Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Byron Cavendish on December 13, 2015, 09:35:10 am
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We all get it. We know it worked fantastically to bring in new blood for a few years. No one is denying it was effective, but it is not anymore. Stop throwing time and money at a dead horse. This is not the golden ticket to making GOIO more populated. Retention has to be fixed before any more promos. Let's take a look at the youtuber/sale figures, based off of steam charts (http://steamcharts.com/app/209080#All). Green for spring sale, orange for fall sale.
March 25-April 29, 2013: Average players went from 366 to 2,009.
August 26-September 30, 2013: Average players went from 498 to 2,207.
Oct. 28-Nov. 25, 2013: Average players went from 392 to 1,835.
March 31-April 28, 2014: Average players went from 349 to 4,043.
August 25-November 2,237: Average players went from 457 to 2,237.
March 30-April 27, 2015: Average players went from 402 to 3,175.
Oct 26-Nov. 16, 2015: Average players went from 347 to 797.
As of Nov. 30th, that number stabilized at 456. I don't really need to say much more, to realize that number is drastically lower than any other sale. The youtuber thing is done. We have milked it dry. Please, stop. You guys need to come at sales, promos, and mo8st importantly retention at a new angle, or you won't have a population to greet Alliance when it is ready.
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What do you suggest as an alternative?
Ultimately though I do want this game to be a highly competitive scene.
Much like street fighter and smash and starcraft.
Doesn't have to be esports. Just something for people to look at and think "I can do better than that scrub."
The youtubers present it as a fun game for dick around in. It creates the wrong impression of the tone, where in actuality by design. The game is geared towards very serious play. One moment lapse in concentration and your whole ship can die. You need to present the game with that serious hardcore gamer tone. And you can't do that with lets players who are typically known to just be shite at video games.
That being said it might not be youtubers but more the wrong choice of youtubers.
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The only thing that I've long suggested is more focus on the e-sport side of it. The game has such high potential for serious e-sport attraction. I understand that there was complications and drama when we were close to getting MLG support but...it feels like a missed opportunity, that we didn't fight hard enough for. Any online game that has thrived has usually done so because of it's e-sport, like starcraft, moba's, mmo pvp, shooters such as CoD. Rocket League focused on it from the get go, and now they have major MLG focus and 200,000+ players across all its platforms. Amazing for an indie game.
The other thing is finishing console support. Again, another missed opportunity that would have increased exposure and population.
Jazz, I think you nailed it though. Youtubers aren't the issue, it's getting the RIGHT youtubers. I don't follow many besides joe, but I'm sure there are serious, intellectual youtubers who look at indie games from a competitive angle.
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orange for fall sale
Or, for the rest of the world, autumn sale.
Jokes aside, watching the promotional videos of youtubers during the last sale was highly cancerous for me for various reasons. For instance Angry Joe shooting carronade into hull and saying "This weapon is pointless! It doesn't do anything!".
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This game just needed content updates on a similar level to other multiplayer-only indie titles in the same price range.
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well this thread isn't moving...
Right a good way to promote the competitive scene is to have competitions in cons.
Invite our top murica players to come to a con to join a high level tourney or even create an open invite, muse provide a prize and consolation swag. Stream it.
Get the casters to cast loudly into a speaker and be the hypemen.
Winners in-game get a special wanted status or perma-wanted status to challenge people to come and fight the winners. Notorious ~(exclusive comp winner title) players (I think the name would be cool), give extra points for wanted + times by per kill more than death.
Then next year returning champion defends.
something perpetual like this, some kind of goal that demands people to get good.
Hell if its hard to organise a live event. Just stream the event on screen at the muse booth with casting.
And have a separate small live open competition that wins cheap ass merc or codes.
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What dutch said. Content updates are how multiplayer pvp games stay interesting to players and thus alive. Personally I think the ships are balanced fine against each other, but it gets boring with only 2 gamemodes. From what I understand art assets are a huge bottleneck for muse because they're a small team, and that's understandable that they don't release many. But gamemodes are engineering effort (and some ui design), no artwork. I don't understand why they don't implement for example VIP as a gamemode, it would add so much more variety.
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I always said they should not have bothered to spend time on co-op mode. goio could have been so much greater.
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They tried e-sport...they rushed into it with a broken game and e-sports canned involvement.
COOP is important because it'll reach a larger chunk of the potential player base. Star Citizen stats alone show about a 70/30 gap between their COOP mode and PVP mode. Sometimes it goes up to 80/20. Again in MMOs, the most popular servers are PVE servers, not PVP. Stats alone show that GOIO COOP is a smart move.
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Stop citing SC for E-Sports you fools! Blizzard murdered that with horrible balancing a lack of attention... D:
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They tried e-sport...they rushed into it with a broken game and e-sports canned involvement.
COOP is important because it'll reach a larger chunk of the potential player base. Star Citizen stats alone show about a 70/30 gap between their COOP mode and PVP mode. Sometimes it goes up to 80/20. Again in MMOs, the most popular servers are PVE servers, not PVP. Stats alone show that GOIO COOP is a smart move.
Those stats really don't apply to goio at all... Goio has unique gameplay that doesn't seem to work well in pve based on the existing 'prototype'. Star citizen is not a balanced pvp game, hornets will ruin my aurora so i don't play any pvp. And in mmo's i get the impression there is just a much larger amount of content created for pve.
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In the first GOIO video by Angry Joe you see Muse purposefully kill themselves. Two years later and there's still no videos of anyone who knows what they're doing. Search GOIO on YouTube and there's nothing but embarrassing content. I'm ashamed of the promotional videos.
It's easy to blame Muse for this but it's not them. Muse wants players to have fun by experimenting, but that's not how it works. We're the only ones who can teach them. You can make the difference if you try.
On May 23 I sent this email (http://textuploader.com/5uz3v) to AngryJoe@angryjoeshow.com
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There are a couple errors, here and there, but this is my overall opinion on the current state of affairs, regarding player retention. Feel free to correct me, or add insight :)
Wall of text warning!
Summary
As of August 2012 the beginning of the product life cycle of Guns of Icarus Online, up to December, 1, 2015, Muse's product GIO has seen massive swings in customer base (base amount of customers on at any given point). These massive swings have resulted in only small gains in customer base, leading to the conclusion that customer retention is not being maintained at a reasonable rate. This plan is to highlight why this problem exists and to offer a solution that could solve this problem. This plan will first identify the problems with the current marketing strategy and then it will outline a solution that can fix the current state of affairs. The final points will be in regards to the costs and benefits of this specific solution, along with expert advice inserted when needed throughout the paper.
Problems
As mentioned earlier, Muse Games has seen poor retention rates even though the product has amassed many positive reviews as well as awards. Poor retention rates lead to customer use fluctuating greatly, usually in a pattern of a spike in growth in one month with a loss in customer base spread out over the following months. This usually ends with the player base back to before the spike in growth (as seen by the steam chart). Retention as stated by Forbes Editor Jerry Jao is the key to a company’s success. As Jao puts it, customer retention is by the most necessary parts of a company, and goes on to state that companies need to go as far as to restructure in order to eliminate poor retention (Jao). GIO is far from that state though, as the reason for its low retention rate stems from its current marketing strategy
The first problem of the current marketing strategy, is how customers are brought to the product. Many customers are attracted to GIO by social media entertainers from sites like YouTube. These customers are not usually attracted to the game, but the entertainer themselves. This can be inferred from the steam charts drop in customers immediately after each entertainer posts there advertising content and leaves (one of the largest gains in GIO has been from the popular YouTube entertainer “PewdiePie” with around 4,000 new customers, more than 2/3 left after only a month.). This type of marketing is harmful as the product attracts many new customers, but fails to retain their interests, thus preventing a meaningful company-customer relationship.
Our second problem is that these temporary customers get a false sense of the product through these social media entertainers. GIO is a product that requires a lot of consumer knowledge to be enjoyed fully with other individuals, and most social media entertainers don't highlight this fact. This causes a gap between the customer and the product when they actually get to use it. To put it simply, by having entertainers who only lightly follow how the product is meant to be used, is bound to have an impact on those customers who watched them. This leads to a misunderstanding of how the product is meant to be used.
The final problem is the customers that stay past the initial wave usually leave over the course of the following months. There could be a multitude of reasons for this such as disinterest or a new game caught their attention, however, after doing research on the matter I have come to the firm conclusion that is most likely due to a lack of incentive. Customers need incentives to have something to motivate them to continue coming back, and with GIO almost every part of the product can be experienced by the customer immediately, while this would be fine for a single use product but, GIO benefits from multiple customers using their product multiple times. Many companies who face similar problems dealing with this by locking away features until customers have played enough to unlock them, keeping customers coming back to achieve what another customer may have unlocked. GIO holds a firm stance that any features that effect the product via use should not be held back, however, there are possible alternatives that could be looked at.
Solutions
If we are to fix this, we must first fix the issue with the marketing done by social media entertainers. The benefit of these entertainers is undeniable, however, it is my belief that in order to keep these entertainers as the main marketing pull, we need to have them more properly reflect how the product is used. This may turn away some of their viewers, however, by more accurately portraying the specifics of the product, customers will not be confused by the product when they actually use it and are more likely to stay around longer. Jao also reflects this by stating that there needs to be a balance between acquisition and retention (Jao). It is stated by Chuck Williams Management Student Edition that you need to keep in mind that presentation is important when working on a retention strategy (Williams, p.284). With this information in mind continuing on, community representatives should join with these entertainers to maintain that the focus stays on the product, and not just on the entertainers by providing the knowledge needed to properly use the product. It's imperative that potential customers see that the product can be appealing on its own, and how it should be used. A possible collaboration between the entertainers and community representatives, would be to have a competitions between the two groups to show the clear difference between knowledgeable and unknowledgeable use of the product. By doing this we could maintain a balance between entertainment and factual use of the product.
Next a new strategy needs to be set in place to maintain new customer interest. A simple way to achieve this is by creating an incentive program. A simple incentive can provide a daily opportunity to obtain something or more of it, would encourage customers to come back to the product more often, even if only just for the incentive. Hayley Pearce a writer for app lift, also wrote an article that coincides with my point, in which she mentions that engaging users is a key priority in customer retention (Pearce). Getting the customer in the door, may be just enough to keep them from leaving. Lamb, Charles, and Hair’s Student Marketing Edition also states the importance of retaining customer, providing information that having loyalty programs are a great way to keep the best customers (Lambs, Charles, Hair, p.346). For GIO the incentive could possibly be if a customer returns X amount of days, then he/she could receive a reward. I think this could be taken a step farther and used to create an in product economy (an in game currency), which could be used to unlock in product features (in game cosmetics). These usually are left behind pay walls (real monetary transactions) and customers who cannot afford multiple purchases would instead earn these purchases. This would create a system that rewards returning customers and more customers means an increase in customer base.
Earlier it was mentioned that some potential customers that may prefer a more casual (A style of gaming for games that are easy to pick up and play, ex: Candy Crush) approach to a product may be turned away, this can also be solved. GIO’s new extended dlc (downloadable content) Guns of Icarus Online Adventure Mode, could be promoted with these customers in mind. In adventure mode optimized strategies as well as coordination will not be as important as in the current product due to the lesser restrictions for knowledgeable use. If the main product is promoted separately then its dlc, two groups of consumers can be targeted and specifically promoted. This is also supported by Pearce’s article, through her statements on retargeting the consumer, to more specifically cater to their needs (Pearce).
Costs and Benefits
Changing marketing strategy will have multiple benefits such as increased consumer knowledge, an increased focus on finding the right customer, and an increase in customer base. The costs of the strategy will vary, depending on the amount of time needed to create and test a new customer rewards system, however, it will be significantly outweighed by the increase in customer base. In a short interview with (Cannot mention real name) an upcoming software engineer, I was explained to that the average salary in the industry was around S90,000 per year (cannot mention real name). He also stated that only one months’ worth of work with as few as one engineer could produce a new currency system (he considered it an overestimate). The payment of entertainers on the other hand will be significantly reduced as the amount of entertainers could be theoretically cut in half, as promotion of the main game can be managed by community representatives, while the new dlc is promoted by the entertainers.
Conclusion
It is important to consider changing strategy to retain more customers. By simply focusing efforts on maintaining a marketing plan which reflects how the product is properly used, and which creates an incentive that keeps customers. As always customer retention should always remain the focus of businesses, and I thank GIO and any others who review this plan for taking time to read and review.
Did a few edits to take out some names, of irl people, I did interviews with.
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I've really enjoyed reading all your comments and thoughts on this subject. I can't tell you how much I agree about YouTube promotions, I don't know what the monetary deals with the popular YouTuber's are but from every single video ever made it seems like a waste of money. I mean yes money is made off the sales but it's always the same, we hit peak player counts around 2K maybe more and then a month later were back down to around 500-900 then as time goes on we always get back to being around 49-200 players on and off peak hours. I've said this from day one that these YouTube promotion sales need to have a training day before they record their videos. We have such a large group of not only CA's who are willing to help a hand but Vet players who could help as well. It would only take a minimum of an hour or two of training. Stick three YouTuber's on a ship with a vet and teach them the basics. Yes these YouTuber's need to have an appealing video to their audience but almost every video I've seen does a terrible job of showing how to play because none of them are using anything in the right way. As Mr.Disaster pointed out many YouTuber's like Joe make comments that really affect a person judgement of the game, and that then leads to false ideas about the game. I only want to chime in on the YouTube promotion side of the conversation, and say that I do agree so far many of the videos made are terrible but I do believe it could work it just needs better execution and planning after all many of my friends inclunding myself found Guns of Icarus through a YouTuber. As for all other points made I see a lot of great ideas, I really enjoy the idea of making VIP a game mode. I think the Devs are doing a good job, yes some things lack but they are really busy trying to push out alliance while working on so many things at a time.
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Another major factor is the historical fact that every major influx of players was also preceded right before by one of the worst patches Muse could ever do.
Until about the last 6 months to a year, they'd run these big sales and bring a ton of people in when the game was horrifically broken. It was like Muse was purposely shooting themselves in the foot. I remember vividly because we'd be running competitive matches at the time and a sale/patch would hit that would break the game so bad Muse would be scrambling to fix it. Trouble was, the fixes always came too late. This made new players immediately think of Muse as an "inept" dev and went on to promote that GOIO was a perpetually broken game. You can't get people to revisit something so easily after they've been burned by it once.
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This expectation that vets are just conscripted CAs really gets under my skin, I'm willing to teach sure. It's what my clan is for.
But I DON'T teach the unwilling and I will not be nice to people not nice to me.
I mean look at these devs trying to teach Joe's angry army of morons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snAMl0YU-hU
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why I never became a CA. I'm invested here, but I'm not some GOIO civil servant. I teach those worth teaching.
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While I do agree with the idea that videos more accurately showcasing quality gameplay would be better than the confused drivel the youtubers put out, at the same time, nobody actually watches - for example - the SCS videos. They never even break 50 views.
There's a disconnect here between what we do with the competitive videos we have and what we say we want.
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If muse wants to keep doing the youtube sale, could they not organize a tournament with one youtuber per ship filled with vets. I could also make them be more competitive if they are against other youtubers and put more effort?
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Exactly. But muse won't do it. If anyone wants good to come from youtubers then it's your job to help
If everyone emailed the youtubers and invited them to a community tournament with vet players then some will come. If you really wanna make a difference then stop complaining and step up
We know how to set up tournaments and we have persuasive writers. Who's willing to try
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While I do agree with the idea that videos more accurately showcasing quality gameplay would be better than the confused drivel the youtubers put out, at the same time, nobody actually watches - for example - the SCS videos. They never even break 50 views.
There's a disconnect here between what we do with the competitive videos we have and what we say we want.
Part of the problem is the challenge of actually showcasing quality gameplay. How do you create a video that someone can watch and say "This is a skilled team"?
Watching from free-view where you see all ships at once, the pacing is very slow. Watching other e-sports, you can see how quickly people are flipping through different actions in order to pull off high-skill maneuvers. In GoIO piloting, it is really hard to tell as long as the 2 teams are somewhat evenly matched.
Watching from 1 ship perspective, you can see all of the cooldowns and damaged components, so technically you can see all of what is driving each action, which might give you more perspective into the skill involved, but then you are only looking at 1 ship. You don't have enough information to be entertained on a match level.
In a game where 16 people's individual minor decisions and actions have large scale repercussions on the match, but you only have the options of viewing the big picture or a small subset of individuals, how can you create a single video that shows off the skill and foresight implemented by good teams?
Most other esports that I can think of have a very low number of participants, and an easy way to view both the big picture and the minute actions simultaneously.
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Multiple camera views and/or really good casters.
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To address Redria's issues:
I think the core of a good quality GOI video would be the Voice chat. If a high functioning Vet team could make a video and a bit more chatty about their actions, people watching it would get a better idea of what the game is about. I am not talking about inane youtuber prattle here:
"I'm fixing the gun"
"we are really F***ing this guy up"
"Why is everything on fire?"
but rather the sort of thing that goes through a vet player's head
"Enemy tracers East of us"
"Squid spotted SSW"
"Don't mark lets be sneaky"
"Burning engines"
"I'll take top deck engines"
"Chem up he has a flamer"
"Get on right guns"
"Shoot out his engines"
"We are 2v1 all hands repair"
"Bring up left guns, we are making a stand"
"Tank the hull, ally ETA 15 seconds"
The down side is that such a video would not get that many views unless one of the bigger you tube channels linked to it or posed it as their own. It is a sort of catch 22 of this game, the community is too small to have you tube instructors like Day9, but the skill level for good play is so high that the average lets play youtuber is still completely out of their depth even if they only spend a few hours learning game mechanics.
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The down side is that such a video would not get that many views unless one of the bigger you tube channels linked to it or posed it as their own. It is a sort of catch 22 of this game, the community is too small to have you tube instructors like Day9, but the skill level for good play is so high that the average lets play youtuber is still completely out of their depth even if they only spend a few hours learning game mechanics.
I don't think any youtuber takes the time to learn mechanics, they go straight into it and record their first impression. Time = money.
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I've been told to stream gameplay literally hundreds of times while playing GOI. Tell me how to do it, and I'll do it. I am skilled, entertaining, witty, and foul-mouthed. I've taught countless new players how to not suck. I have a webcam, a good microphone, and a decent computer. Enable me and I will spread the gospel that is Guns of Icarus Online. I will be better than the garbage videos put out on YouTube.
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Do this: http://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/1262922-open-broadcaster-software
Use this http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux (has graphical user interface)
or this https://www.ffmpeg.org/ (doesn't have a graphical user interface, but can be more convinient for doing multiple things to one huge file, I guess)
to cut your videos.
If you want to be do some actual (and maybe flashy) editing, Adobe Premiere works, but Adobe is price and I am not experienced enough in video editing to give you good alternitives.
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Here's a brief intro to setting up OBS for streaming
https://youtu.be/ApZ0Wyo3B50
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trying to play well while stating the obvious is ridiculously annoying.
Because you have to decide what 1 thing you want to say when you have several factors in your head already.
I mean a single move is decided after considering several possible outcomes and deciding on what makes most gain and odds. Explaining that single action takes forever and by then you have to make another one.
At mid to low its all very obvious at hi lvl though that kind of commentary is completely unreasonable.
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Check out the YouTuber called TearOfGrace - especially from, em, like 6 months ago up to today. I like him a lot, and he does quite a good job editing the videos so they are (mostly) quite entertaining.
edit: This as an example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucOuej6ngs&list=PLRFpEtUmYzVKWdqItUdUXtf-JJn6f45sQ&index=15)
Also, get a fucking microphone and hardware to record speech as well and clear as possible - don't be a bastard like Angry-fucking-Joe, whose videos are yelling DYNAMICS ARE FOR PUSSIES.
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Judging
I don't think any youtuber takes the time to learn mechanics, they go straight into it and record their first impression. Time = money.
I think Angry Joe and the people Muse pay to advertise their game spend some time getting familiar with the game. However there is a vast hoard of YouTube Star Wannabes who do pointless first impression videos where they curse a lot while flying into mountains. This second group is the problem since their videos will bury anything respectable the community puts out due to Youtube's video recommendation system.
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JudgingI don't think any youtuber takes the time to learn mechanics, they go straight into it and record their first impression. Time = money.
I think Angry Joe and the people Muse pay to advertise their game spend some time getting familiar with the game. However there is a vast hoard of YouTube Star Wannabes who do pointless first impression videos where they curse a lot while flying into mountains. This second group is the problem since their videos will bury anything respectable the community puts out due to Youtube's video recommendation system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KF2rE8GbAk
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why I never became a CA. I'm invested here, but I'm not some GOIO civil servant. I teach those worth teaching.
/manhug Bryon
My brother!!
Seriously tho, back on topic. I really wish Muse had asked me to fill in on some of those youtuber games. I heard later they pretty much told everyone to lose and make the youtuber look good. Back then I just told a CA who told me about it that,"well its a good thing I wasn't invited. I'd have castrated them with an airship over live stream." Every youtube "celebrity" i've seen is just an angry little brat with too much bandwidth that strokes the cogpieces of every other angry little brat that plays games online. These people shouldn't be popular, they should be strapped to a chair and forced to watch an endless marathon of Barney and Friends or Teletubbies till they go crazy and develop a taste for human flesh. Then we can put them all in a big dome and watch them fight.
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Here's a brief intro to setting up OBS for streaming
https://youtu.be/ApZ0Wyo3B50
Cool, man, thanks for the primer. I've dove into this in the past couple hours and am tweaking things for smooth sailing, both on my computer, with the stream, and in the skies. If I can get it working well before tomorrow night, I'll stream after I watch the Republican Debate because I'm gonna be absolutely flooded with booze. Adds to the entertainment factor :D
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why I never became a CA. I'm invested here, but I'm not some GOIO civil servant. I teach those worth teaching.
/manhug Bryon
My brother!!
Seriously tho, back on topic. I really wish Muse had asked me to fill in on some of those youtuber games. I heard later they pretty much told everyone to lose and make the youtuber look good. Back then I just told a CA who told me about it that,"well its a good thing I wasn't invited. I'd have castrated them with an airship over live stream." Every youtube "celebrity" i've seen is just an angry little brat with too much bandwidth that strokes the cogpieces of every other angry little brat that plays games online. These people shouldn't be popular, they should be strapped to a chair and forced to watch an endless marathon of Barney and Friends or Teletubbies till they go crazy and develop a taste for human flesh. Then we can put them all in a big dome and watch them fight.
(https://i2.wp.com/gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Are-You-Not-Entertained-Gladiator.gif)
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why I never became a CA. I'm invested here, but I'm not some GOIO civil servant. I teach those worth teaching.
/manhug Bryon
My brother!!
For real
I give anyone who is obviously new on my ship basic instructions, if they respond to those well I will keep teaching them.
I liked that PBG video, watching him actually take the time and effort to figure out the mechanics, talk to his team etc. Even if it's not high level, it's still better than nothing.
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These people shouldn't be popular, they should be strapped to a chair and forced to watch an endless marathon of Barney and Friends or Teletubbies till they go crazy and develop a taste for human flesh. Then we can put them all in a big dome and watch them fight.
This is beautiful
Also, reminded me of this, how I see novice lobby vs vet lobby.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/movie_theater_layout/2.png)
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http://www.twitch.tv/atruejedi
I should be streaming tonight... so tell your friends if they wanna see The Best Captain Ever™ in action to tune in! The good news is that it's smooth and sounds good. The bad news is, because of all the power required to encode the damn thing, I can only play comfortably and Stream at 480p... so just pretend GOI was released for the Nintendo Wii. 8)
The debate is at 8:30 pm EST and should last until 10:30 pm EST. My ex girlfriend is coming over and drinking with me while watching it, so if I DON'T pop up promptly at 10:30... pretend (incorrectly) there's a good reason as to why.
Erm, apparently I can't tag my channel with Guns of Icarus Online... only Guns of Icarus or Guns of Icarus: Alliance. So I chose normal, old Guns of Icarus... I hope that's okay.
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Glad to hear you got it working better Jedi! 480p is alright, wish I could be there for the first official stream unfortunately I work till 11pm. I hope it goes well and I'll drop your link into the CA chat and share it with friends!
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WHERE'S THE WII PORT MUSE?
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WHERE'S THE WII PORT MUSE?
wii mote camera controls.... sounds kinda neat.
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Fly with mario cart wheel...I like it