Guns Of Icarus Online

Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Richard LeMoon on January 17, 2017, 11:53:06 pm

Title: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Richard LeMoon on January 17, 2017, 11:53:06 pm: I have played this game for a number of years now, and have observed many a play style. The ships all cater to one or the other of these playstyles. All except for one...

The scrub. You know the type. Double gunner, attack straight on no matter what, and turn tail and run at the first sign of damage. No ship suits these players. That is, until now. LeMoon Industries of Anglea presents to you....

The Brig!
(http://i.imgur.com/VnWWWj6.png)

Take a tour in this moving picture show! (https://youtu.be/wQrrtv0i_2I)

Two gunners? No problem! Everything is easy access for one engineer!

Pilot does not have a clue about guns? No problem! Gun placement is low and in front of the helm, in easy view of even the blindest of sky rats.

Can't ever figure out where the enemy is? No problem! Our patented safety cage allows for unrivaled clear air views in almost every direction. Can also double as a crib!

Pilot runs from every fight? No problem! We have installed a heavy rear gun mount for all your retreating needs!

Engineers get lost on their way to the mailbox? No problem! No ladders or multiple levels to confuse those addled minds!

Finally, a state of the art full surround railing to keep everyone from falling off the ship (again).

Preorder your custom Brig today before the slavering powder monkeys get them all!

In all seriousness, this ship is a project of mine that is literally designed around the behaviors of the countless new players I have encountered. It is meant to be pre-Pyra skill level, with more advanced play styles possible at higher levels. If it would find no use at higher levels, it would still have served its purpose as 'training wheels' for the more complicated ships.

Lorewise, it is an Anglean light cargo vessel that doubles as a convoy escort focusing on medium frontal assault with rear disable/denial for pursuing attackers.

As I have not started the detail work or textures, I figure now is the time to get some broader feedback. Any suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Byron Cavendish on January 18, 2017, 01:04:17 am: My only criticism is that the balloon looks too small.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Solidusbucket on January 18, 2017, 01:11:38 am: I like it. Thoughts on ditching the heavy gun and just mirroring the front and back?

Will we ever see it in game? Maaaaybe. Intellectual property laws are a touchy subject.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: The Mann on January 18, 2017, 04:31:25 am: I WILL TAKE ONE!

no, make that 100 orders!

I will pay with my card.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: The Mann on January 18, 2017, 04:59:24 am: Oh and where are the claws from the old ship video?

Those were awesome! just imagine a goomba stomp with claws!
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: -Anakin- on January 18, 2017, 05:22:30 am: Is it intended for skirmish, alliance or both? If in skirmish, what's to stop it being horribly OP in the hands of vets who could use it to its full potential?
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Schwalbe on January 18, 2017, 05:33:22 am: Quote from: -Anakin- on January 18, 2017, 05:22:30 am
Is it intended for skirmish, alliance or both? If in skirmish, what's to stop it being horribly OP in the hands of vets who could use it to its full potential?

Probably the fact it will never be implemented, Anakin. :D
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Kira Wa Nai on January 18, 2017, 05:58:15 am: Please implement the heavy mine launcher first.
I want to be able to use two small mines on the front and a heavy one on the back on this.
Also move the engines to the sides so I can put on some eurobeat like "Running in the 9-0s" and go drifting.

On a more serious note, I appreciate the effort and think that we need more posts like this, but don't think that this one in particular is a good idea.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: The Mann on January 18, 2017, 06:12:08 am: This is not an official item people.

It is a design proposal with no connection to Muse Games.

I for one am a huge fan of Lemoons designs regardless if they're ever considered for guns or not.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Fynx on January 18, 2017, 08:05:53 am: It looks like the front guns' arcs aren't the same as on a pyramidion, there's no balloon protection and no side guns.
Additionally, speeds and accelerations can be adjusted so it's not an unbalanced ship.
Besides, it's simple in design, possible to be created by actual humans in that GOI physics reality, unlike most of those super complicated Alliance ships.

I don't know how much work it takes to put a ship in game, but I'd like to see it there.
In case of doubt, a bit of underbalance can be applied with slight (read: 10%, not 100%) periodic (read: weeks, not years) changes to make it viable.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Atruejedi on January 18, 2017, 08:39:49 am: I am a huge fan of this ship for so many reasons already mentioned by Richard in his original post. It really is a brilliant design, and I think it's the simplicity that makes it brilliant. Typically I shut Richard down on his pipe dreams (#ThanksMuse) after complimenting his incredible efforts and talents, but I'm going to humor him right now and engage in flights of fancy because I love the potential lore behind the ship design so much.

The front gun "forks" have a Millennium Falcon vibe to them. I imagine them lifting and transporting cargo. I assume that design choice is quite on purpose, but if not, perhaps the model could be tweaked to explicitly resemble cargo lifting forks. I do think the claws were a bit too much and I'm glad they've been removed. And I think Brig is a better name than Raven, which I'll get to in a bit...

The heavy gun mounted on the rear of the ship also gives me a "cargo hold" feel. I'd magnify that design aspect as well, somehow. Perhaps put the heavy gun on some sort of (obviously static) pneumatic lift that would (theoretically) lower to the ground while docked during civilian transport duties?

Is the balloon elevated so you'd have to look up at it to repair from below without jumping? I like that idea because it trains scrubs to think of repairs in three dimensions instead of only two. Could naturally enlighten novices to repair the hull and balloon of, say, Junkers, from below.

Finally, the name. Brig? I like it, but with reservations. Kind of short. Kind of similar, phonetically, to the Squid, which I don't like. Apparently "Brigadore" was a mythological horse. Perhaps go with that instead, since you know it'll be nicknamed the Brig anyway 8) And, after all, this ship is gonna be a workhorse for pilots like me engaged in my never-ending penance training scrubs. I can only assume the simple name "Brig" is a reference to the n00b prison it will become for the pilot, already trapped in a cage. More metaphors, please.

This all being said, I agree that the balloon is too small for all the heavy lifting and dragging I imagine this ship doing, lore-wise. A large balloon as a target would also help to balance it. I see it having pretty similar stats to a Goldfish as a basis for development. Bread-n-butter. I look forward to checking this thread in the future to see the minor tweaks!
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: HamsterIV on January 18, 2017, 12:02:34 pm: Noobs will still fly the galleon though. It is bigger and has bigger guns, that makes it better right? Also it looks like a pirate ships and they are all experts on naval warfare because they saw that Pirates of the Caribbean movie and can do an awesome pirate impression.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Kestril on January 18, 2017, 12:11:46 pm: Quote from: HamsterIV on January 18, 2017, 12:02:34 pm
Noobs will still fly the galleon though. It is bigger and has bigger guns, that makes it better right? Also it looks like a pirate ships and they are all experts on naval warfare because they saw that Pirates of the Caribbean movie and can do an awesome pirate impression.

Yes, and of course circle-strafing will work because it works with the junker, and that has broadsides, right? Because you have bigger guns, you will win the fight always. And if it messes up it's because my gunners can't hit with the slow hwacha rockets while I'm going at maximum speed. Also, I put a flamethrower on the side gun because flamers are The Best. Obviously. ;)

(newbie galleon pilots tilt me)

In all seriousness, I do love the design of Richard's ship. The rear-facing heavy opens up some unique possibilities for the higher levels and makes it unique among the other ships, but I'm still okay with it being the go-to newbie ship. I'd change the name to something sea-worthy like "lobster" or "shrimp" or "flounder."

I like flounder. Because newbies will be floundering on this ship.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: BlackenedPies on January 18, 2017, 01:02:17 pm: Quote from: HamsterIV on January 18, 2017, 12:02:34 pm
Noobs will still fly the galleon though. It is bigger and has bigger guns, that makes it better right? Also it looks like a pirate ships and they are all experts on naval warfare because they saw that Pirates of the Caribbean movie and can do an awesome pirate impression.

Release the Quaken!
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: DrTentacles on January 18, 2017, 01:12:04 pm: It's not a bad thing for newbs to fly the ship they want to fly. Galleon also has the benefit that everyone *can* man a gun if they want. The game just isn't balanced around galleon combat, though.

(Partially because of the fact that Heavy Guns are wonky as fuck.)
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: HamsterIV on January 18, 2017, 05:11:50 pm: It is my experience that the only one who gets a gun on a noob galleon is the captain. He leaves the throttle on full forward, notices an enemy behind him, runs to the rear gun, and gets some shots off. If one if his crew takes the helm to bring the side guns online the captain takes this as an affront to his authority Kicks the non captain off the helm and resumes plowing on ahead. They never die because the rest of the crew is tanking the hull/balloon and sometimes think they did quite well considering they only died once or twice while their ally was 2v1 the entire match.

I am just venting here.

Richard's ship is a fine design. Gentle enough for a noob, yet robust enough for a veteran.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Unarmed Civilian on January 18, 2017, 07:38:31 pm: Quote from: Richard LeMoon on January 17, 2017, 11:53:06 pm
It is meant to be pre-Pyra skill level...

First of all how dare you.

In all seriousness it's a reasonably unique layout. It's another 4 light turning engine ship, which is nice and is something there should be more of. Now we just need a double MAIN engine ship. All the current ones that look like double main engines are actually 4 turners.

Potential (maybe obvious) strategies I see is approaching someone with double gat to strip armor then both turning hard and throttling away to get the rear gun in line for a hwacha blast for a potential kill. I would personally try double front carronades with a rear hwacha/flak if this were in the game.

Also, reminds me of a lobster. Or a crayfish. If you want a ship name in line with the Goldfish, Squid, and Mobula, look at clawed crustaceans.

I disagree with the name "Brig (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brig)" on the grounds that it does not have two masts. Unless it's intended primarily for pirates, in which case I cede.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Richard LeMoon on January 18, 2017, 08:37:53 pm: First off, ship design in GOIO is level design. You have to think of ships in the same way you would a city block in a FPS. Every design choice will guide players to what you want them to do. Bad level design will end up with players confused, in odd placements, or simply not understanding the objective at all.

To answer some questions:

No, this is not an official WIP. It is my own fan creation. Will we ever see it ingame? Not unless I get a very strong green light. The work is less than 90% done. It needs further refinement and playtesting, the greeble (pointless decor that looks like it does something, but doesn't), at least 18 textures made or borrowed from Muse (most from the Corsair), animated parts, at least two LOD models and two stages of damage models for each LOD (9 models you can see), plus a player Collision mesh (10 ship models total), death animation, hitbox for balloon and hull, themes (more borrowing of assets), etc. And that is just the required art. This adds up to months of all of my free time. If it were green lit, I would most likely enlist people to help.

Yes, I have been considering making the balloon larger, especially after bulking up the lower part. The original model was smaller with odd engine placement. After I compared it to the profiles of other ships, it was way too small, so I stretched it out and bulked up the hull. The engines were too far out of 'engie paradise', so I moved them to the back.
(http://i.imgur.com/iIuvXCJ.png)

Mirroring front to back? No. That would confuse scrubs with too many guns. The one gun is specifically to bring all the scrubs to the back of the ship (to fight over) when the pilot runs. When they only have one gun, the two others will start fixing things. One heavy gun still always enough firepower without taking up two crew. Default scrub gun would be hwacha, of course.

Raging Geek, you mean this Heavy (turret) Mine Launcher (https://youtu.be/O7Bs0gszOZM)? Or the Heavy Remote Detonation Grenade Launcher they call a mine launcher in Alliance?

Overpowered in vet hands? Less so than the Pyra. As pointed out by someone else, the guns are easy to disable, the balloon is easy to hit, there is no gap between hull and balloon hitboxes, and engines are exposed. None of that matters to scrubs that shoot flak at balloons. It does matter to vets. The hull/balloon fixpoint column is given its odd placement behind the helm for a scrub/vet set of reasons as well. The pilot can't see the gun or enemy. In scrub case, combined with the distance, this discourages (not prevents, sadly) them from running back to the gun. There will be at least two crew already back there (fighting over the gun), so a runner pilot will have nothing to do but get back to the helm.

Where are the claws? They did not fit the Anglean aesthetic, so I went more utilitarian. To answer another question, I did not really consider them to be lifting arms, but it is an interesting thought. More like shunting arms. But, I can add some hooks. Maybe physics ones like lanterns so they sway with ship movement.

Yes, the balloon fixpoint is elevated. It is carefully placed just at the top of the center point of a level camera view. And yes, it is specifically that way to train scrubs to fix in 3d. The elevated engines are for the same reason, as well as keeping the 'fix this' side indicators from grouping up.

The name comes from the Brig class ships so kindly linked, in keeping with the Anglean naming conventions. Frigate and Corvette are ship classes larger than a Brig. A Corsair is just another name for pirate. A Brig is a nicely maneuverable fast ship often favored by pirates. It all fit. Goldfish, Squids, Mobs, etc all belong to other Factions, and I wanted to keep the lore tight (even if Muse can't xD). Also, I like the thought of throwing scrubs in the brig, a name for a prison. The ship's vertical bar layout lends to this.

Technically, it does have two small masts holding up the top square, and two triangle sails. So my naming is justified.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Brig3.png)

As far as stats, Goldfish-like stats would be a good place to start. I am hesitant to suggest movement stats until I see it in action. It is like an easy to disable Pyra from the front, blind side Pyra from both sides, but backwards flying Goldfish from the rear.

Scrubs should not be allowed to fly Galleons until they pass Galleon training (need to add ship-based tutorials/challenge modes). Any that try should be sent to the Brig. (see how fun that is?)
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Unarmed Civilian on January 18, 2017, 11:45:21 pm: Quote from: Richard LeMoon on January 18, 2017, 08:37:53 pm

The name comes from the Brig class ships so kindly linked, in keeping with the Anglean naming conventions. Frigate and Corvette are ship classes larger than a Brig. A Corsair is just another name for pirate. A Brig is a nicely maneuverable fast ship often favored by pirates. It all fit. Goldfish, Squids, Mobs, etc all belong to other Factions, and I wanted to keep the lore tight (even if Muse can't xD). Also, I like the thought of throwing scrubs in the brig, a name for a prison. The ship's vertical bar layout lends to this.

Technically, it does have two small masts holding up the top square, and two triangle sails. So my naming is justified.

Even if you were to call those bits of tapestry on poor excuses for masts sails, they're fore-and-aft rigged. On a proper brig, the two masts are square rigged, as in sails perpendicular to the keel. If you're going with that excuse then Schooner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schooner)would be a better fit, though it's more of a privateering and blockade-running ship. Better be maneuverable and fast though.

In all seriousness I like the fact that you're considering UI clutter. There's a specific ship in the game that can be hard to see the hull indicator on when gunning due to it being covered by the ammo indicator. Having the guns lower does a lot to prevent that.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: BobDoleReigns on January 20, 2017, 05:05:18 pm: I'm just going to say I love the heavy ass gun... too many ships currently are 'point at the enemy and keep them there' I could see this as a very fun low functioning squid (similar handling to the goldfish)... the thing I do notice is ramming (lbh noobs do this way more than they should) is almost wholey going to go to the balloon (even moreso than the fish)I don't know if this is intended or could be alleviated by shifting the balloon backwards but that would be one of my bigger concerns.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: Richard LeMoon on January 28, 2017, 07:01:53 pm: This may seem like a reverse WIP, posting newest images first, but I thought you might like to see where this ship started. It began with a floor plan, like all good levels should. The idea was always to place the two front guns where the pilot could look down at them and see exactly what they are doing. Good for scrubs and for training. The engine placement was up in the air. However, every good airship needs a good balloon. I wanted something unique that could not be mistaken for other ships. I searched high and low for interesting concepts, and came across this.

(http://i.imgur.com/YiJCfLU.jpg)

I based my balloon design around that, and started work on matching it to the floor plan. After robbing some gun platforms off a Goldfish and deciding on a WWII bomber theme (the pilot cage), this is the first result.

(http://i.imgur.com/bn6xxel.png)

Later, after the Alliance beta started, I decided to give the ship to the Anglean's. Now that the floor plan is roughly complete, all design will go into solidifying it as an Anglean escort ship turned privateer.
Title: Re: HEY SCRUBS! I have a ship for you.
Post by: SuteKhBaal on February 04, 2021, 10:38:22 am: Hehe, this is the Hyperion Airship of Disney movie "The Island at the Top of the World".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_at_the_Top_of_the_World (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_at_the_Top_of_the_World)