Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: awkm on April 30, 2013, 02:25:18 pm
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Everything about maps in v1.2
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Not really balance, but I think that the Labyrinth would work way better as a DM map. It's filled with spaces that would be amazing for sneaking around, but they're wasted, since the map's gameplay mostly consists of charging towards the centre repeatedly.
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Not really balance, but I think that the Labyrinth would work way better as a DM map. It's filled with spaces that would be amazing for sneaking around, but they're wasted, since the map's gameplay mostly consists of charging towards the centre repeatedly.
I'm gonna have to second this... I really wanna see this as a DM :)
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Not really balance, but I think that the Labyrinth would work way better as a DM map. It's filled with spaces that would be amazing for sneaking around, but they're wasted, since the map's gameplay mostly consists of charging towards the centre repeatedly.
It's in the works. The way it is now, I don't think will cater to DM. I want buildings and very few large open areas. This is why I waited.
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Not really balance, but I think that the Labyrinth would work way better as a DM map. It's filled with spaces that would be amazing for sneaking around, but they're wasted, since the map's gameplay mostly consists of charging towards the centre repeatedly.
It's in the works. The way it is now, I don't think will cater to DM. I want buildings and very few large open areas. This is why I waited.
You sir, are amazing! though that means there will be even more buildings for me to crash into :P
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Not really balance, but I think that the Labyrinth would work way better as a DM map. It's filled with spaces that would be amazing for sneaking around, but they're wasted, since the map's gameplay mostly consists of charging towards the centre repeatedly.
It's in the works. The way it is now, I don't think will cater to DM. I want buildings and very few large open areas. This is why I waited.
You sir, are amazing! though that means there will be even more buildings for me to crash into :P
I can't wait to see how that turns out. The more tight maps, the better.
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Would you consider increasing the respawn time on King of the Hill Labyrinth? It takes so little time to cross the map, games often turn into mad dashes to block captures, against which there isn't really a functional tactic that I've seen.
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Would you consider increasing the respawn time on King of the Hill Labyrinth? It takes so little time to cross the map, games often turn into mad dashes to block captures, against which there isn't really a functional tactic that I've seen.
Right now, I don't have local control of map spawn times. It's global meaning it will affect all maps. Maybe I should spawn you in some tights spots :P
I reduced the capture time on Labyrinth to attempt to mitigate this but any messing around with spawn times will require some extra features which we didn't have time to implement.
Point noted though.
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It is worth noting, as already said, it is incredibly hard to dislodge a team from a captured point, I've been in matches where we could do it, but this was more due from a skill gap between the teams rather then any strategy.
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That's why I've never been a fan of KOTH maps. If we learned anything from the cogs it's that everyone likes to camp. The fixes to moving and shooting will help a bit, but it's still advantageous to be on the defensive.
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i think you should decrease the size of the capture zone to make it harder for people to block it
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i think you should decrease the size of the capture zone to make it harder for people to block it
Lol, I'll make it so you have to go inside the globe.
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i think you should decrease the size of the capture zone to make it harder for people to block it
Lol, I'll make it so you have to go inside the globe.
Why does that sound like a terrible idea...
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I love it, we can call it the firestone maneuvere to capture it.
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The thing is, if the point is smaller it'll be also harder to cap just because of the difficulty of maneuvering to it... therefore easier to defend. I don't think it's the right thing to do here. I might play around with the clouds in the area and decrease the number of static ones. That should help a bunch. Furthermore, I don't like using COGS as any kind of benchmark for balance except for identifying fringe cases (which is incredibly useful). It's competitive play with the best players. Balancing the game to them is not balance. There are other people that play as well. In casual play, I've seen the point flip a bunch of times.
However, as usual I will keep my eye on it. I have so many eyes!
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Even in low level play, koth is a drag. Perhaps the longer you hold a point, the faster the timer. That way good games last longer and bad games end quickly.
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so yesterday we played a match in the labyrinth and cornelis got stuck at 1 point, i think he couldn't even turn.
here's a pic: http://i.imgur.com/uFJVN41.jpg
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so yesterday we played a match in the labyrinth and cornelis got stuck at 1 point, i think he couldn't even turn.
here's a pic: http://i.imgur.com/uFJVN41.jpg
We'll look into it.
There may be some strange collision issues since we made changes with it. Nothing to do with maps.
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why not have a sandbox for every map?
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why not have a sandbox for every map?
Strongly agreed.
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Agreed
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What about making Labirynth Crazy KOTH (or how it's named?), so it would be still CP (it's logical, why would people fight in town for nothing, it should be worth to capture), but would make more parts of map used?
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why not have a sandbox for every map?
This may be more difficult than you expect. May require gutting some stuff out on the codebase.
Regardless, I'll put it into the backlog.
What about making Labirynth Crazy KOTH (or how it's named?), so it would be still CP (it's logical, why would people fight in town for nothing, it should be worth to capture), but would make more parts of map used?
The city tileset will be reused to accomodate at least 2 more game modes. Not necessarily the same layout either. Just same look and feel.
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Playing as it is now, Labyrinth is such that unless I am inside the capture point balloon in a rather inappropriate manner, I can't block the enemy's points. Actually, while we're changing the point over to our own color, we can't block their points.
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Here's a stupid idea: Why not keep labyrinth like it is, but make the point move? It would be the first game to have mobile KOTH. The globe keeps zipping through the streets and to keep the point captured you have to follow it. Could be cool.
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That would be good once the buildings aren't made out of gravity. The way collision is detected with them, they have a tendency to grab and never let go.
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Yeah, a good example was in the Raft vs. PaFa game. Our ship got up close to a bridge, and got velcroed to it, leaving us helpless while our balloon and hull were crushed by the walls.
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Soooo... is there a reason the maps down rotate in games any more? Kinda sick of having 75% of the games be stuck on Dunes :-\
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Map vote was disabled due to the large influx of players causing the timers to move like molasses (Which was making us CAs work extra hard force starting games)... could probably be turned back on now, but I wouldn't hold me to that
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No rotating maps has = newbie frustration.
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I didn't realize how annoying it was before map voting until we had it, then lost it. And you thought Cp games were few and far between with voting on, lol...
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Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(
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Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(
They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.
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Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(
They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.
I think they were, actually. Either that or they were randomly chosen.
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Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(
They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.
I think they were, actually. Either that or they were randomly chosen.
Ah if you remember, that was actually a bug for a time. If you swayed a vote, you could normally still pick the map you wanted, despite it showing the wrong one.
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Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(
They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.
I think they were, actually. Either that or they were randomly chosen.
Ah if you remember, that was actually a bug for a time. If you swayed a vote, you could normally still pick the map you wanted, despite it showing the wrong one.
No... That's not what I'm referring to at all.
Before map voting was implemented (1.1.3 or something like that), you had no power over which map was chosen. I distinctly remember the map changing between matches, so it was either on a rotation or random.
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Well then my memory has indeed failed me. It's a normal occurrence...
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Yeah, I thought it was on a regular rotation, maps depending on how many ships vs there was. If nothing else it'd be nice to get that back :)
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Agreed. Map rotation needs to come back in some form.
As another issue, I believe Anglean Raiders needs to be looked at. In its current state, optimal play involves playing Squids and avoiding combat entirely. While this can be fun in itself, it only is for the Pilot and not the crew. I love objective oriented gameplay, but at the end of the day objectives only exist to facilitate combat in an interesting and strategic manner.
The solution to its unpopularity seems simple to me: remove the center point, C, and adjust the 4 outer points more towards the center of the map, or however it works. As it stands, you can easily just decapture points while opponents are busy elsewhere, constantly outrunning them unless they're in Squids as well.
And while this is theoretically balanced for two competent teams, it's just not fun for public games, where I feel it could be without sacrificing and strategic depth. Making only 4 capture points would mean you have to go to the enemy and deploy your forces intelligently to get an advantage. Maneuvering would still exist, especially through the center portion.
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Agreed with NikolaiLev on how the meta for Anglean Raiders is skewed towards squids and dodging combat. I think a more interesting solution would be to remove two of the capture points. The most efficient strategy right now seems to be each ship run to capture a point. If one enemy is encountered try to fight them off. If two enemies are encountered run to the undefended point of the enemy team. However if there were just three capture points sending two ships to take a capture point would not leave a capture point undefended.
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What if it was like crazy king, but with two active points instead of one on Anglean?
Reduce the amount of points gained from the capture, but also put a stall time between when points are up, also make it random.
This would have the effect that each team would rush for the middle when the capture points turn off, to gain a better position for when they turn back on again. Since its random which point goes live, the best strat is to always to for the middle and try to hold it, this might bring in some ship diversity as some ships, the galleon, are better at holding a single position but to slow to get a capture. Disabling would be important over killing to knock another ship down so it can't race for one of the two points when they pop.
Since its 3v3 you'll likely always have some kind of harassment, or unbalanced fight on the map as players try to deny access to the other team while capturing another point. It could be pretty hectic.
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I really wish the crazy king was random. The predictable order isn't really crazy at all, and is more annoying than anything.
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I really wish the crazy king was random. The predictable order isn't really crazy at all, and is more annoying than anything.
At first I always thought it would be too, but they opted for the ordered change so more strategy comes out of it. If they changed randomly, you would need a goldfish/squid to be the most effective, and I imagine they wanted to avoid forcing certain boats on certain maps to win.
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Hyper Crazy King: After a random time interval a random number of randomly selected points activate or deactivate. The score you receive for any individual point is randomly assigned and randomly fluctuates over time.
More seriously, the predictability helps with strategy. Otherwise it's true that Goldfish and Squid would win. I personally want to see more old maps converted to crazy king. It's simply more fun. An actual suggestion would be that at around 60 seconds or so and indicator could show up on the next point, but have what the next point to activate be random. That way you can still leave early and get to the next point without being able to predict it months in advance. It would open up new routes to fly on.
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I really wish the crazy king was random. The predictable order isn't really crazy at all, and is more annoying than anything.
At first I always thought it would be too, but they opted for the ordered change so more strategy comes out of it. If they changed randomly, you would need a goldfish/squid to be the most effective, and I imagine they wanted to avoid forcing certain boats on certain maps to win.
If the points were closer together, that would also avoid forcing ship choices.
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Just a question about "Raid on the Refinery." Why in the bleepity bleep does the red team always spawn on top of the first point?
I've seen it from both blue and red perspective and the first point is almost always D or E where the red teams spawn.
Is this my bad luck or what?
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The initial point on Crazy King maps is completely random.
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Balance on KOTH maps seems difficult. While I like the idea of moving points, it would slide the map in the favor of maneuverable ships. Sedentary points I think shift the map in favor of heavy ships with heavy guns. I think the best idea might simply be to put a timer on the map, and leaving the points stay where they are. Fast ships would get a bit of an advantage first, being able to get to the points faster and get some points in before the heavies arrive. But once the heavies arrive, they would get the advantage of firepower. Tweak the points to be a smaller area, so that it's not so easy for both ships to camp in a good spot. And you have a recipe for a fairly well balanced game. This may also persuade teams to mix the types of ships up, so that you have a fast ship for early game, and a heavy for mid-late game.
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I'm not too fond of koth right now.
The issue is taking the point is a huge advantage for the team.
So I suggest that while the capping time may stay as long to avoid just sneakily take points (which is an issue mostly on multi/moving point maps, that starting to take it immediately blocks the counter. I'm not sure it's the case right now, as I have lost while reclaiming the point.
Additionaly, the koth situated in the desert leads to rough experience, that's fun for a couple times but not much more. That spot with no place to manoeuver combined with heavy sandstorms makes for an powerless feeling most of the time, which is something you want to avoid generally. (same when your ballon/engines are shot down at infinitum, though this is player made)
Still about Koth maps, I think 5 cp for 4 or 3 ships is not viable. Ideally 3 cp maps for the same number of ships would make more interesting situations .
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People complaining about KOTH! My time to shine. The main issue in my opinion is boredom. If one team is a lot better they just hold the point all game. Boring. If they are even matched then it either flip flops or whoever got there first wins. Both boring. The only interesting games are one where the teams are slightly imbalanced and the worse team gets the point first.
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The roving sand storm in Desert scrap gives an advantage to the attacking team, if they know how to use it. The attackers can ride in just behind the storm they can catch the defenders as they are recovering. Unfortunately any team that has the skill and coordination to pull off such an attack are probably already winning and thus defending the point.
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All true, though the sandstorm winds up helping the defenders more often then not if you don't kill all three defenders very quickly.
The sandstorm will pause the combat and allow the dead defenders to make it back an reinforce the defense bringing the attackers back to square one.
What if the storms moved slower or cycled less frequently? That actually might consistently help the attackers.