Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Rizqo on May 08, 2013, 12:44:00 pm
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Hello everyone,
This is just a quick question really, but do you think captains will be able to kick players off there ship while there in and out of game?
This came to mind when a group of us was playing on Guns of Icarus and a player joined are team, they done absolutely nothing to benefit our team so it made us lose the game.
I guess people will agree and disagree with this, but I would like to see this implemented as it does get annoying when a group of trolls just run around your ship messing around, it just ruins the game for everyone really.
Thank you for reading this, please reply soon.
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Perhaps, but if such a system was implemented, it would probably need some sort of method of guarding who is allowed to do the kicking. I'd say having X amount of commendations would probably be the best way. Proof that you may not be a jerk.
Still though, I'm not sure that it would be a good thing for the game if you could kick people. It'd probably be way better to communicate why someone is doing something wrong, and ask them to do something else. Some games you are gonna end up with 3 powder monkeys, but eh, can't win em all.
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Hmm, that's a problem since we've first set.. engines and took to the skies. Players not joining with the needed classes can be countered by fixing the class positions, but players who simply aren't doing their job.. well.
You can usually reach everyone aboard the ship by sending them a private message in the chat, even if they don't speak English they'll understand something is wrong once they see a dozen of lines suddenly popping up there.
The only thing I could think of to allow kicking players would be.. not responding. That comes down to being AFK, and players already get replaced by an AI crewmember if they're AFK.
A workaround would be locking ships for friends or for invitation. Meaning, you tick that little "private" (or whatever) button next to your ship, and only people from your friends tab can join.
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The fear is that people will start kicking new crewmembers instead of trying to teach them the basics. The reality is that anyone who wants to be a dick simply takes advantage of the fact that they can act with impunity. This creates problems because it's very easy for someone that wants to be a dick to use any variety of excuse to avoid trouble, one of the more convenient ones being that they don't speak English (except when they feel like taunting you in English). And since non-English speakers tend to be silent, it's hard to know that they're not intentionally being douchebags and really just don't know that taking the front gun and not shooting is a bad thing. It's very hard to gauge someone's intent and so outside moderation is pretty ineffective.
It makes me wonder how Adventure Mode will turn out if the stakes for each battle are raised. The only reason the game currently can get away with not having any self-moderating tools is because battles themselves are pretty meaningless, stats aren't publicly visible or commonly shared. If resources or ship upgrades are on the line one person being a dick is going to do a lot more damage than wasting ten minutes of your time.
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I too would like a kick option to deal with uncooperative players. Right now I deal with a trolls by leaving the ship and joining the other team. which kinda sucks if I have a good team/crew going.
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We often do the opposite of kicking the player, we kick everyone else.
"Hey I'm making JoeBobs game 2"
If the players like playing with you and know that the current lobby is tainted by bad or afk players they will fallow you.
If you haven't been talking to other players enough to pull this trick whenever you want you should just start talking more.
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Should be a way to vote people down, not just thumbs up. That way, if they're impeding game after game, they'll be identified to Muse. Kicking people will just lead to more problems.
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I'm very familiar with crew members not following orders but rarely have a problem with it.
Google translate for foreigners.
Explanations for new players.
Inductive reasoning for stubborn people (I need you to do this this way because of xyz)
And outstubborning more stubborn players (if you don't change your loadout/behavior I will turn this ship right around Mr. I mean it. We're not going anywhere til you take a mallet and a spanner. I can wait all day.
I can not remember the last time I wasn't able to solve my problems with these methods but if all else fails, explain to your teammate/s that you've got an impossible troll on your ship. Surrender the match, and start a new one with whoever would like to join. If the troll comes back, don't start the match til he leaves.
I have only had to do this once in my nearly 3,000 games. Most players will start to listen when you explain to them why you're asking them to do these things.
A kick option is really ripe for exploitation and personally I might be a little to tempted to overuse it myself. My teammates come into the game and wants to get into my ship, kick the level 1 gunner. Someone won't change classes, kick the level 1 gunner Facing a tough opponent and want to win, kick the level 1 gunner. Feeling cheeky, kick the level 1 gunner.
Well you see my point is, this will really negatively impact new players. Instead of teaching people how to play and how to play together, it will create a very negative community that people won't want to be a part of. It will make it clickier than it is now and slow the growth that the game has been having.
The possible negatives just don't justify making it more convenient for vet players who don't want to deal with educating new players or working with other people.
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I wish I could add something new to this discussion, but Smollet covered all the bases that I'd usually like to hit already.
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You can usually reach everyone aboard the ship by sending them a private message in the chat, even if they don't speak English they'll understand something is wrong once they see a dozen of lines suddenly popping up there.
This is a great idea but it doesn't really happen in reality. I've reported a bunch of kids for their behavior who in turn reported me back. Muse sent me a warning. I sent them a screenshot proving the kids were lying through their teeth. In the end, nothing was really done. They don't have time to investigate nor play judge and jury over everything.
Just had one today. Came on, we were in trouble. Told him over and over to repair the engines to help our engineer who was focusing on hull and balloon. He turns around in plain English, American, and tells me to shut up and not tell him what to do. Then continues to be a jerk. Finally got off after I threatened to report him but the fact is...yeah I can see abuse from a kick system but I'm at the point now where enough is enough. Muse isn't going to do it so it should be in our hands.
If a kick system is implemented with a class fix system for ships then it won't get abused as much as it would without one.
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I agree with Gilder. I think that some option to kick a player could be implemented but in a way that's hard to abuse. Like a vote kick that needs more than half of players on the server positive votes to kick somebody. In this situation you need to convince other players that somebody is a pest who doesn't listen to anyone and needs to be kicked. A democratic solution that doesn't involve pestering Muse about a player who doesn't know how to behave.
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Why would players on a server vote or not vote to kick someone of an opponent's ship?
I still stick with the idea of thumbs-downing someone being an option. Muse could see if someone is being an ass and trying to 'report' everyone they come across, or if they are consistently a negative player at a glance. With the larger number of inputs, it removes the he said, she said that Gilder mentions.
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I would like a kick system but it would probably turn the game into an elitist hellhole.
"Hey this guy isn't very good and I know that other guy is good lets votekick to make our team stronger."
One of the best things about this game is the community and teaching that goes on. I would hate to see that ruined be elitism or people just being too lazy to train a new guy. Private games are easy enough to create and you can get the passwords out easily enough.
I've had a few teammates who just refuse to listen but they are the minority. In adventure mode a more "these guys only" approach makes sense but in skirmish where it's brawl for fun I don't see a need for elitism.
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Why would players on a server vote or not vote to kick someone of an opponent's ship?
I said it because it requires convincing other players that there is a jerk on a server that destroys the fun of the game. I think it's also important for opponent's team to have challenging battles .
But ok, maybe You are right it's to much for a whole server to vote but leaving a voting option just to one crew could lead to abuse IMHO. As Smollett said, this could result in kicking players just because a captain (or the rest of the crew) don't like something about one player in their crew (to small level, no microphone, to make room for somebody else etc.).
That's why I think a neutral voice is needed here, like the rest of the team (or whole server). Somebody you have to convince that one player in Your crew is a pest so that he can't be kicked only because of one's captain selfish reasons.
I still stick with the idea of thumbs-downing someone being an option. Muse could see if someone is being an ass and trying to 'report' everyone they come across, or if they are consistently a negative player at a glance. With the larger number of inputs, it removes the he said, she said that Gilder mentions.
But again this could result in giving negative commendations to players who are still noobs. Innocent people would get negative commendations because they are not yet experienced in GoI, had just bad day as a gunner, haven't manage to do some orders taken from pilot or just someone doesn't like someone's voice.
It's the same reason why on Facebook you don't have an "don't like" button. You either have many commendations what means you are a good player or few commendation what means you are either a bad player or you just started playing the game (or because commendations is a new feature and you are an experienced player but haven't managed to gain them yet ^^').
I've had a few teammates who just refuse to listen but they are the minority. In adventure mode a more "these guys only" approach makes sense but in skirmish where it's brawl for fun I don't see a need for elitism.
It's an awesome thing that this game has such a great and willing to help community but think about the future. I mean, I hope that GoIO will one day become a popular well known game than just aprovincial, cosy game for a small group of enthusiasts (no offense). If so then we should be ready for an influx of pricks without good manners raised on Counter Strikes, CoDs and BFs (also no offense xD). In this case there should be a way to deal with them.
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Why would players on a server vote or not vote to kick someone of an opponent's ship?
I still stick with the idea of thumbs-downing someone being an option. Muse could see if someone is being an ass and trying to 'report' everyone they come across, or if they are consistently a negative player at a glance. With the larger number of inputs, it removes the he said, she said that Gilder mentions.
What would stop people from simply "down-thumbing" for lack of skill, or the fact they just don't like them? Then you get all these false representations of players for reasons other than being a straight troll.
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I mean, I hope that GoIO will one day become a popular well known game than just aprovincial, cosy game for a small group of enthusiasts (no offense).
It feels to me like the player base has doubled in the last week or so, but the average age and IQ of the playerbase has halved...
I'm not sure what happened, but I guess being mentioned on popular sites had a greater effect on player numbers than the indiegamestand deal.
I do agree that being able to kick could cause more problems than it solves... Why not just do what I've seen people do already, which is wait until the match is over (or maybe surrender if there's a real problem) and refuse to start until the troublemaker leaves.
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I do agree that being able to kick could cause more problems than it solves... Why not just do what I've seen people do already, which is wait until the match is over (or maybe surrender if there's a real problem) and refuse to start until the troublemaker leaves.
It works for now but it requires a little bit of sacrifice to end an already started game and the patiently wait for the player to leave. Good that as for now suh things rarely happen...
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Or just coordinate with the other captains and just go all junker armed with flares. Turn it into a light show, or harpoons.
Oooo lamprey fight! Flares AND Harpoons!
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Some games you are gonna end up with 3 powder monkeys, but eh, can't win em all.
Commanders could be given "at most" crew class limit buttons for their ship for each class, with pilot defaulting to 0 (commander doesn't count against this), gunner defaulting to 1, and engineer defaulting to 3. Clicking the class icon would decrement the limit (so clicking on gunner once would indicate that zero gunners are desired), and roll around back to three when clicked on zero.
Monkeyism can be dealt with in a number of ways: the most straightforward seems to be "max level minimums", which cannot be lower than the current class level. For example, if I am a level 8 pilot, level 3 gunner, and level 4 engi, my max level is 8. A level 5 pilot (regardless of their other class levels) could set the level limit to no lower than, say, 2 less than their current level -- since my max level is greater than 3, I could fill their crew slot. If they were level 10, they could set the limit to 8, and I could still fill their slot, but someone with 3,3,3 class levels could not.
What would stop people from simply "down-thumbing" for lack of skill, or the fact they just don't like them? Then you get all these false representations of players for reasons other than being a straight troll.
Level 3 always seemed like a "graduating to competence" level to me, where game mechanics knowledge is well enough rounded that the player should know what they're doing. If they're max level is less than 3, they should be protected from thumbs down. Otherwise, thumbs downs should not be allowed unless at least 3 players give it (or in a 2v2 match, at least 2 players give the thumbs down). Regardless of the numbers of thumbs down, at most one should be recorded per match.
The fear is that people will start kicking new crewmembers instead of trying to teach them the basics.
There are already achievements that reward playing with low level crews.
And since non-English speakers tend to be silent, it's hard to know that they're not intentionally being douchebags and really just don't know that taking the front gun and not shooting is a bad thing.
There's also a problem with people without mics (who do speak your language) needing to type it in, taking their hands off of repairs, gunning, etc. This could be solved with one or more menus of common communiques (such as you see in Team Fortress, et al), that translate into the receiving user's language. User's languages could also be indicated in game, though you'd want to avoid using 'language flags', since these can be offensive to users who speak a language but don't live in the country indicated by flag.
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I take it back... teams should be allowed to votekick other captains. A captain who put's mortars/banshees on his ship then snipes and won't respond during the game then tells you to fuck off in the lobby afterward needs to go bye bye.
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Nah, he can be taught, told nicely, and then helped out.
The person who needs a ban is a bot and a hacker. That's it. Maybe also scammers and porn posters. And if you were using GOI for drug deals or something.
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I believe that the idea should be kept in mind, but definitely no action should be taken until problems become very frequent
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I want the ability to kick AI off of my crew.
Every single time an AI joins my ship they refuse to listen to commands. If I tell them to repair the hull, they go off to an engine, when I tell them to shoot at one enemy, they'll go off onto another random gun just to shoot at the target they feel like and they absolutely refuse to engage an enemy beyond 1km.
We need an option to vote kick the AI.
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What would stop people from simply "down-thumbing" for lack of skill, or the fact they just don't like them? Then you get all these false representations of players for reasons other than being a straight troll.
This is a valid point. I didn't elaborate very well. The concept here would be to have a large number of thumbs-downs flag a player as a possible problem. It takes time to be effective. As negative feedback accumulates from a large sampling of the playerbase, it becomes easier to identify problems by the consistent negative feedback across all of their gameplay interactions.
The Administration could identify potential problems and then move for closer observation and corrective action, if needed. It also starts a 'paper trail', if you will, which when accompanied by warnings and other actions by Muse would allow them to defend actions such as banning against someone who did pay for their product.
The fact that negative feedback would have to accumulate over time should wash out the unreasonable thumbs-downs, and likewise the ability to see who is giving everyone thumbs-downs helps adjust that. The drawback here is that players would have to have confidence in the system. It doesn't provide for the immediate ejection of a problem child.
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I don't like the idea of kicking or voting off any player. Sure, you run in to the odd bad player who doesn't communicate well. I served under a bad capitan who only served to get us killed, and then complained as we were not manning the guns as we were trying to keep the hull alive. But it's hardly game-ruining and doesn't merit a kick. In fact, if he had the power, as per this suggestion, he would have probably kicked us off the ship, not understanding and not learning why we kept dying.
I also disagree with captains choosing other player's classes. Just out of principal,I don't think anyone should have the power to choose the way others play the game. Also, There is a chat window and a voice chat button. Communicate. If for some reason you can't get through, then adapt, change the hardpoint loadout, ask the previous gunner to bring an engineer load out with a specific ammunition. Finally, learn and overcome those setbacks.
If there was simply a "set class" or a "kick" button, I would not have learnt as much as I have from odd crew-load outs and interesting situations. , and some experiences that have made me a better player would simply have not had happened. Adding a kick feature or a "set class" feature would serve to undermine the experience, rather than further it.
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I'm with Kestril here. I am a complete newbie (and a gunner at that), and thus I am always worried I do not pull my weight in the crew. I hate the situation when I am getting yelled at simply because nobody TOLD me that the enemy is closing in from the other side. I spend more time fixing things than shooting, and that is fine if I am being communicated with.
If some kick option was implemented, I would be flying off more ships than empty cartridges during a barrage simply for the reason I am a low-end gunner and the pilot/other crew is judging me before trying. And my best matches have been with a random crew who were guided by the pilot with simple voice-commands.
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I myself did not yet run into a situation when i would need a kick option, but I understand why something at least simmilar would be needed.
Consider an option a bit different than a kick: vote kick.
Basicly the same as kick but you would point a player which you'd want to kick and give a short reason (ie 'afk') and start the voting. Then if at least x out of y players agreed with this kick the afker would get kicked but if not nothing would happen. This way the kick just cause would be at limited thou it would still be there for those rare occasions. Imagine a second captain getting on your only manticore leaving your gunner useles and blocking most of the ship's offensive functionality then not responding to any form of contact - annoying.
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I had an idea for the kick mechanic that will never be implemented. What if kicking a player off your ship resulted in the AI replacing them getting a little bit dumber? That way captains who kick to make room for their friends (a legitimate reason to kick some one IMO) aren't adversely effected. Where as people who kick to avoid teaching newbies are stuck with even more useless AI. In the instance where you have a troll, replacing them with a semi useless AI would be preferable.
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What if kicking someone off your ship didn't actually remove them from your ship but instead ejected them off the side causing them to shoot off and respawn.
I don't think this would solve any problems but it would certainly create lots of hilarity and relieve pilot frustration .
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What if kicking someone off your ship didn't actually remove them from your ship but instead ejected them off the side causing them to shoot off and respawn.
I don't think this would solve any problems but it would certainly create lots of hilarity and relieve pilot frustration .
could be a new pilot tool "the plank".... but to get back on track... Kicking has been a topic of discussion for a while, and I believe the general consensus is that it would most likely lead to fragmentation of this great community (which is not good)
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I agree with the near certain overuse of a kick button that some people will use for the wrong reasons, maybe a system where 3/4 members of the crew need to agree to the kick or maybe even 3/4 or 5/6 captains etc, I only say this as I had a guy join and just jump off my ship all game yelling "weeeeeeee" in the chat, still won but it sure did not help. Maybe just a way to downvote people so that they can be alerted to CA members or something where they can either be helped or politely disciplined depending on what is needed.
Sir Hawkeye
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For behavior problems i have a new solution. Tarcide your ship till they leave. I've made this my new policy.
Sure you could take the ship and run away. Trouble is more often than not they'll amuse themselves on the guns. That lures enemies and gives them free kills. Tarcide takes that away and forces them to leave as they realize they can't ruin your game.
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please make this kick button reality.
reasons why you should make this reality:
1. Who likes having stubborn little kids on their ship?
2. If the person doesnt speak english and just goes gunning with a pilot class.
3. Captain Phoenix.
4. When you notice there is a screamer (random guy who flames or screams all over the chat).
5. When you have a Wanna-be-cool-kid (thinks hes cool and pro, but guess what its just talk and no balls)
6. When you have a White-kid-who-wanna-be-black-rapper (no comment needed on that)
7. When you have a little cursing brat on your ship (GTFO!)
8. When people on your ship start to speak russian and dont understand a word english (same with other languages)
9. Stalkers!
10. When someone is so bad that you want to cry in a corner and that same person wants to fly with you again.
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please make this kick button reality.
reasons why you should make this reality:
1. Who likes having stubborn little kids on their ship?
2. If the person doesnt speak english and just goes gunning with a pilot class.
3. Captain Phoenix.
4. When you notice there is a screamer (random guy who flames or screams all over the chat).
5. When you have a Wanna-be-cool-kid (thinks hes cool and pro, but guess what its just talk and no balls)
6. When you have a White-kid-who-wanna-be-black-rapper (no comment needed on that)
7. When you have a little cursing brat on your ship (GTFO!)
8. When people on your ship start to speak russian and dont understand a word english (same with other languages)
9. Stalkers!
10. When someone is so bad that you want to cry in a corner and that same person wants to fly with you again.
Most of these problems could be solves with a "mute" button instead of kicking people, furthermore
1) try talking to them and explain in a calm and concise manner why you want them to do something.
2) Try looking up a translator on the internet and message them during the wait for the next game
3) Don't understand this sorry
4) See mute button idea
5) See mute button idea
6) See mute button idea
7) See mute button idea
8) See translator option, you can't just kick someone based on their native tongue!
9) Try blocking them in the social section and then just ignore them, if you are an adult you should be able to put up with this.
10) Why not try helping that person and teaching them so that they improve and then you will want them to fly with you again.
Think positive :)
Your list did not make you seem smarter than anyone else, I did mine in a list to show you that. :)
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please make this kick button reality.
reasons why you should make this reality:
1. Who likes having stubborn little kids on their ship?
2. If the person doesnt speak english and just goes gunning with a pilot class.
3. Captain Phoenix.
4. When you notice there is a screamer (random guy who flames or screams all over the chat).
5. When you have a Wanna-be-cool-kid (thinks hes cool and pro, but guess what its just talk and no balls)
6. When you have a White-kid-who-wanna-be-black-rapper (no comment needed on that)
7. When you have a little cursing brat on your ship (GTFO!)
8. When people on your ship start to speak russian and dont understand a word english (same with other languages)
9. Stalkers!
10. When someone is so bad that you want to cry in a corner and that same person wants to fly with you again.
Most of these problems could be solves with a "mute" button instead of kicking people, furthermore
1) try talking to them and explain in a calm and concise manner why you want them to do something.
2) Try looking up a translator on the internet and message them during the wait for the next game
3) Don't understand this sorry
4) See mute button idea
5) See mute button idea
6) See mute button idea
7) See mute button idea
8) See translator option, you can't just kick someone based on their native tongue!
9) Try blocking them in the social section and then just ignore them, if you are an adult you should be able to put up with this.
10) Why not try helping that person and teaching them so that they improve and then you will want them to fly with you again.
Think positive :)
Your list did not make you seem smarter than anyone else, I did mine in a list to show you that. :)
2) i dont have time getting a translator up in-game
4/5/6/7) muting them doesnt change their attitude
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Try looking up a translator on the internet and message them during the wait for the next game
4/5/6/7 Just kicking them won't change their attitude either, if they are trolling purposely then it will only encourage them, maybe report them to a CA mod?
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I think kicking them is a bad idea, but I'm not looking up a translator.
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im not really interested in learning 6 new languages.
why would you give those trolling guys a chance to get in your game, this will let them troll you and have their fun as they grab a gun and dont shoot at all. this way you would be encouraging them. offcourse you can report them but before that you are stuck with them.
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The only problem with kicking people is that you assume that only people who are justified to kick people will, what about the same trolls who will undoubtedly start up games as captains and then proceed to kick whole crews from games, I agree there needs to be a way to handle disruptive trolls but I do not see a kick button working very well, unless like I said earlier was based on a majority vote of either crew or captains in the game.
I also do not mind people not looking up a translator I just don't think people who speak another language should be kicked if that is the only reason that they would be kicked, just like I would not expect myself to be kicked if I do not speak, for example, Russian.
While I am very new to this community I do not think that the proposed "kick" button would be a healthy move for it.
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true
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You guys are missing out on major goi fun by not using google translate. You should all crew on my ship when I try to speak Russian.
It was funny the other day though when someone pretended they could only speak portuguese, which I understand and speak to degree. When I started replying to him, he was like ok ok I speak English.
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Most of these problems could be solves with a "mute" button instead of kicking people, furthermore
There is a mute button. It's labelled "Block [player name]"