Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Richard LeMoon on August 06, 2017, 01:12:33 pm
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This came out of the discussion on the lobby autoswitch poll (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,8631.0.html). The image below is what you see if you try to join a running match in slots 2, 3, and 4 as PILOT.
With this change, players trying to join a running match as GUNNER in slots 3 and 4 would also get that message, regardless of what the other crew are. Gunner trying to join in slot 1 would get the message "You will be switched to Pilot. Continue?"
Engineers will be free to midmatch join in any slot.
To be clear, classes allowed to midmatch join are as follows:
Slot 1. Pilot, Engineer, NO Gunner
Slot 2. Gunner, Engineer, NO Pilot
Slot 3. Engineer, NO Gunner or Pilot
Slot 4. Engineer, NO Gunner or Pilot
This would have NO effect on lobbies. In a lobby, you could still fill your ship with gunners if you wish.
(http://i.imgur.com/Yrqou1D.jpg)
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Sounds good to me tbh.
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And it isn't possible to change it to "Is there already a gunner on the ship? Don't allow a second gunner to join mid-match, no matter the slot.". I don't know if a random engineer taking the gunner slot while in the lobby is a good idea to not allow a gunner to join at all.
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And it isn't possible to change it to "Is there already a gunner on the ship? Don't allow a second gunner to join mid-match, no matter the slot.".
that would be best, but let's just get it quick for the moment
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I like it. Coming in from the Matchmaker would make this pretty effective and ensure that we avoid mishaps with people joining as roles that they don't need aboard the ship.
I can see a lot of newer players quitting a match because they can't be the role they want, however. It'll be annoying for both parties, but it's a healthy change to avoid toxicity. If the newer player joins in Lobby, of course, it'll be fine, so that's going to keep most of the issues to a minimum.
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The idea of binding crew roles to the slot position is horribly confusing. Seems to me it would be so much more simple to just detect if there is already a gunner and switch any other joining gunners to engineer.
What's the point of binding it to a slot if I'm joining mid-match? Wouldn't the current crew already define which slots I'm allowed to join on?
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Not really. Gunner is traditionally a 2nd slot class (and 2nd class class xD). If I don't want a gunner, I put an engie there. If I lose a crew, I don't want a gunner joining in another slot.
Actually, I never want a gunner to midmatch join, so slot 2 allowign gunner would still be a pain to me.
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I would support anything that lowers the number if mid match joining gunners. That includes forcing anyone who mid match joins to be an engineer (unless it is in the captain's spot).
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If I don't want a gunner, I put an engie there. If I lose a crew, I don't want a gunner joining in another slot.
Fine. I'm seeing your logic here.
This is exercising more control than I typically do. I'm not going to bother trying to shuffle my crew just to get my gunner visually "next" to me. I see how you'd use it as a purposeful restriction, but the common game isn't going to be so finely tuned all the time. I don't think it's fair to employ a design that could let one engineer join an otherwise empty boat and forever screw that ship into never having a gunner. There may be plenty of matches in the future where some level 15 hwatchafish pilot is hoping for a gunner and can't understand for the life of him why he isn't getting one.
It seems simpler to detect one gunner, switch other slots to "Join as Engineer," and be done with it. However, I do think that there should be some compromise to allow the pilot to restrict what classes can join his ship before the match begins.
EDIT: Here's a funny idea: Default crew class is ALWAYS engineer. The pilot can assign gunners through the recommendation feature. This way the pilot gets to choose their gunner AND ammunition, and it is impossible for a gunner to join in the middle, like you want.
This would change how gunner is treated as a class, so the expectations for progression would need to be shifted. It could also inadvertently exclude newer players; never get chosen, never get levels, never get chosen.
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Better lock Slot 1 for pilot only. It's a very stupid situation when for some reason you lost the pilot and the engineer joins this place. And autoswitch must give him standart kero-claw-hydro tools, because if he join as engineer on captain sit you can guess his pilot skills.
Similar tool switch must work if player auto switched to engineer, mallet-spanner-extinguisher.
Making gunner slot generates annoying micromanagement in lobby.
Allow or not allow mid match gunner join is hard question. If you go full AI carrofish join any gunner make you happy, if you go double novice buff engineer squid or pyra even 45-level gunner set pilot to panic. Muse never allow kick players after join. So we need mechanism operated by pilot, how much gunner he want for current ship - none-1-2-3. Default is 1 and make it make change is not too obvious for novice pliot. It can work both on midmatch and lobby.
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How about this then:
Add "Desired number of Gunners" to the Shiploadout (default is 1, locked for Novices)
In Lobby:
insteand of "[AI Crewman] Click to crew" write "[AI Crewman] Engineer needed" and "[AI Crewman] Gunner needed" in the right numbers.
An engi takes the Gunner slot -> the next free slot displays "Gunner needed"
A gunner takes an engi slot -> the gunner slot displays now "Engineer needed"
Full Crew and too many or not enough gunners -> Talk to each other, I don't think a warning sign is necessary
Midmatch-joins:
Auto-switch to the missing class, depending what slot you click on (with warning message like in original post)
Alternative: Switch to gunner if needed, otherwise switch to engineer.
Result:
No additional micro management in Lobby
No undesired gunner midmatch joins
No undesired engineer midmatch joins
Easy to use and to understand for captains and crew
Con: Needs bit more coding
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Con: Needs bit more coding
Likely needs substantially more coding, and that is the kicker. The indications were that if the pilot logic was reused, this could be done in the next few updates. If a completely new system needs building... who knows?
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If lock for novices number of gunners still must be option 1 or 0. Some players still able learn good thing for start. But i am sure lock not really needed, at least this is action from pilot side to change number.
Auto switch for gunner requires from pilot make recommended loadout all time in lobby, sometimes there is simply no time for it, very easy to forget and force player join with wrong loadout.
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The indications were that if the pilot logic was reused, this could be done in the next few updates. If a completely new system needs building... who knows?
I know. I prefer quick for this one. just a spontaneous vision I had
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+1 musepls
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Bumping this back up to ask a question.
Should slot 1 be locked to PILOT only for midmatch joins?
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Bumping this back up to ask a question.
Should slot 1 be locked to PILOT only for midmatch joins?
Not as critical as the original topic but yea on this proposal as well.
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I've certainly joined a pilot-less ship to save them only to find I didn't actually join as a pilot.
Manually clicking the pilot button in a lobby does nothing in a normal crew slot, and clicking the captain slot itself switches you to pilot class automatically. For this reason, you're never really prompted to ever click the pilot button as a manual adjustment.
Joining into a running match in the captain slot ought to automatically switch you to a pilot. It could also bring up a prompt exactly like what has been implemented when attempting to join as a second pilot, warning you that you will be switched to pilot if you agree.
It all seems so simple, and the mechanics already exist for the most part. It's like Muse only ever goes a quarter of the way to fix oddities like this.
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YES PLEASE
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This is now a thing being tested in devapp. Logic is as follows:
Slot 1: Auto-switch to Pilot (current)
Slot 2: Auto-switch Pilot to Engineer (current)
Slot 3: Auto-switch Pilot AND Gunner to Engineer (new)
Slot 4: Auto-switch Pilot AND Gunner to Engineer (new)
The logic follows the current Slot 1 join. Once in the spot, you may change to other classes. The only hard lock is not allowing Pilots in 2, 3, and 4.
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Posted that in the wrong thread. It was meant to go in the lobby thread. This is a thing for midmatch joins as well, though.