Guns Of Icarus Online

Main => World => Topic started by: Arturo Sanchez on September 09, 2015, 01:27:22 am

Title: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Arturo Sanchez on September 09, 2015, 01:27:22 am
FYI tactics and strategies are different things.

A tactic is a mission to destroy a supply base using an armoured assault on a force ill prepared for it.

A strategy is destroy a supply base that is instrumental on maintaining the enemy front lines.

So if you were a factions commanders what tactics would you employ to rule the world and what kinds of counter measures do you think you would encounter?

inb4 merchantile likes flamers and mines. (mainly from that alliance video)
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: HamsterIV on September 09, 2015, 12:38:36 pm
Since the Angelean Republic is looking to capture prisoners and cargo I see their ships bringing blender/disable weapons. That way they can cripple a ship and force it to the ground rather than kill it in the high atmosphere. Prisoners are more valuable if they only had to survive a 5 foot fall instead of a 100 foot fall.

I see Ambush being one of the Angelean's favorite tactics. The major Angelean cities are underground so their pilots would be comfortable maneuvering in tight spaces. Standard tactics would involve lying in ambush in behind or under some piece of terrain along a major trading route. When a prospective target gets close enough the Angeleans would pounce with judicious use of helium and try to catch the target by surprise. Escorts would be destroyed or crippled in the initial attack. Followed by a more surgical take down of any airship containing valuable cargo or prisoners. One ship in a raiding fleet would be equipped with mines and tar to hinder pursuit should an ambush turn bad or a patrol show up an inopportune time.

Strategically the Republic's priority is to maintain its sovereignty against its more expansionist neighbors the Empire and the Barrony. It is in Republic's best interest to keep these factions in a constant state of war. It is conceivable that the Angeleans have a stockpile of captured ships from both sides that they use to run false flag attacks.

If invaded the Republic would use a Scorched Earth tactic similar to WW2 Russia. It is impossible for an invading army to live off the land in Angelea so keeping supplies from falling into enemy hands should be top priority. Any supplies the invaders try an import can be intercepted by raiders. This would force any invading army to split its force into many small garrisons to protect its supply lines. Once the invaders are over extended, Republic forces could be concentrate to wipe out these small garrisons.

Angelea's slave population could be abandoned without food in front of an invading army. The high minded Yeshans and Barony troops would feel obligated to feed the slaves especially since many of them would have been taken from their own populations. This would further exasperate the invader's supply situation.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 08:34:53 am
Since the Arashi Empire invented both the galleon and the pyra, and maybe even the goldfish, it can be deduced that they don't aim at ambushing the enemies, but engaging them with superior firepower, in fact, a combined fleet of multiple pyras and galleons could sustain a lot of raw damage while also dishing out as mush, if not even more.
The ships are perfectly in line with the Yeshan expansionistic thinking: big, bulky and imposing ship, that after eliminating enemy defenders, they themselves become an advanced armored (flying) outpost; as in fact they have this role as mobile fortresses also within the Yeshan border itself, acting as sentries.
Being the Empire situated in a very rocky and mountainous land, these ships surely are intended to fly at very high altitude during patrols and in case of attack, descend to the mountain passes to literally body block anyone that would be an enemy (the galleon in particular looks vary apt for this role.
The Yeshan favorite kind of battle tactics would be long and open engagements, where the sturdiness of their ship would be extremelyuseful and the little manouverability of the single vessel would be balanced by the combined firepower of the allies.
The favorite strategy would be to drown the enemy in the sheer amount of ships the are deployable, because, if you can have patrols all around the Empires border, having some more to deploy somewhere else wouldn't be a problem.

While this strategy and tactic would be effective against someone that have a similar approach to battle, against its neighboring countries, Yesha and Anglea, that rely on guerrilla tactics to defend their lands, it's not very effective as also the space available for battle either is too small for a large fleet engagement or is with such climate conditions that the fleet is forced to split in smaller groups.

To cut it short: the Empire attacks the same way it defends itself, with big fleets of big ships, that have an enormous firepower.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 11:49:06 am
i agree with you assessment of the yeshan empire (even though you said arashi empire once. ;) )
i suspect that in fleet engagements the yeshans would post up half the galleons with long range heavy weapons to cripple enemy formations and allow their goldfish (as you correctly identified is a yeshan ship) to maneuver into position and disable the larger ships, either from ambush or after some skirmishing. Then the brawler galleons drive straight into the battle line and just start blasting  after the vanguard of pyramidions had punched a sizable enough hole, or sown the requisite amount of chaos.
that's how i imagine the yeshans themselves would imagine a perfect battle. also to remember that very few ships could hope to disengage from such an action, the goldfish are far too nimble to be shaken off by most enemy armies, so any heavy ships brought would likely be captured or destroyed in pursuing actions, and some light ones very likely as well.
the yeshans have HUUUUGE dockyards, and so have by a significant margin, as i understand it, the most powerful fleet in terms of numbers. another thing that we rarely discuss is the background of the yeshan empire lends itself to having very talented commanders taught by very clever teachers. the meritocratic attitude would likely add to their advantage over a aristocratic nation like the baronies. bad generals don't get put in command of large fleets because of what family they are from. (i don't think this is AS bad a problem as i'm making it out to be, as i might get into below, but if not, in another post i will)

i like a lot how you bridged the cramped quarters of the anglean (if only mostly) underground cities through the skill of very precise flying to hiding from ambush. i always assumed that the angleans would have hidden behind mountains, or in clouds or something, but hiding on the ground, i had not thought of. they might also hide in any suitably large tunnels out of which no one would imagine a ship could easily maneuver, but lo and behold you are getting ambushed.
the forums have made a huge to-do about the angleans taking captives, mostly based on someone saying they were like the vikings (kind of) once. everyone got excited talking about thralls and it kind of got away from us. later the devs came back and were like... yeah not like vikings REALLY. the angleans are a tough and hardy people but ultimately a republic, and ultimately the smartest (in terms of archeotech at least) people around, they dont NEED anyone else. capturing people and letting them hang around their super special magic tech (which is everywhere, remember) and then potentially losing them to escape would be worse than an anglean citizen themselves, who have some loyalty to the republic to prevent them from spilling the secrets they might know. compunctions a captured yeshan would not have (especially if they escaped back to the empire)
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 01:42:09 pm
( Only now that you made me notice, I found my error in using names :P)

NOW! Onto my thoughts about another faction!
The Order of Chaladon

Chaladonians are not known to be either a very raid-loving, attack-provoking, mercenary-hiring faction, rather, as merchants.

They were presented by Muse to have a cultural behavior like colonial India, but with more ecology and less multi-religious nonsense. Chaladon is an island with steep coasts, separated from the mainland by a sea 2-3 times larger than the Chill Sea, it's the most self sufficient region in the entire world, as it's the only place where there is a vegetal life capable of producing fruits and crops. Their belief is that nature is sacred and must not damaged. For now, it hasn't been presented any downside to being a chaladonian, there is a King as head of government, and there is a semi-utopian situation.

They were the last region of the World to be found via airship but eventually, probably due to the fact that their territory has remained mostly intact since THE War, they developed a kind of ship that has become very popular for "blitzkriegs": the Squid, that sports many unique characteristics that suggests that it was not merely a reverse-engineered ship, but that was an entirely new model invented from scratch.
The other ship presumed to be invented by Chaladon is the Mobula: first being a common merchant air-barge, by the will of the daughter of a nobleman, it was refitted to have a very different design, that later was converted to be combat-ready.

Chaladonian tactics are mainly defensive, but make large use of every quality of their ship: the fast and nimble squids are very capable of ambush any ship coming from overseas, (even more if we take into account that the airships must traverse a very BIG sea, with random storms), moving up, down and around cliffs. A small fleet of well piloted squids could easily disable many ships, making them fall to their death into the sea. Or even approach them and start boarding actions.
While Mobulas, on the other hand, are far less fast and maneuverable, yet they can increase and decrease their height extremely fast, making them ships very able to use "peek-a-boo" tactics to hide behind the coastal cliffs and do surprise attacks. Being very frail, but capable of a forward fire power comparable only to the one of a spire, they mainly sport a long-range setup, where are very present deadly guns like the Mercury field guns and Hades light cannons; a full volley from a flotilla of mobulas equipped with such a setup could melt the armor and destroy the hull of almost any ship in a matter of seconds.
Probably attack tactics would rely a lot on the combination between Squids and Mobulas, where the first disable enemy vessels that may harm the mobulas, while the former snipe them from afar.

-A problem about Chaladonians is that they prefer looks above functionality in some cases, the mobula, a ship they are very proud of, has 4/5 gunslots slightly offset taking away a bit of its forward fire power possibilities and making so that "special guns" like the good ol' Merc can't shoot more than one at a time, the usually use lotus shaped formations, that while being surrounded could be a good idea, they are pure trash when attacking, the wheel of the Squid is offset without any particular reason, making you rely on crew communications to know exactly what''s on your blind side- a mercenary guard talking about Chaladon air forces

Given the average behavior of a chaladonian citizen, the most probable attack strategy would be,
"Invade-Eliminate Defense Forces-Befriend Population" so that they wouldn't have to care about eventual uprisings from the locals and may even give them a strong beachhead in

Still, this is only speculation, since the Order has never invaded any other country, nor any other has tried to invade Chaladon, being it situated between the strong armies of the Baronies and in the dangerous Merchant's Guild

To be noted is that, unlike the Yeshan Empire, neither of the countries near Chaladon are hostile towards it, as its vegetables are highly profitable and appreciated both in the Fjordlands and in the Guild, being them unique and not produced anywhere else.

Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 03:24:03 pm
again, i love that you are engaging with the lore a lot, but again a few things:
the mobula is a merchantile guild ship, so most of what you get from trying to square that circle is weird, but ultimately not a problem, because your assessment of what the mobula is and means sounds good to me!
some stuff we know about chaledon that affects your intuitions a bit: the creation of the first airships by chaledonians themselves and their isolationist/utopian attitudes. i will address them in that order, for simplicity's sake
the first airship on chaledon was a baronies vessel that arrived there and it changed EVERYTHING. the chaledonians had a scientificly sophisticated culture, but just hadnt seen THAT before. one man reverse engineered the ship while the crew was asleep and the next day was able to begin correctly recreating the ship. for this feat of ingenuity, he was knighted. since that day they have quickly turned some of their sophisticated scientific institutions to the creation and refinement of airships, since then many have appeared, one is the squid.
their fleet is largely their buffer from invasion, much like the RAF in WW2.  you cant sail to or from Chaledon safely, however so airships are even MORE important. we have seen a few ships, and they all seem to be variously sized interceptor kinds of ships. the duty of the fleet is to maintain control over the skies, rather than attacking static targets.
the utopia:
the land of the isle of chaledon is so undamaged by the great ecological destruction of the mainland that they DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE. when they started flying their own ships and started bringing news back from the mainland the Chaledonians were horrified at the callous destruction of the precious natural world. this outrage fuels their expansionistic attitude.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 03:28:35 pm
also important to note is thtat the world isnt TOTTALY destroyed, the world is recovering, if slowly. there are crops being grown in teh baronies, they grow grains and cereals and the like as well as cold climate root vegetables as well, very likely. they even have honey bees! (chaledon has some kind of bee, but it isn't the kind that yo can get honey from apparently) the yeshans have rice plantations and teh like as well. teh world isnt so bad anymore, and is recovering even in some places.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 03:57:39 pm

This faction is at the edge of death, the climate is harsh, the resources are few, their cities are a nightmare to reach, they are surrounded by pre-war technology both above and under ground, they are stubbor, strong, adaptable and everyone around them want them dead.
NO, they are not the Angleans, they are... The Arashi!

A ragtag of tribes and ships, the Arashi live in the desert that bears their name, for the fact that they are its only inhabitants!
Blocked to the north and to the west by the huge Yeshan fleets, and to the east by the Guild's mercenaries, in the Arashi wasteland is kill and scavenge or be killed and scavenged.
You know the description of the elite {level 45} engineer, "could repair a ship from scratch using only kitchen tools"? Well, the Arashi are that kind of people.
Taking as example the basic airship technology they built from scratch the Junker vessel, from, you guessed it, junk.
The Junker is a multirole vessel, capable of being either scout, attacker and tank, they are deadly in the hands of veteran crews. The Junker only lacks aft guns, and having two per side plus a front one, it is very unlikely that without planning an ambush you could get behind one of them.
A little group of these ships could easily wage guerrilla warfare for a very extended period of time.
The attack tactics that Arashi fleets could use are many: frontal assaults, flyby attacks, etc.
The Junker, while being the more used and most easily produced ship of Yesha, is not the only one that they use.

If an Arashi pillager has enough money they can buy from the Guild a good new vessel, new weapons, and even commodities.

In terms of tactics the Arashi rely mainly of the people's capability and will to survive, and could use the same tactics for both attack and defense.

In terms of strategy, they would lose almost immediately if they were to engage an all out war, since they are few, not very rich and have few resources. But their capability in raiding and sneaking past border guards makes them one of the most dangerous factions to wage guerrilla wars against.

-They pillage our villages at the eastern borders, they raid our merchants traveling to the Guild territories and Guild's merchants traveling towards ours, they behave like rats, they attack in groups, kill what they can, and then, after the battle is over, they come down from the skies like carrion birds to pillage whatever they can, wasn't for the sandstorms protecting them, the Empire would have killed them all a long time ago.- Zhang Shinkai, airship captain, southern border guard
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 04:03:05 pm
Replying to Helios, yes, I know quite a few things you said, but since we are talking tactics and strategies here, I tried to cut a bit the lore.
And about the interceptor ships of Chaladon, a new one will be released with the Alliance DLC, the Mogante {hope I got the name right} that relies on broadsides and can carry even heavy guns.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 05:01:32 pm
the magnate, if that is what yo are thinking of, is a merchantile guild ship as well
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 05:08:21 pm

Is the Crusader a ship from the Baronies? The design would suggest so...
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 05:40:13 pm
i adore the arashi, but thats probably because of how lovingly and often i have read Dune.

i imagined that the arashi's main military assets were these: people, tech, land

the human advantage: as you mentioned, the people are tough as a coffin nail, every single one of them down to the oldest grandmother or the youngest granddaughter. they live on the edge of death at all times and that has distilled in them a diligence and discipline that is unrivaled in even the vast armies of the yeshan empire. they have found and even understood the amazing archeo-tech of the old world and have reproduced some of its wonders
the tech advantage: the inhospitabe nature of the land ensured that the fallen behemoths of the old world lay undisturbed untill a people resilient enough to live in teh forbidding deserts arrived. as such they (similarly to the angleans in many ways for the same reason) have found tech in much better repair, and therefore much easier to understand. the more they understood, the more the could repair, the more they learned.
the land advantage: this is where it all comes together. the land is SO harsh adn the arashi know it SO well and it has sharpened them to such a keen edge that any given arashi is a warrior of the highest caliber even before they put them through the rigors of military training. it has also preserved the tech that has now brought the arashi, though small in number, onto the playing field with much larger (softer, weaker, lazier) nations.
i always imagined that any invasion of arashi territory would be either harried by ambushes of fireteams of people on the ground. the desert is a large and flat featureless place. you can bet there are no better sharpshooters in the whole place. we know it is no easy thing to shoot a massive galleon at a kilometer and a half, a five man team would be all but invisible even standing on teh open desert. a dozen five man teams covered by sand colored blankets disguised as dunes could easily destroy an enemy patrol, or a retaliatory expedition from the merchant fleets or a yehsan border governor, and never be seen except by the few seriously wounded survivors who survived the crashes of their mighty ships, lying bleeding and prostrate on the sands.
some ships of the arashi's we know about, and what it says about the culture and tactics they use:
luckily, the arashi are one of the three factions that are already in the alliance mode prototype in the dev app, so we know a little bit more about them than the others we have discussed.
their boss ship is called the raider, and its a sleek long arrowhead of a ship with a massive lazer beam weapon on the nose (as of 1.4.5) which is likely to have been stolen either in idea or in whole from a merchantile ship (as that is where the apollo lens is created. it might be that in its final iteration it has a totally different weapon, but its likely to be brutal whatever it is!)  its threatening profile weapons and nose gun is reminiscent of a junker in that way, but i havnt seen it really hustle, so i dont know how fast or maneuverable it is.
the fleet hunter is a sniper ship, in one version with three long range weapons facing forward, it was not something you could ignore at range. sadly it was hard to approach due to the screening forces of...
the raider! its basically a sniper ships worst nightmare: tough, intimate armament, ram-happy. these little terrors are designed for close combat in mind. they disrupt, disable and ultimately kill ships who would rather be in a sniper duel with the fleet hunters.


these ships and the cultural importance on individual strength and collective discipline leads in my imagination to a long range sniping skill that is unparalleled and used against larger forces to cripple adn destroy them before they can return coordinated fire. if they ever could, they ground troops can disappear into the shifting sands. if an enemy is so strong this wont be enough the fleet is these two philosophies in spades: intimate ram/board raiders supported by crack sharpshooting from small fleet hunters. boarding actions i imagine are decisively in the favor the the arashi, both because they get to decide the terms of the engagement, and because their people train to kill from the moment they can walk.

one thing, the junker isnt a yeshan ship stolen by the arashi, they designed it themselves and build them themselves. the reason they dont look 'finished' is because they dont use more resources to build a thing than it absolutely needs.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 05:41:27 pm
yes, the crusader is a baronies ship. the corsair is anglean, actually its the first anglean ship we have seen, as they dont have a ship represented in the game currently
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 05:51:36 pm

one thing, the junker isnt a yeshan ship stolen by the arashi, they designed it themselves and build them themselves. the reason they dont look 'finished' is because they dont use more resources to build a thing than it absolutely needs.

Seeing you saying this, a question comes to my mind
This is annoying
But I think that I said it correctly "The Junker, made with war hevea that could find, was made 100% by the arashi people
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 05:52:17 pm
yes, the crusader is a baronies ship. the corsair is anglean, actually its the first anglean ship we have seen, as they dont have a ship represented in the game currently

So, if you pre-order the DLC, does it make you able to play it?
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 06:05:22 pm
Now, Mr. Helios, being you very documented about the lore and the average behaviour of the people and the states  of the world of Guns Of Icarus, would you mind talking about either the Baronies or the Guild?
Hell, even both if you want!
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Carn on February 07, 2016, 06:20:58 pm
I see the Republic as savage, cruel, and brutally efficient. My type of people.  It should be noted that they have two neighbors who are heavy expansionists, and they hold them off. Like the Chaladon, they are not on the same landmass, and have harsh seas as a natural border.  Any invaders would first have to get past that, then there's the land itself.  So cold, the Angleans live mostly underground.  They likely have a technological marvel that can create food, and they could likely seal themselves off from the surface.

The tactics I think they would use would be planned ambushes and shock and awe. If they can't take it back in a raid, they make sure others can't use it.  They don't wait in an area hoping some sod comes along, they are cold and calculating.

For strategy, I believe that they would employ blindingly fast, and precise strikes. I see them favoring Squids, Junkers, and Pyramidions.  The Squids forray out and distract the enemy, then the Pyramidions arrive, tearing through them with front guns and ramming, and if anything is still flying by that point the Junkers are there to mop things up.

Quick, brutal, efficient, and calculated.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 07, 2016, 06:41:55 pm
Sorry to notify you Mr. Carnage, but the second (first even?) reply to this topic was about the good old Anglean Republic.
Still, your description serves well the purpose of representing the Angleans as being the ones who HUNT, and not the ones that ARE HUNTED.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Carn on February 07, 2016, 07:57:15 pm
I know the thread dude, these are open to interpretation and I was giving mine.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 08:42:31 pm
nobody in their right mind would attempt to invade the anglean homeland, its WAY too damn cold, and everyone there is either teched up to the eyes or tough as nails, or both. whether or not the cities are entirely or only partially underground is anyone's guess, but in my headcannon its like three quarters or more underground with some military folks up top to guard the openings and to maintain the airfleet which would likely be above ground, if only because the dockyards would take a lot of space and digging out that much space would be hard! ntimpossible, but unneccicary and a lot of work...
teh devs descibed anglea as 'tech rich and resource poor' so they use their awesome tech to give them the edge in attacking and stealing the resources they need.

there has been a TON of excitment abotu the angleans taking slaves or thralls (slaves) or prisoners (slaves, or ransom?) and i dont think it's right. first of all, the angleans are not flush with food it doesnt seem like a worth while endeavor, getting more mouths to feed. second of all the angleans are the most technologically advanced people in teh place, who could they possibly want to capture that knows more than they already do? MAYBE the chaledonians who have made some forays into tech the ancients never did, or didnt carry over, but not in a HUGE scale.

we also know the angleans have found, or reverse engineered or engineered automatons. so in terms of unskilled labor, they have that covered (and they dont have to feed them woo!)  given all this, as teh toolbox informs us, thre is no word in anglean for 'happy' the closest translation is 'without suffering.'  they hae hard lives full of battle and theft and hunger and work, but it is WAy worse for those who they attack.

their attacks are likely designed to minimise casualties, as they cant really afford to replace broken parts or damaged people. fast, without warning, gone with the goods as fast as possible.

one angle we havnt talked about is the possibility of seige warfare: woudl the angleans even bother? theres a LOT of resources in cities, but they are hard to get into. worth it? who knows?
we shoudl probably discuss cities and seiges somewhere else though, but im interested to see waht you guys think about it!
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 09:03:55 pm
i imagine teh merchantile guild to be less a navy as much as escort ships and mercenaries

their primary goal is to make a lot of cash, adn protect the cash they got, so they are primarily a escort force for the merchant vessels, or even merchant vessels refitted to be military ones. they thrive on a show of force, their bright yellow pennants clearly mark them as part of the largest 'don't fuck with us if you don't want to get fucked' force in the world we know of. a potential ambusher might look at that and think '... maybe il get the next one that comes by...'
the golden banners also show who they are, and advertise them to prospective clients, as well as announcing the arrival of new goods with STYLE! also i wouldn't doubt they hire out as mercenaries, where good performance would recommend them to anyone with money who might think that they were worth the money after balking at first at their outrageous cost.
they also obscure the shape fo the ship somewhat, and since being ambushed is kind their jam, its nice that a few of the ambushers shots might go harmlessly through a cloth than destroy a balloon. 

now there is a time and a place where the fleet might be taking action on larger scales than this: invasions of reseurce rich areas, or retributive attacks on strongholds of those who would dare to oppose them. when the risk is worth the reward, either in material or reputation, then there's no reason not to act. the prologue video describes them as 'the ruthless operators of the mercantile guild' after all!

they have had in the past pretty protracted battles with the arashi, and made pretty bitter enemies with them, but everyone else (except the angleans very likely, for similar reasons) it seems like is happy to let their caravans move back and forth around the world. these caravans are not the only trade around for sure, but a pretty big player in most every province.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 07, 2016, 09:14:14 pm
i imagine the fjordlanders line their looong ships up and let lose huuuuge broadsides in bigger battles, while most of the time they are just sort of hanging out. the spire is a fjordlander ship, but its the only one we have seen that is tall, all the rest are long and sleek. i imagine its more of a watch tower sort of thing, hiding or blocking off passes between mountains.
their tag line in the prologue is 'forgotten nobility' so i kind of imagine them like the early days of musket warfare, where everyone is in big lines of people in a field and then everyone shoots the crap out of each other.

that, but with huge ships! the fjordlanders make a big line (in 3d, it might be more like a wall, depending on the terrain) and then a'blasting they will go!

we dont know for sure a lot about them, sadly, but hopefully soon we will!

i imagine this line battle strategy would work pretty well as they expand out of the mountains. the flatter the land, the better their lpong range broadsides will work. its likely they would be very comfortable in siege warfare, given that a static battle line would be to their advantage more than some of the more chaos of battle exploiting forces we have discussed.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: C r o w on February 08, 2016, 08:21:02 am
Ah, the baronies, probably the faction that I'll join in Alliance mode.

Before the Great War the Fjordlands, since their geographic shape, the fjords were used as strongholds and citadels for one of the ancient faction, and in fact was a placed where troops were gathered and generals dispatched orders.
Every lineage of nobility of the current Fjord Barons comes from one of the Great Generals of the GW (Great War). After The End the generals and high ranking officers decided to keep their soldiers and the people residing there together and thus was born this semi-feudal government. Every nobleman is half a politician and half a warrior, and most of them are brought up with the objective in mind to raise them to be war-commanders like their ancestors. The descendants of the soldiers and of the civilians of the GW Age, having become used to putting their trust into the barons, generation after generation, have grown very accustomed to this kind of government: the Baron (Lord) trusts the the soldiers to obey his orders and to fight well and the civilians to work and keep the state going.
The soldiers trust the Baron to give them good orders and to guide them to victory and fight for the civilians as they also have families among them. The civilians trust in both the Lord and the soldiers to protect them and keep them safe from raids and assaults.
The only known ships from the Baronies are two: the brawler-killer ship Crusader and the defense-glass cannon Spire.

The Spire is very well known both among trespassers fighting against it and by the border guards who use them.
It was once said -"Its hull and armor are made of paper-thin metal, hopes and dreams, but mostly hopes."-, meaning that it couldn't be more fragile or else it would fall apart by simply taking off.
While also it is not a fast ship, no one can engage it face-to-face and come out of the fight unscathed.
The Spires are very tall, as once they were air towers, but now they are capable of movement, and it appears very compact both if seen from the side and from the front. This shape helps this vessel in hiding in the deep fjords, where a well planned ambush could ruin anyone's day.

The Crusader, on the other hand, is a heavy vessel, that has no easily targetable balloon, has a very long hulls and has enough firepower to rightly answer to a port-side attack by a galleon. It carries multiple heavy and light weapons, all having an offset positioning, making them able to target forward and side targets.
The Crusader also has a very protruding frontal armored section, that suggests that the ship is also a valiant rammer.

Other northerners, like the Angleans, are trained since children to behave like raiders, soldiers and infiltrators and by the time they become adults everyone, even the most average person, behave like they are part of an elite corp: quick, brutal and efficient.

The fjordlanders, on the other hand behave more like a regular army: there's the general, that has the Fjord Baron as its current representative, everyone follow the general's orders they all more or less trust each other, the soldiers do the actual fighting and the civilians are the logistic asset.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on February 08, 2016, 02:36:28 pm
the angleans are trained from young ages to be soldiers, its true, but if they fail they dont NECESSARILY die. if an arashi makes a mistake, it usually kills them (not saying their neighbors kill them, the desert does) so it leads them to be much more lethal and pragmatic, rather than the theatrical warfare that serves the angleans. the arashi spend almost 0 time on anything but survival, or survival derivatives, because death is everywehre
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: James Campbell on March 19, 2016, 03:39:19 pm
I always saw the Mercantile as a very dystopian style society, very akin to Dishonoured but more Dieselpunk than Steam.

this is due to the fact that they are internally representing their own people, and in turn are isolated, but very wealthy. I always envisioned them as the "British Empire" of the land, but a bit more focused on wealth, with internal banking clans and the like. In terms of fighting, they'd hire privateers and mercenaries to do the main heavy work, while they'd maintain a sort of Royal Gaurds to defend the major players, and occasionally get into a skirmish or send a message
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on March 20, 2016, 05:09:57 pm
i know that the mg hire themselves out as mercenaries and sell ships, because, after all, war is good for business, if you are in the business of war. the MG are in every business. they make a lot of money in peace and in war.

we know that the mercantile elite have sort of a subdued opulence, modesty is at least payed lip service. the whole nation is called the guild, so its unclear if everyone is involved in manufacturing and traveling around or in the support activities required to maintain that effort. if everyone has a stake in this endeavor, they might not be that destitute on the bottom. we know that the free market can, and usually is, not all that compassionate, but in a city with a huge demand for goods and services and having survived a huge plague not TOO long ago, there might be labor shortages in such a bull market. if the MG is as constantly at war as we might assume, especially if they are hiring out as mercenaries, there might be a pretty simple method out of despondent poverty: enlisting. in such a volatile world, its not unbelievable that the guild would be constantly looking for more folks to go do dangerous jobs, and given the community-first attitude that hold over from the days of the cure searching, i'm sure there would be no trouble in finding volunteers looking for fortune, and some would certainly find it. this avenue to fortune would create a huge pool of potential mercenary sailors, their support personnel who make a healthy living enabling them: ship builders, munitions factory workers, etc.
society could be awful in general, but the people we are playing as, if we play for the MG, they are likely fortune hunters or grizzled veteran traders, who have seen it all and survived. they have seen every kind of war, against every enemy: raiders, pirates and probably even the formal militaries of more than a few of the factions.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Jamini on March 29, 2016, 02:41:58 pm
Quote from: Mercantile Guild Page
The Great war caused an upheaval of climate change where the world entered a period of disorder. No only were nations stripped to ruins but the environment was also brought to its knees. As living standards dropped, disease became common and struck hardest in the pocket of land now called The Vastness, current home of the Mercantile Guild.

A merchant of the guild is always a composed individual, adorned in the richest but simple cuts of fabric with only some jewelry--like a single shining star in an otherwise black night. A guild merchant moves carefully, speaks meticulously, and is never boisterous like their local town market counterparts. This is because a guild merchant never forgets how he came to be, how his ancestors afforded him this life of abundance. The Blight struck The Vastness the hardest and many thousands died. The early merchants realized they needed to look towards the outside world for help, a cure that constantly slips between their fingers and is carried by the winds. The same wind that carries the dust is thought to have brought the Blight to their people.

The Guild has much to offer, but is never satisfied. There is always more to gain and there is always someone who has it.

Nothing will slip through their grasp

Looking at the Mercantile Guild, they are foremost Merchants and Entrepreneurs.

Of any other faction, they are the most likely to have massive caravans bound for other countries from which they need to protect from raiders (especially the Arashi, who border them). Guild lands are large, empty, and mostly flat, which leads to the development of the predominantly long-range sniper platform Mobula.

The Guild is likely one of the factions least interested in waging outright offensive wars. Their diminished population and reliance on other factions for trade and survival would disincline them to direct conflict, and their true enemy (the Arashi) do not have a standing army. Much of their military assets would be caravan guards, arms distribution, and mercenaries units that sell their goods and services to other factions.

Guild Mercenaries would act much like their signature ship in a conflict, hanging around the edge of a conflict to disable and pick off enemies at long range and evading close range encounters. This not only would allow them to be a very effective compliment to the groups that hire them should they run heavier ships with more maneuverability (and thus, ability to protect flanks) but allow Guild Mercs to more easily disengage if a battle turns sour.

The Guild also very likely incorporates ships from other factions into their own fleets. Particularly for setting up fortified trade posts or defending their own land from large-scale assaults. Their standing fleet would likely be one of the weaker fleets(Outgunned by the Yeshan, Barony, and Angelean fleets), but their logistics would be unmatched and no matter who they faced they would almost certainly have an third player as a military ally to supplement their fleet.(Willing or coerced, depending on the exact situation).

-Army of mostly Caravan guards and Mercenaries loyal to the guild, few enemies outside of the Arashi
-Prefer long range ships/sniping due to terrain, favored gunship, and supporting role in conflicts
-Most likely faction to incorporate ships from other factions
-Weak military, but lots of hooks/favors to pull unrelated allies in to protect their assets. Plenty of money for bribery.
-Unmatched Logistics, world-wide trade network.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on March 31, 2016, 03:22:58 pm
in general, i agree.

in specifics i think there are a couple assumptions that are incorrect, namely that the population numbers are still recovering from teh epidemic. i think that the main effect of the grey wasting, or whatever it was called, is the cultural affects you described of some level of modesty and humility in the face of the mountain of dead countrymen who let them get where they are today. 

in terms of battle ships, from the mobula as well as the alliance ship the magnate who is also of MG design, we can see that the MG navy is designed for overwhelming force. the mobula as we currently see it almost exclusively is a long range disabler ships, but remember that in other configurations it could be a incredibly versatile 'anything' ship. its one constant feature is that it has a LOT of firepower put all up front. the magnate is maneuverable but largely designed for vicious broadsides, with two light guns and a heavy gun easily able to be brought to bear.

my theory is that the MG hope that their flamboyant golden-yellow heraldry and their powerful first strike capabilities would disincentivise attacking any trade convoy protected under the aegis of the MG.

it also makes them valuable as mercs: such a powerful first strike both minimizes casualties for whatever side hired them. good for the employer, good for the employee: the ruthless operators of the mercantile guild
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Jamini on April 01, 2016, 11:03:45 am
Debilitating diseases tend to have population impacts for generations, and it's outright stated that the MG were hit the hardest by the grey wasting. The primary guild territory is called "The Vastness" even to this day, explicitly implying that much of the land they hold is empty and sparsely populated.

Compared to the other heavy ships from alliance, stating that the Managate is designed for "Overwhelming firepower" is a bit disingenuous. Most ships, except the goldfish, featuring a heavy weapon have at least one light weapon they can bring to bear alongside it. I wouldn't say it has disproportionate firepower compared to them, if anything it's a lighter "heavy" ship.

That said, you are right. The MG sees to prefer to frontload their damage potential at the expense of durability. The Mobula (was) fairly fragile and slow in close quarters, but very dangerous if it could bring it's forward facing guns to play. The Magnate seems the same with high damage primary arcs, but with a relatively fragile hull.

my theory is that the MG hope that their flamboyant golden-yellow heraldry and their powerful first strike capabilities would disincentivise attacking any trade convoy protected under the aegis of the MG.

That would make sense for caravan guards/escort ships. I suspect MG-supported mercs would act differently however.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on April 01, 2016, 01:55:44 pm
no other ship in alliance has a trifecta with a heavy gun except the magnate, so  felt like that counted as overwhelming firepower. its mobility and small blind spots make it ideal in counter ambush situations

the yeshan galleon is of course the heaviest loaded out ship in terms of a ship of the line, but its not a ship that would be very useful in an ambush. the yeshans are expansionists: they push forward with overwhelming numbers and strength, with hug capitol ships like the galleon and smaller support ships to guard their blind spots and chase down fleeing enemies.

Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Silver Corsair on June 12, 2016, 02:01:44 am
I see the Angleans as skilled in tight spaces but with more practice in attacking than ambushes. Their main objective is to get supplies and get out without any technology getting compromised. Ships appear quickly, disabling the opposing ships and boarding. Soldiers would repel if the town was weak with no reinforcements. All threats are neutralized but a massacre is avoided. Slaves are taken rarely.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on June 13, 2016, 12:55:23 pm
there are no Yeshan designs in the junker; it's 100% Arashi.

the Yeshans built a lot of the ships we play in skirmish: the goldfish, pyramidion, galleon. these ships together make a incredibly dangerous battle-fleet: hard hitting heavy weapons with pyras punching holes in the enemies' battle line and causing openings for goldfish to exploit and chase down retreating ships and bring them down or disable them.
the Arashi built the junker, a reactive ship designed to survive the harsh Arashi sandstorms and defending the desert strongholds. we havn't seen their other ships except the fleets in skirmish, but I imagine that the Arashi are unusual in that they could actually have a infantry support of the airships. they are the only ones tough and resourceful enough to support infantry movement through the terrible deserts. the Yeshans are clever but rely on their huge dockyards and navy to move their armies around. the fleet we see in alliance (which you can play if you play if you preorder the game) has long range sniper ships and short range snub-nosed, tough, short combat ramming ships.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Huskarr on June 14, 2016, 03:18:14 am
Where's your evidence of the fish being Yeshan? The fish is the only ship I don't know where it's from. Junker is Arashi, Pyramide and Galleon are Yeshan. Spire and mob are Baronies. Squid is ChalladonIan.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Silver Corsair on June 14, 2016, 11:33:39 am
I have heard that the mob was mercantile. The goldfish looks too general to be from a specific faction.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: ShadedExalt on June 14, 2016, 01:49:05 pm
I have heard that the mob was mercantile. The goldfish looks too general to be from a specific faction.

Not sure about Goldfish but I know that the Mobula is a design from the Guild in response to a request from a Baronie princess for an airship you can see the stars from and a whoooooooole lot of money.
Title: Re: Faction tactics and strategies and preferred loadouts
Post by: Helios. on June 16, 2016, 11:55:22 am
the goldfish is very stylistically similar to the drawings of the yeshan buildings. also, the lanterns and swooping colored fins look very chinese, which is the cultural DNA of the yeshan visual style.