Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => World => Topic started by: Wazulu on April 14, 2013, 04:41:18 pm
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Well, looking at the territories map, there's a great big No Man's land in the middle, with Anvala dead centre inside it. it's clearly contested territory, with The Baronies to the East, Angleans to the North, Yesha to the South West. Everybody wants it for their gunners, fertile land and as a territorial foothold to other regions. Also, this area links all of the major East-West trade routes, as I doubt the Yeshans really want to head through the Arashi League, and so in that point any faction that controls the area can control the main supply line. Hinder the Yeshan economy, starve the Angleans, isolate Chaladon.
But, nobody can touch it. Trying to attack it would overstretch each faction and leave them weak to attack from other factions who were biding their time. In most rational situations I foresee three-front wars for all the adjacent factions to Anvala. The only way to take it would be if another faction agreed to let you have it, but it's so valuable that an agreement such as that is highly improbable.
There are also some other points- the Yeshans can't attack easily as other factions due to the Wastes that would hinder land invasion. Then again, they could just land troops past it and claim an FOB.
I'm taking this in a lore perspective, rather than pushing it up for Adventure mode, as we don't have much physical current lore, as opposed to the original Icarus lore. I thought a nice idea, considering the extent of the community's love for Anvala, would be considering to set it up as an independent City which players could align to. I'm pretty sure people will base themselves out of it regardless. Feel free to pick apart my political summary of the area, as I've seen some people ask why nobody has laid waste to it.
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Ill have to stare at the map for awhile, and make up a few attack theories and let Charon counter point them with some marine logic, but I believe your initial assessment serves.
Now we have to ask ourselves, from this fictional standpoint, what kind of provisions or alliances have been made that keep the nation independent? Does it act like a geneva or Swedish neutrality?
Has it been so long a neutral state that to violate its territory is considered taboo?
Is its military capability so great that just the act of taking the city would just lead to the mutual destruction of both the city and the enemy attacking army?
Is it a fruitless fortification, it's only function to act as a trade hub, and thus be completely dependent on trade for its own resources, making its conquest a resource burden on the nation that acquires it?
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It houses the Burning Skies, and Yiski and I have laid claim to it. Woe to those who oppose us.
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Ill have to stare at the map for awhile, and make up a few attack theories and let Charon counter point them with some marine logic, but I believe your initial assessment serves.
I haven't done an in-depth assessment on the practicality of invading from each faction, by air or land. In fact, we don't even know what type of land force these factions have, or if they even field them outside cities. Oh, and by all means you two take over- I have no ties to military warfare, I merely studied the principles and movements of both World Wars and extrapolated what I learned to here.
Now we have to ask ourselves, from this fictional standpoint, what kind of provisions or alliances have been made that keep the nation independent? Does it act like a geneva or Swedish neutrality?
Has it been so long a neutral state that to violate its territory is considered taboo?
Is its military capability so great that just the act of taking the city would just lead to the mutual destruction of both the city and the enemy attacking army?
In terms of alliances, I assumed it was still there as if anyone moved they would be attacked by another political opponent who had wanted to undermine them for years. However, I don't know for certain, but I drew the nature of their silence due to a sort of Mexican Standoff as opposed to anything else:
The Yeshans are expansionists, they'll want it for the trade route and other points already mentioned. The Arashi League would logically attack as this would significantly reduce the trade flowing through their territory, cutting down the income from raiding.
The Angleans need food, most likely. They're probably paying through the nose to the Yeshans for crops, and being able to produce their own will open up the coffers for an expansion in military which they desperately need. While they have no Third faction to fight, taking the Burren would result in conflict on a North-South front and a East-West front across the Wastes with the Yeshans, and I imagine that in this scenario the Baronies will either make a desperate grab for Anvala now or could perhaps side with the Angleans to rid themselves of the Yeshan threat. However this second option is unlikely as it would ensure Anglean dominance in the area, presenting the Baronies with another problem.
My problem with mapping the Baronies is I don't know their history or the political mindset of the Order of Chaladon:
The Burren may be the ancestral homeland of the Baronies, presenting a reclamation motive as long as financial gains. It is odd how the faction forms in very close proximity yet doesn't utilise or hold the area from the get-go.
On Chaladon, I've compared it to the American isolationist policies of the 1920/30's- if this is the case, and they are on the defensive, using the sea as a wall, then they may not attack the Baronies if they go to war. However, there is no better time to attack them, so they could break isolation* and hit them in the rear. On another note, the area to the South of Chaladon also appears to be contested, suggesting they are perhaps fighting themselves. I'll leave that for another time, as this is long enough as is for one sitting.
Oh, and to raise something else- considering how long it would take to conquer the Burren, surely the other factions would join in the war before the original conflict was completed. This would support you idea that any invasion would cause catastrophic damage. In some ways, I think this war would be too big to happen, but I know logically it is likely due to the nature in which the World Wars started.
*we need to know the effective travel range of an airship fleet before it has to resupply for isolation to be valid.
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That's an awesome justifications break down.
On this line of reasoning Anvala is a powder keg, and each side knows it, so the Mexican standoff theory really lends itself credit with the way your points are arranged.
I could see this working really well as a point by point break down of the situation without having to get to deep into detail, yet still retain enough flexibility to retcon or adapt the story at a later time to allow good flow in a fluid emmersive story setting.
Just, really really good theory crafting wazulu.
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Where has the thread with the map gone? - can we have it as a sticky?
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http://i.imgur.com/jVubc.jpg
Map link.
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Thanks LDT.
Perhaps it's just strategically untenable to hold the city? - so an uneasy neutrality has broken out.
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As far as what I've read, Anvala's canon is that it is a large, well defended city, both in walls and weapons. Mounted heavy weapons are placed all about the place, and are presumably well hidden. The city is known for producing incredibly skilled gunners, as those mounted weapons are fabled to engage first, and ask questions later. This city would appear to be semi-isolationist.
Rightly so, if we take a look at the map. While they may be in hotly contested territory, they're also atop a large mountain, if declination is to be believed. They've presumably cleared out miles of vegetation in each direction, which would make foot-mobile advance difficult, and that's without counting the possibility of defensive patrolling operations in the region, and ground defensive positions. Following KOCOA, these guys have it made.
Key terrain? Hell yeah. It's a mountain.
Observation? Better believe it. With whatever optics are available at the time, at a height otherwise reserved for airships.
Cover/Concealment? They've made it themselves. The armor that makes these airships tough to crack likely pales in comparison to the armor afforded this shelled-in city. It doesn't have to be able to fly, after all.
Obstacles? With cleared fields in a 360 degree span, the world is your oyster. Minefields, wire, hedgehogs could all be employed in various patterns to channelize, frustrate and defeat enemy advances but the other truth here is that there probably aren't a great many awesome routes up this mountain. You'd better believe that taking any decent route will end in death.
Avenues of approach? For ground troops, this would be easy to shape. For air traffic, there's likely a challenge/pass system in effect, with incorrect signaling leading to a devastating volley. These challenges are likely rotating, as are the answers. Recovery of any data from ships friendly to Anvala will probably result in a long, arduous and frustrating series of attempts to crack this cipher, or that cipher, and even then you're probably guessing as to the rotation of that challenge/pass.
This makes Anvala a costly assault to make, in and of itself. But, let's also consider why Anvala appears to be so capable. How did they acquire all these resources? Why do they appear to be a literal hub for the region? They would likely be the source of a large percent of the world's legitimate dealings, making them a near necessity. Hitting the wrong target within Anvala could be akin to the destruction of the great library in Alexandria.
Isolated, likely neutral, probably supplying the majority of the world with various tough-to-find commodities; Anvala could very well be a "made" city.
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Where has the thread with the map gone? - can we have it as a sticky?
I've actually seen a version of this map with the borders of each faction highlighted. For our military aspects this will be more useful to see terrain, but I'll refer to the other map for political assessment. By the way, that was a pretty awesome set of theories on Anvalan defences. My next point of curiosity is how they defend the rest of the Burren, in effect, how that area hasn't been taken, bit by bit.
It could be a cultural 'line in the sand', if you cross it you're officially at war. However, I think it is a combination of the previous idea + geographical limitations- The Burren is surrounded by natural defences, around which the borders are set:
The Yeshans are on the other side of the Wastes and a mountain range
The Baronies are on the other side of the Eastern ridge.
The Angleans are on the other side of a Northern mountain range.
While I'm not overly confident with this theory, this arrangement may have occurred due to history:
While airships and flight were being researched, there was no easy way for any faction to enter the 'bowl' shaped area of the Burren effectively enough to conquer it- getting over mountain ranges have been historically disastrous for attacking forces (Hannibal). The Baronies have to get over a mountain by default, they have no way around. The Angleans will have the trouble of crossing the ocean* and then over a mountain, unless they enter through Millersweald (see map). The Yeshans have the Wastes in their way, which is suggested as some post-apocolyptic disaster site. They would most likely enter through Yannock or Yunin or even the Three bays route if they planned for a Southern assault, perhaps a Southern and Eastern. However, I think these routes were just simply too far for the Yeshans, as they would have had to conquer along the way to maintain a supply line. I think the Yeshans have been wanting to grab the Burren for generations, and with each they slowly capture the villages and towns on the way that they need, this process sped up by the invention of air travel. Also, these areas are effectively choke points, where to quote Leonidas, 'their numbers won't count for shit'. I also imagine earlier Yeshans were not well equipped to fight the conditions, as they were probably used to fighting with the early Arashi. As such, I can easily imagine an outgunned, outmanned Burren, divided as it may be, surviving until the point where we pick up the game.
Annoyingly, I forgot one key faction, the Guild. I'll need to do some research before I start to identify whether or not they would involve themselves in an Anvalan conflict.
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I don't want to interrupt, but just want to throw one thing out for your consideration: Anvala is, as several of you have said, well defended and extremely isolationist. It's prosperous and economically important, but it's not the largest city or even the area's major hub (that shoot-first policy might have something to do with it, although they've softened somewhat since Gabriel's day).
The city that you might want to take a closer look at, as basically the one great city, the neutral capital of the world, is the city of Cathedral in the Middle Plains.
Just wanted to draw some attention to that part of the world. Carry on. :)
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Ah, cheers for that. I think we assumed as it was less mentioned (I'd only heard of it once or twice myself) it was somehow less important in the area. I've seen it on the map before, and it makes sense as a more viable route to the Baronies as a trade route, and also to the Guild across the pond. Do we get any more hints as to why it's around? I fell we're painting a very aggressive and selfish portrayal of your world.
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Well given Anvala is known for it's high caliber gunners (including yours truly), I would assume other factions (mostly the Barronies) and major cities (mainly Cathedral) would come by and attempt to scout for potential recruits.
Along with skilled gunners, I'd assume they would also be highly knowledgeable in weapon system designs and can produce a fair number of weapons and munitions easily and quickly. I'd imagine most trade would be Anvala exporting weapons and munitions and importing anything it needs or wants. But given Anvala's relatively isolationists mentality and need to constantly be at watch for anything they can shoot at, exporting weapons might not be very plausible.
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So the simple answer, Anvala is simply to hardened a target, and not beneficial enough a gain for any one power to commit the sizable resources to take her.
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Wazulu, I'm glad I found this post because I see myself using it's details for my RP because others thought it a wise idea for Anvala to be raided.
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look like i have to brush up on my goi history
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MasX, when you look at the location known as Tura, just know it was burned to the ground by a pirate hoard.