Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: VidyaBro on March 03, 2016, 12:14:46 am
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So after a fair deal of searching I found a few posts bringing this up in some old threads but none of them really focused on the issue, so I'm going out on a limb by making one here.
Why are friendly ships' names not displayed in matches? I've been playing this game for a fair bit now and it constantly irritates me that there is no way to easily tell at a glance which ships are your teammates' and where exactly they are. Is there a reason the devs still haven't incorporated this feature into the game as at least an option? It seems to me to be an extremely basic and helpful feature in team-based games, and I don't see any reason why it would be detrimental to this one.
Correct me if I'm missing something, but from what I can tell this feature would only serve to make the game better.
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It's just part of the game, something you got to get used to. You try and spot the ship, if it doesn't spot, it's an ally. If you shoot it and you don't get hit markers, it's an ally. If there are 2 ships spotted, that 3rd one is your ally. Allies are displayed on your map, so all you have to do if you're confused is check.
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It's just part of the game, something you got to get used to. You try and spot the ship, if it doesn't spot, it's an ally. If you shoot it and you don't get hit markers, it's an ally. If there are 2 ships spotted, that 3rd one is your ally. Allies are displayed on your map, so all you have to do if you're confused is check.
What is the point of not just displaying ally names though? I can only see this benefiting the game.
Checking ally ships with the spyglass isn't very reliable because enemy ships often won't get spotted when you can clearly see them anyway; having allies' names displayed also allows teammates to visually locate each other through terrain or other visual obstacles. The problem with using the map to locate teammates is that it obscures the screen and only shows ally locations in two dimensions, while the compass only shows their horizontal direction relative to you within 180 degrees. The fact that flag colors are so drab also complicates the problem, and the fact that you usually switch from one team color to another frequently between matches only compounds that.
"Because it's always been that way" is not an argument, and I see no reason why the function shouldn't at least be an OPTION for players who for some reason prefer the way things are.
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Default Map button is M.
On the map displays the ally ship location (I think it displays ship names too but the map changed recently and I'm not 100% sure.)
In the top centre of the screen is the ingame compass which will show the ally as the team colour dot and their direction, it also gives an idea if they're high or low.
Increase your map awareness and you will soon realise why this feature is un-needed, it just takes a little practice.
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Also, you have your allies permanently marked on your compass.
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In case anyone missed it, in my previous post I addressed why the map and compass are relatively inefficient/ineffective for locating allies in three dimensions in real-time.
Having teammates' ships 'spotted' by default would allow players to gain immediate visual confirmation of all allies at any time, which is instrumental in coordinating tactics in such a positioning-heavy game as this.
I don't see why something like this would be bad for this game, but let me know if I'm missing something.
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In case anyone missed it, in my previous post I addressed why the map and compass are relatively inefficient/ineffective for locating allies in three dimensions in real-time.
Having teammates' ships 'spotted' by default would allow players to gain immediate visual confirmation of all allies at any time, which is instrumental in coordinating tactics in such a positioning-heavy game as this.
I don't see why something like this would be bad for this game, but let me know if I'm missing something.
The compass allows reading the third dimension and the map awareness is something everyone should be keeping an eye on.
Also team colours exist, though not easily visible, I just think automatically "spotted" allies is removing a good mechanic of the game in favour of dumbing it down, without much reason when there are many ways to effectively not need such a mechanic, sorry.
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Also team colours exist, though not easily visible, I just think automatically "spotted" allies is removing a good mechanic of the game in favour of dumbing it down, without much reason when there are many ways to effectively not need such a mechanic, sorry.
I agree and disagree... I do like the "is that an ally or enemy!?" surprise moments, BUT! I hate it when I'm bunched up with an ally and can't tell how close to me or WHERE exactly they are... perhaps at a certain proximity (nearly point-blank) they'd have their allied names automatically revealed? This would be helpful to avoid accidentally rising up or lowering on to allies, which happens fairly often.
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Also team colours exist, though not easily visible, I just think automatically "spotted" allies is removing a good mechanic of the game in favour of dumbing it down, without much reason when there are many ways to effectively not need such a mechanic, sorry.
I agree and disagree... I do like the "is that an ally or enemy!?" surprise moments, BUT! I hate it when I'm bunched up with an ally and can't tell how close to me or WHERE exactly they are... perhaps at a certain proximity (nearly point-blank) they'd have their allied names automatically revealed? This would be helpful to avoid accidentally rising up or lowering on to allies, which happens fairly often.
But those bumps are just like little high fives.
Jokes aside, to avoid that, an increase in pilot communication helps...
Cronus League me and Insio on Water Hazard, and I quote, Insio: "Don't go down, we are right under you."
I had to use all my might to not come out with the obvious "I like being on top" Innuendo's.
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I don't see this as a horribly bad idea. Maybe the design of how the "spot" looks would be up for question, but that could go either way. At it's essence, it would really just be a quality of life kind of thing. Sure, as max level mlg pro super vet players, WE all know we can cover our screen with the map, give away our position by firing a test shot, or click a dozen times to see if the spot mechanic is broken cause they're near a cloud or working fine and they're our ally. Perhaps stare at that threesome of hwachafish and compare it to the compass for a bit to see which one has your color's dot. Or squint really closely at that red-ballooned ship to see if they actually have your team's blue flags. Maybe even "communicate" with our silent lvl 1 who probably turned voice chat off so he can't hear you shouting at him to stop flying off the map.
Alright yes this is some very heavy-handed sarcasm, but the point I'm making is just because we've found ways around the game to make it work for us, doesn't necessarily mean a little quality of life like showing your ally's position is such a bad thing. It might even help the lower levels who don't know anything stick closer to where the fight's at if they have a more obvious indication of where you're going. It wouldn't change anything about how we play in the slightest, just help people see a bit better.
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If I recall correctly Muse intentionally made the telling the difference between friendly and enemy ships difficult to encourage communication between Captain and crew. Since the captain will almost never carry a spyglass, they have to rely on their crew to spot ships and identify friend/foe. It makes the information exchange between captain and crew a 2 way thing even before combat starts.
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I don't see this as a horribly bad idea. Maybe the design of how the "spot" looks would be up for question, but that could go either way. At it's essence, it would really just be a quality of life kind of thing. Sure, as max level mlg pro super vet players, WE all know we can cover our screen with the map, give away our position by firing a test shot, or click a dozen times to see if the spot mechanic is broken cause they're near a cloud or working fine and they're our ally. Perhaps stare at that threesome of hwachafish and compare it to the compass for a bit to see which one has your color's dot. Or squint really closely at that red-ballooned ship to see if they actually have your team's blue flags. Maybe even "communicate" with our silent lvl 1 who probably turned voice chat off so he can't hear you shouting at him to stop flying off the map.
Alright yes this is some very heavy-handed sarcasm, but the point I'm making is just because we've found ways around the game to make it work for us, doesn't necessarily mean a little quality of life like showing your ally's position is such a bad thing. It might even help the lower levels who don't know anything stick closer to where the fight's at if they have a more obvious indication of where you're going. It wouldn't change anything about how we play in the slightest, just help people see a bit better.
It would be an additional change towards what is already looking like a multitude of changes being made to the game for the simple sake of dumbing it down....
Hwacha jitter reduction because people couldn't figure out how to use heavy ammo, hwacha becomes the weapon that dominates the skies because it is idiot proof.
Squid balance changes suggest Muse want to make Squid easier to pilot by turning the side gun forward, because knowing gun arcs is not idiot proof enough.
The more the list gets added to, the less appealing the game becomes to some of us who have been here for a long time.
Now I agree player retention is low but if the game continues to become idiot proof and get dumbed down, then some vets will leave and the core player base will get smaller... There would be no one to welcome the annoying lvl 1 pilots that we play with.
Oh and to reply to your heavy sarcasm, Egg you know me, and you know damn well I play with novices and pub matches a lot more than I play with other higher level pilots, I know how annoying all the situations can be, so you need not treat my point of view as if it is coming from someone who only ever looks at the end game play.
The game has a learning curve, it can seem steep at first and most vets will say it's steep, but too much "quality of life" changes (read dumbing down changes) could do more damage to the game than good.
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It would be an additional change towards what is already looking like a multitude of changes being made to the game for the simple sake of dumbing it down....
Hwacha jitter reduction because people couldn't figure out how to use heavy ammo, hwacha becomes the weapon that dominates the skies because it is idiot proof.
Squid balance changes suggest Muse want to make Squid easier to pilot by turning the side gun forward, because knowing gun arcs is not idiot proof enough.
The more the list gets added to, the less appealing the game becomes to some of us who have been here for a long time.
Now I agree player retention is low but if the game continues to become idiot proof and get dumbed down, then some vets will leave and the core player base will get smaller... There would be no one to welcome the annoying lvl 1 pilots that we play with.
Oh and to reply to your heavy sarcasm, Egg you know me, and you know damn well I play with novices and pub matches a lot more than I play with other higher level pilots, I know how annoying all the situations can be, so you need not treat my point of view as if it is coming from someone who only ever looks at the end game play.
The game has a learning curve, it can seem steep at first and most vets will say it's steep, but too much "quality of life" changes (read dumbing down changes) could do more damage to the game than good.
All those things you listed are very major balance changes though. Not even close to just being "quality of life." Just adding a name to your ally's position hardly affects anything. To be honest, I agree that Muse should and probably does have much higher priorities than this, but for the sake of arguing whether or not it's a good idea to someday implement given they have free time it's hardly fair to put it in the same category as a Hwacha buff and a gun arc change.
What I mean by "quality of life" is something that doesn't affect gameplay balance at all, but makes the game feel more convenient and polished to play. Small examples would be allowing players to enter queue by pressing play just once, instead of twice. Or letting people quit the game from lobby instead of having to press several different "back" and "exit" buttons.
Imagine for a second a world where when engineering there's no indicator of the cooldown of a component. You just have to count to nine seconds to know if you can hit something with the mallet again. Definitely a bad idea to implement a cooldown indicator. People should just communicate that they've hit the engine. Noobs these days should just learn to count to nine. Obviously Muse just wants to "dumb down" the game for noobs, by adding this cooldown indicator and we're going to lose all our vets and core playerbase.
Also, whether or not you agree with the changes they make, saying they're doing it "for the simple sake of dumbing it down" is an insulting exaggeration that is undoubtedly not true. Then again, I don't work there. Maybe they have a monkey sitting at a desk that they use for testing and if the monkey goes "ooo ooo aa aa" in dissatisfaction because it can't figure the game out they decide it's time for a patch. Anyone from Muse wanna chime in on that one?
As far as losing players over this, perhaps if the balance changes previously mentioned ruin the game so badly that the apocalypse comes and guns of icarus is ruined forever I can see why people might leave it. But to leave over a small thing like "ugh I can see where my team is now" is so petty that I'll send them off with a smile and throw a party to celebrate their departure.
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OverlordEgg really hit the nail on the head for what I've been trying to get at for a while now.
Pure "quality of life" changes do nothing but remove unnecessary tedium/convolution. The argument that making things less intuitive 'encourages players to work together more' is a huge stretch in terms of logic, considering many if not most players would rather just stop playing if things were needlessly complicated than be forced to try and constantly communicate with their teammates.
If anything I'd say quality of life changes actually encourage teamwork by allowing players to coordinate their efforts without having to manually communicate every waking moment, especially since people often talk over each other in voice chat and text chat/orders leaves them unable to do anything else momentarily.
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I'm sorry to say I disagree with this being a cha ge to encourage team work..
What I see is "Let's encourage team work by adding a feature which removes the need to communicate ship positioning."
The more "quality of life" features which get added to "encourage team work" would simply result in much less communication required.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, when training team work and cooperation, the encouraging of communication, especially essential and potentially essential information is a strong part of that.
So sorry guys, I disagree, I think this "quality of life feature" is just another "let's make this less team play" and I very much doubt any amount of debating, arguing and disagreeing will sell me to like this idea.
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Also, I want to point out, that this will remove goofy explainations of hitting an ally with mines.
"Oh, I'm sorry I thought you were an enemy [trollface]"
"YOU CAN SEE MY NAME CLEARLY"
[awkward silence]
[lochnagar mines]
...
No, thank you.
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I'm sorry to say I disagree with this being a cha ge to encourage team work..
What I see is "Let's encourage team work by adding a feature which removes the need to communicate ship positioning."
The more "quality of life" features which get added to "encourage team work" would simply result in much less communication required.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, when training team work and cooperation, the encouraging of communication, especially essential and potentially essential information is a strong part of that.
So sorry guys, I disagree, I think this "quality of life feature" is just another "let's make this less team play" and I very much doubt any amount of debating, arguing and disagreeing will sell me to like this idea.
"Is that our ally's name on the screen?"
"Oh yeah so it is. This changes my plan completely. Let's go fly away from the battle and never speak again. Clearly teamwork was never intended to be in this game."
I see where you're coming from, but I think you're overreacting a bit with the whole "Oh no if we add this all teamwork will stop" routine. For all we know it could encourage better tactical coordination by polluting the comms with less irrelevant chatter.
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This is a no for me, it's part of the way battling goes... Sorry.
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Why not just add the ability to spot allied ships? And spotted friendly ships will appear with some indication that they're friendly. Problem solved.
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That is some solution, but not without flaws.
As it is right now, when you see a white rectangle with a name - you know it's an enemy. You don't have to focus on it, mere glance is enough to know.
Your idea breaks that a little, unless, I don't know - allied spot has completely different color; which still doesn't change a different fact - it might litter the bloody screen.
Also, this still screws with the idea of general communication between captains and crews mentioned earlier.
This is how I see this, I mean - first things that comes to my mind from a gameplay design standpoint. ^^
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This is how I see this, I mean - first things that comes to my mind from a gameplay design standpoint. ^^
I'd definitely agree on the UI clutter.
I think the simplest solution would be to simply brighten the team colors on ships, or increase the number of places those colors occur. It's subtle, but would increase visibility without invalidating the need for communication.
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This is how I see this, I mean - first things that comes to my mind from a gameplay design standpoint. ^^
I'd definitely agree on the UI clutter.
I think the simplest solution would be to simply brighten the team colors on ships, or increase the number of places those colors occur. It's subtle, but would increase visibility without invalidating the need for communication.
I disagree with the UI clutter. In fact, I've seen this put into practice in almost every other team game I've played. Warthunder, Depth, or even slightly more relatable, World of Warships. All of these indicate who's a teammate in some way, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I could make the list waaaay longer. It didn't ruin the experience, it didn't "dumb down" the experience, it didn't fill my screen with "clutter." In practice, this is something you can see at work all over the place, and yet here it's such a threat to our intelligence and gaming experience? Please. It's just a small change that would at worst make the game look slightly more polished, and as far as I see it, goi could use a little polish.
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I would also like to point out that we've already removed the need to communicate our exact position by putting it on the map. So, I guess the proper solution is to remove the map? Don't want the game to be too easy for people.
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I say so long as the spot is merely ship names floating as opposed to the spot squares seen on enemy ships makes it easy enough to not confuse matters.
Thats the only reason really stopping the game (besides possible technical issues as a result which I doubt to be THAT bad).
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This is how I see this, I mean - first things that comes to my mind from a gameplay design standpoint. ^^
I'd definitely agree on the UI clutter.
I think the simplest solution would be to simply brighten the team colors on ships, or increase the number of places those colors occur. It's subtle, but would increase visibility without invalidating the need for communication.
I disagree with the UI clutter. In fact, I've seen this put into practice in almost every other team game I've played. Warthunder, Depth, or even slightly more relatable, World of Warships. All of these indicate who's a teammate in some way, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I could make the list waaaay longer. It didn't ruin the experience, it didn't "dumb down" the experience, it didn't fill my screen with "clutter." In practice, this is something you can see at work all over the place, and yet here it's such a threat to our intelligence and gaming experience? Please. It's just a small change that would at worst make the game look slightly more polished, and as far as I see it, goi could use a little polish.
Words in my mouth much? When did I accuse it of anything close to dumbing down the game?
As for UI clutter, I enjoy the relative sparseness of GoI. Purely personal preference. I would rather not have more information on my screen. That's all. I haven't found many situations where my piloting or gunning has been seriously impeded by the lack of this feature (I understand others may disagree), so to me it isn't worth the trade-off of more UI elements that I personally find unappealing in this specific game for personal aesthetic reasons.
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Words in my mouth much? When did I accuse it of anything close to dumbing down the game?
Sorry, I was addressing everybody, not just you. Didn't mean to imply you said everything. And I don't mean to imply that this is the best thing ever, or that it would revolutionize goi, but people are shooting it down with reasoning like "oh we'll all become stupider, the game will be too simple." I don't know about you, but I don't think I'd miss the noob teammates emptying their hwacha into me.
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Since the captain will almost never carry a spyglass
I miss those days... It reminds of days when I gave a crap while pubbing.