0_%283-1%29.jpg)
Like this but bigger
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How about a Hotchkiss 53mm Naval?
(http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/antitorpedoboatguns/Hotchkiss/Resources/hotchkiss53mmpho.jpeg)
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That might do it. Ya, that might do it nicely.
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It's worth pointing out we don't have any guns that have an AoE pierce value. It would be kind of cool if a gun did direct damage shatter with a AoE pierce affect, or even direct damage flechette with AoE piercing, so you'd want to aim for the lower part of the balloon so it splashes onto the armor.
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My god could you imagine? Pop the balloon, strip the armor, and then ram them into the ground?
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hehe, I was thinking a burst type gun with piercing and shatter, since those two damage types are lacking a bit in the heavy weapons department.
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Lumberjack actually has a fuckton of shatter.
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Some sort of dieselpunk rail gun would be awesome.
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Almost like a heavy version of the Mercury? Interesting.
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Some sort of dieselpunk rail gun would be awesome.
that one sounds interesting.
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Aww, with giant magnets down its length looking like a huge v 8 engine? Or spinning magnets.. Ooo...
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Sounds awesome
Ah Squash, your right on the shatter with the lumberjack,the heavy cannonade and the Hwatcha has good shatter as well, but the only two heavy damage types missing is fire, and piercing, so a heavy flamethrower may or may not be introduced later.
and given that most heavy weapons have shatter, might as well give the heavy gat shatter In my opinion.
Makes sense in that the light gat has shatter as well.
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but the only two heavy damage types missing is fire, and piercing, so a heavy flamethrower may or may not be introduced later.
Ever fired a hellhound carronade with incendiary rounds?
It's hilarious to watch happen...definitely on a Pyramidion...
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(http://www.dvdactive.com/images/reviews/screenshot/2005/12/untitled.jpg)
GAT FLAK GALLEONS. GAT FLAK GALLEONS EVERYWHERE
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I actually think it would be kind of interesting to see a weapon that did piercing damage and fire damage.
It would be a mid range (1KM) semi auto weapon with 3-5 very large rounds with significant firing arc that would detonate into a fiery explosions inside the ship after impact functioning like an anti tank round by piercing through the armor and exploding on entry. Each round would about do half the piercing of the mercury but would also have an additional 50 fire damage spreading over a 4 M aoe with a 100% chance to start a level 1 fire.
Of course balance would have to played with but boy could that be fun on a Galleon or Spire.
Also I think Squash's idea for an aoe piercing weapon is also pretty neat.
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I like an idea I came up with a while back about a medium-gun double Gatling. It would do a less damage than the current one per bullet, but it would wind up and shoot much quicker in relation to how long the trigger's been held down. Imagine that with incendiary rounds~ ooooh
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What about something like the Nordenfelt?
http://www ....victorianshipmodels.com/antitorpedoboatguns/Nordenfelt/nordenfelt1inch4.html
Mod edit (Queso): Link may be dangerous. Use at your own risk.
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Wow, do not go to that website, it auto-downloads something
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Wow, do not go to that website, it auto-downloads something
Well...this is a Nordenfelt
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Nordenfelt_machine_gun_10_barrels.jpg/800px-Nordenfelt_machine_gun_10_barrels.jpg)
Looks like the Swedes took Leonardo daVinci's design or something.
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I actually think it would be kind of interesting to see a weapon that did piercing damage and fire damage.
It would be a mid range (1KM) semi auto weapon with 3-5 very large rounds with significant firing arc that would detonate into a fiery explosions inside the ship after impact functioning like an anti tank round by piercing through the armor and exploding on entry. Each round would about do half the piercing of the mercury but would also have an additional 50 fire damage spreading over a 4 M aoe with a 100% chance to start a level 1 fire.
Of course balance would have to played with but boy could that be fun on a Galleon or Spire.
Also I think Squash's idea for an aoe piercing weapon is also pretty neat.
I could imagine that working pretty well. Maybe with a little slower reload time, because I can imagine it wreaking havoc when it hits. Shooting your hull armor to pieces and setting random parts of the ship on fire? Sure, the fire doesn't do so much damage, but it makes the components less effective - and that while the Engineers are already busy keeping the Hull Armor alive.
Might also help in making Fire and Incendiary Rounds more viable again. Flamethrowers are fine enough, but they're close range. And the ocassional 16 fire stack from a Flare gun, or the other random Fire's you get from other weapons aren't really crippling or threatening, in my opinion.
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What about something like the Nordenfelt?
Mod edit (Queso): Link may be dangerous. Use at your own risk.
Wow, do not go to that website, it auto-downloads something
My bad, sorry about that.
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Actually, I'd like to see a Heavy Autocannon that deals Direct Piercing and AoE Explosive.
What would make it balanced? Well, mid-range, hard to use, and it'd deal Light Weapon-levels of DPS. But it'd essentially be an all-in-one weapon.
It'd be kinda useful with other explosive weapons, and kinda useful with other piercing weapons. The trick would be making it fun to play with; it could be balanced number wise (just a matter of tweaking) but it'd need to be made interesting somehow.
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I like the idea of a burst gun. A medium armor piercing weapon with a large spread and a low rate of fire. Like a hellhound carranade but with more range and different damage types.
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I kinda want a giant lasercannon as a heavy weapon. Remember the godlamp or whatever it was called? That could be a pierce-fire weapon. Picture a flame-gatling gun.
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How on earth do you reload a God Lamp? Perhaps the reload would be it cooling down so it doesn't melt itself. I love the idea of a heavy pierce/fire weapon.
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I remember someone having an idea of a gun with four rotating gatlings on it or something on the old forums, but otherwise some kind of gun derived from some ww2 AA's would be preatty neat.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h79/janswede/Other/WNUS_4cm-56_mk12_quad_sketch.jpg)
(http://cannonsuperstore.com/bofos/bofos.2.gif)
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Forget a Medium piercing gun, I wanna see a Medium flame gun. Daddy wants his giant flamethrower >:D
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GUNS OF ICARUS 1.3
Change Log
- Added new ship, the Science Vessel
- Added new light weapon, the Tesla Coil
- Added new medium weapon, the Voltaic Cannon
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GUNS OF ICARUS 1.3
Change Log
- Added new ship, the Science Vessel
- Added new light weapon, the Tesla Coil
- Added new medium weapon, the Voltaic Cannon
Don't get me excited like that :(
But a heavy piercing + explosive could make the Goldfish more formidable, I approve!
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To me a piercing+explosive weapon would be too simple, field two of those and you have a ship killer.
Even as common as the gat flack combo is, it requires timing, teamwork and resisting the urge to shout rude words at the guy who missed his flak shots
while the piercing+ explosive weapon sticks too much simplicity and does not encourage teamwork.
I reckon a piercing+fire gun would be nice, even if it doesn't make sense on how it would work.
BUT, you have to ignore the pretty effects and consider the meta and what the player will think to this.
As one player said, we will have gat flack combos on galleons if you introduce a heavy piercing weapon. I believe that it may reduce the supportive role of the galleon and turn it into a killing machine. Right now the galleon is more or less okay, but if you introduce a way for the galleon to very quickly kill judging by the damage of the current medium weapons, the meta may change to a two galleon combo where one galleon can help out the other.
because of the damage, most other ships will not be able to compete as you can secure each other behind and other blind spots.
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Yeah, god bless awkm and trying to balance the game.
The Pyra has always limited what you can do with light weapons and the Galleon has always limited what you can do with heavy weapons.
Dancing around these ships to leave the rest of the game balanced is an art.
So far the Junker changes have proved incredible, when you bring in a new weapon though, everything needs to be reconsidered within the context of the entire game.
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Talking about new heavy weapons and their ballance: I wonder is the mone-launcher going to have a wide enough arc to launch the mines out goldishe's direct path or is it going to have to fly in reverse to be able to launch mines safely.
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We talk about heavy piercing to be pretty much a double barrelled gattling gun.. why not like a ballista? Fire a massive crossbow bolt into the hull? In pretty sure that would pierce anything? Just a thought :)
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What if the Ballista bolt had a rope behind it. All Harpoon Galleon!
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What if the Ballista bolt had a rope behind it. All Harpoon Galleon!
NO! just no... the horror
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What if the Ballista bolt had a rope behind it. All Harpoon Galleon!
NO! just no... the horror
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/762/337.gif)
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Or at about a cannon?... Now wait and listen just a huge cannon ball but it has spikes... Hence piercing damage!!!! :D
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Piercing weapons are most likely simple projectile weapons, and that is just fine. Although, the dieselpunkish rail gun with protrusions and manly sound effects made me drool a little.
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Or at about a cannon?... Now wait and listen just a huge cannon ball but it has spikes... Hence piercing damage!!!! :D
Technically you could have it do explosive/piercing with a reversed arming timer to simulate velocity falloff while in the air. So after say 0.8s airtime the piercing falls off the weapon, making it devastating close up and ineffective against armor further away. Hell you could even use the projectile physics on a cannon, add mass and make a weapon that deals impact damage based on collision velocity.
Something I'd like to mention. Given the devastating damage current heavy weapons do, I think it would be very difficult to balance a raycast, rapid fire piercing weapon to fit on a galleon without making it completely ruin anything that doesn't sneak up on its blindsides. A new Howitzer, Rocket, or Cannon-like weapon is probably the way to go here. I understand that the Spire and Goldfish only have 1 heavy slot, but let's be honest here; the ship that will benefit the most from this change is going to be the Galleon, who can now balance their weaker starboard side with easy to use piercing capability making the light gun on port moreso a luxury than anything else.
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Or at about a cannon?... Now wait and listen just a huge cannon ball but it has spikes... Hence piercing damage!!!! :D
Technically you could have it do explosive/piercing with a reversed arming timer to simulate velocity falloff while in the air. So after say 0.8s airtime the piercing falls off the weapon, making it devastating close up and ineffective against armor further away. Hell you could even use the projectile physics on a cannon, add mass and make a weapon that deals impact damage based on collision velocity.
Something I'd like to mention. Given the devastating damage current heavy weapons do, I think it would be very difficult to balance a raycast, rapid fire piercing weapon to fit on a galleon without making it completely ruin anything that doesn't sneak up on its blindsides. A new Howitzer, Rocket, or Cannon-like weapon is probably the way to go here. I understand that the Spire and Goldfish only have 1 heavy slot, but let's be honest here; the ship that will benefit the most from this change is going to be the Galleon, who can now balance their weaker starboard side with easy to use piercing capability making the light gun on port moreso a luxury than anything else.
Honestly, this is why I suggested a weapon that deals Piercing and Explosive damage. Because naturally, its damage (and possibly range) would be sub-optimal compared to other options, but it'd be an all-in-one weapon. It could have an arming time, making it a long range weapon, or it could be a close range weapon.
I've always wanted to see a cannon-like weapon; this is an opportunity for that. Though I must admit, seeing a Light version would be nice, too.
The thing about a Piercing/Explosive weapon is that unlike the current combos you have, you'll be dealing no Shatter damage. The Gatling and Merc don't really sacrifice much armor peeling power for their disabling potency, so they'll still be very useful. But these weapons would be purely for killing.
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Arming time on a heavy piercing weapon would be a good idea.
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present concepts:
The weapon is essentially drawn from the concepts of WWI and WWII flackguns and other anti-aircraft weapons such as the Bofors.
The weapon fires an elongated projectile that contains some form of napalm or explosive. Preferably some sort of saboted arrow, possibly from a ballista, steam-cannon, or railgun for bonus points.
Magnetically accelerated ferro-fluid that deals shatter damage up close, but once given the time to elongate (i.e. arming time) the fluid projectile deals heavy piercing damage.
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Or just make it a giant circular saw. Could you imagine Saw Spires.... that would be fun.
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I saw this on one of awkm's old posts:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dGOW7HZoCIw/TfqC8KDJBAI/AAAAAAAAAho/6iZv0AYmMS4/s1600/saw1.png)
They have the technology, but do they dare use it?
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I saw this on one of awkm's old posts:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dGOW7HZoCIw/TfqC8KDJBAI/AAAAAAAAAho/6iZv0AYmMS4/s1600/saw1.png)
They have the technology, but do they dare use it?
WANT
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Or at about a cannon?... Now wait and listen just a huge cannon ball but it has spikes... Hence piercing damage!!!! :D
Impact damage that moved the ship
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I saw this on one of awkm's old posts:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dGOW7HZoCIw/TfqC8KDJBAI/AAAAAAAAAho/6iZv0AYmMS4/s1600/saw1.png)
Air Loggers series, anyone?
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You all love my idea of a cannon BUT NO-ONE SALUTE!!! :'(
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but now it'd be a pity Salute, and idk if thats what you want :P
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I want at least one :') pity or no pity at least its a salute xD anyways i salute officers everyday :/ (R.A.F Engineer) and get nothing back xD
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Man, I feel like clans should have a pact to salute each other.
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Just FYI, medium piercing weapons will severely change meta and upset balance. This is why I shy away from it. Once it is introduced... all of the meta changes. I've thought about it. I've had nightmares about it.
Medium piercing would require various features to augment its firing mechanism. The case I want to avoid is a one man Galleon killing machine. If I follow the trend of heavy weapons, that they are more powerful version of their lighter model, then the heavy piercing gun will likely be almost one shot to strip armor.
It'd be ridiculously OP... without different firing mechanism.
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I think that a heavy piercing weapon could be effective- make it something like a huge, ropeless harpoon that would do a whole mess of damage to the armor, but only fire one shot per 10 seconds or so. This would make the weapon more strategic than the Gatling as of now, which is just to 'shootshootshootshoot' and 'keep your crosshair on the hull, not the balloon, you silly'. Making it do this burst damage would make it an effective choice, but its reload would want the ship to be at a safer distance away, and its (perhaps) lackluster accuracy would require the ship to be within close range before using. What do you guys think? I believe a single shot device, which contrasts against the machine gun, would work well as a non-spammable armor shredder.
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What if the Ballista bolt had a rope behind it. All Harpoon Galleon!
:P I didn't read this before I posted my suggestion. Great minds think alike, huh?
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A one shot heavy ballista? With a slow movement and vicious mechanical pull? It would just reel ships in one clunk at a time, I could see this being a nightmare if your on a goldfish, engines full reverse with kerosene trying to pull a galleon backwards, then all of a sudden the galleon goes full burn backwards with moonshine and butt rams you.
Bad bad day.
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Ropeless! It wouldn't do any reeling action.
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Rope less would definitely work better in the case I was making.
What if it hit with the mass and inertia of a ship ram?
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I also put this idea of a ballista early in!!! I should be hired as a brain for muse!!! XD just message me for any other good ideas :) I'm chock full of them :)
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I also put this idea of a ballista early in!!! I should be hired as a brain for muse!!! XD just message me for any other good ideas :) I'm chock full of them :)
Go ahead and post them here!
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Rope less would definitely work better in the case I was making.
What if it hit with the mass and inertia of a ship ram?
As fun as that would be, I don't know if that would balance well- doing a full front ram with a moonshined goldfish, and then shooting the bolt... the enemy would go back to the future. Likewise, getting hit with two bolts at the same time could cause a ship to slam into a wall with enough force to get stuck and auto-killed.
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Sounds like what I do to ships when I ram them anyways, squish them into the terrain.
But I see your point it might cause a bad collision issue on a map like Canyon. Still, would be super awesome, be like the rail gun in FEAR.
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Sounds like what I do to ships when I ram them anyways, squish them into the terrain.
But I see your point it might cause a bad collision issue on a map like Canyon. Still, would be super awesome, be like the rail gun in FEAR.
I'm still bitter about that.
I think the sudden imparting of massive velocity to a ship is going to put people inside the buildings on maps with shady collision detection.
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Sounds like what I do to ships when I ram them anyways, squish them into the terrain.
But I see your point it might cause a bad collision issue on a map like Canyon. Still, would be super awesome, be like the rail gun in FEAR.
I'm still bitter about that.
I think the sudden imparting of massive velocity to a ship is going to put people inside the buildings on maps with shady collision detection.
Lol, I had forgotten about that squish ram. Ya, the more I think on it the more cool and less functional it seems to be.
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Rope less would definitely work better in the case I was making.
What if it hit with the mass and inertia of a ship ram?
This would actually be pretty interesting. Not that it'd deal impact damage directly, but it would push the ship so it would deal to itself a decent amount. The amount it'd be pushed would diminish depending on range, yet it'd have a good range, 1000m or so. So you have a choice of how you want to make use of it. At range, dual Flak + Field Gun is still a better choice for a Galleon.
It'd be a positioning based weapon. Goldfishes would use ramming combined with a point blank shot to peel their armor and send them hurtling towards a cliff face. Spires could use it defensively as a knockback against charging ships, as well as a complement to explosive light weapons like a Flak and a Mortar.
I think it's a good idea.