Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Adomizer on June 07, 2015, 05:58:30 am
-
Currently my favorite ship is the pyramidion on the right front gun I use a chain gun and on the left front it is generally an Artemis rocket launcher. I have noticed that many people tend to use flak instead and I was wondering why? From what I have seen that Artemis is superior with its ability to break components more easily so it is still useful before the armor breaks.
This leads me to ask why is flak so popular, what am I missing?
-
It's popular because it's a default build. Gat/flak is mostly inferior to gat/mortar, especially on pyramidion front.
The artemis does less explosive damage than a mortar or flak, so kills are slower but slightly safer because the ship can't fight back or escape as well. Slow kill vs fast kill each have their advantages, it depends on the other ships and the map to decide which is better.
-
Well, Think about this.
Gat = short to mid range + Artemis = short to long range } = Pyramidion which can deal hull damage from long range. This is a good loadout but may take longer to get kills compared to other loadouts.
Gat = short to mid range + Flak= short to mid range } = Powerful pyramidion which can deal a lot of damage at a distance as well as close range.
Gat = short to mid range + Mortar = short range } = Extremely Powerful pyramidion which can deal a lot of damage at a close range once the hull is down.
-
Gat flak is a standard but easy exploitable built.
You have a effective range of 350m. That sounds decent but why bother with that when a gat mortar has 400 and the mortar deals more dmg and has nearly the same maxrange.
Reason for this is the maxrange of 450m for the gat, 400m for the mortar, much more for the flak BUT an arming range (kind of a minimum range to deal full damage) of 150m with standard muzzle speed.
If you want a flak pair it with a hades. Same arming range but much higher overall range.
Gat Artemis works but isnt to effective imo.
You sacrifice alot from the potential a artemis could have by dealing permahull dmg at higher ranges.
A hades instead of the gat is extremely valuable if you have a competent gunner.
-
I'm a believer in the "Artemis master race." It is an incredibly versatile weapon, and in good hands it is incredibly effective at more than the alternatives can offer, if you can find a good Artemis gungineer, you can effectively counter many builds, even if other builds have higher killing ability, you need to keep in mind how effective this weapon can disable other ships.
Some facts about the Artemis.
Also the Artemis does not have an arming distance, this means you can pair it with a Gatling, a Hades and a Mercury.
Load it with burst ammo, unless you intend to fight at extreme range pairing it with Mercury, then you want to load Lesmok.
Shooting burst with an artemis will destroy a small component (Light guns and turning engines.) in one shot, and two shots for heavy weapons.
If you have an Artemis gunner who is very good, he can shoot inbetween both of a Galleons guns and disable both guns in two shots, so of you're in a pyramidion against a Galleon left broadside, you can disable all three guns in one clip and have left over.
Gatling Artemis pyra counters Metamidion, your Artemis gunner disables enemy Gatling as primary target, then the mortar, while your own Gatling strips their armour, the metamidion becomes ineffective at its primary job, the Artemis deals a reasonable amount of permahull damage too, often it will require two armour breaks to kill an enemy I they have a good engineer, but this shouldn't be a problem if the enemy can't shoot you. So long as your ally can handle the enemy team mate, a gat art pyra should out do a metamidion with mediocre shooting. :)
Artemis counters Goldfish, two shots and the main gun, the life blood of the goldfish is gone, they may try for side guns, but your Artemis gunner should still have shots left in his first clip left over to take care of that.
There are however downsides!
The pilot of an Artemis weilding ship needs to be aware of all enemy ship positions and aware of his surroundings in general, if a kill ship manages an ambush, it's not likely you can recover and take control of the engagement, this however applies to all ships and builds.
The gunners need the ship to be stable, to do this, stop turning and burn kerosene or moonshine for a split second, this will.hold the ship steady and make shots for the gunner much easier to judge.
If playing at range, many Artemis shooters may zoom in, doing this makes it much harder to tell of the ship is moving in any direction, forwards backwards, left, right, up, down, so if at range, keep constant comms as to which direction you're going.
If mid to close range, Artemis shooters should try to avoid zooming in, this will help them be aware of their own ship, and enemy ship movements, making trajectory judgement easier.
Close range Artemis in brawling is not as easy as you may think, although the arcs on an Artemis may be good, the gun has a relatively slow turn rate, which makes aiming in brawls tough, the pilot should focus his ship arcs rather than rely on the Artemis turn speed.
Artemis needs to hold the high ground! It has bad upward arcs, so make sure when engaging you have the higher or of not higher, the same height!
Out of all of that the most important is keeping the ship steady, and making sure the Artemis gunner knows to target weapons and engines, timed shots to match with hull break, in my opinion should have less priority than disabling weapons.
Also a final note: Artemis is for left handed gunners!!! :):)
Remember gatlings, flaks, mortars, Hades can't kill of they can't shoot, and the Artemis can very effectively disable those guns at very reasonable ranges.
Throw the meta of kill builds out the window and accept, Artemis as your new god. 8)
-
Until someone chooses to fly above
-
Until someone chooses to fly above
That's why its important to keep the high ground and not fly low, which is a downside I noted :)
Most ships which benefit well from Artemis can keep the guns high too, mobula and pyramidion both have their guns mounts up high and will be able to keep their guns higher or at equal level to the enemy. :)
-
Throw the meta of kill builds out the window and accept, Artemis as your new god. 8)
Hades/Flak Pyra Master Race! ;D
-
Throw the meta of kill builds out the window and accept, Artemis as your new god. 8)
Hades/Flak Pyra Master Race! ;D
All flak spires are the true master race
-
The Artemis is your go to weapon when you want to live. If you want to actually still get a kill, pair it with either Gatling or Hades. Mercury is also a posibility but many use it as another disable gun with very limited gun arcs, so you have to be on the same height as your enemy all the time, which isn't always easy to do.
Gatling and Mortar on the Pyramidion front makes the Metamidion, for reasons already mentioned the Gatling paired with the Flak is suboptimal and it should be Hades and Flak.
Artemis is superior in many ways, but a problem is when you use an Artemis in close range, because the enemy can easily go above your arc, very quickly too. Being above literally everything is not always an option either as on some maps like Paritan you are spotted, visible and naked, while you don't even have any idea where your enemy is, which means you are, very likely, going to die. More problems start when you realise that your guns can't aim directly down either and if they could there is a good chance of being blocked by a balloon or even by the nose cone of the Pyramidion.
Even more problems start when you realise a Light Flak (or Mortar) work much better on some certain ships. Against Spires and Mobulas the Artemis can work great, but the Spire has four guns, one of which is a heavy one and the Mobula has five guns and on both ships aimed forward, also with the Mobula having the best vertical acceleration, which makes it relatively easy for the Mob to out-arc the Artemis, when it comes to close range stuff. Against the Spire, if the Artemis fails or if it rebuilds its guns then you are in serious trouble. Of course you could possibly outmanouver it, but when facing that much firepower, why not take your chance and kill it instead of disable until you die instead?
If fighting a Galleon, the Artemis can do wonders, if you want to support your ally that is, so it doesn't shoot your ally. That tank is so limited in movement and arcs that you have a good chance of staying above or even below it and kill it with Hades/Flak or Gat/Mortar.
Kills with an Artemis are possible and not rare at all, but it is slow. Your ally could need your help, while you are trying to kill this other ships. but with an Artemis against some ships it can take forever, then your ally dies and then you die too, because your ally cannot stop your from getting 2v1-ed when he is dead. Also, when the enemy is turned away from you and looking at your ally instead, you can destroy their engines, but that won't stop the guns or stop them from moving vertically.
Shooting burst with an artemis will destroy a small component (Light guns and turning engines.) in one shot, and two shots for heavy weapons.
That counts for almost any ammo type for the Artemis. The reason why burst is good for the Artemis is, because its secondary damage type, which is the one that is applied in AoE, is Shatter. Shatter damage is good against guns and engines and burst rounds increase that AoE radius, making it easier to damage enemy components. It also increases the maximum amound of shots you can have, with little penalty except a decreased fire rate, but nobody cares about fire rate on the Artemis since it can destroy components in so few shots.
If your Artemis gunner has a nigh perfect accuracy, he can probably do Heatsink rounds in close range to make up for the lack of rotation speed or Greased rounds for that superior dps, because of the increased fire rate.
-
And if you want an idiot resistant ship gattling + banshee is an option. The banshee does inferior hull damage but does something useful as long as your engineer shoots it at the enemy, independent of where or when it hits.
I favour banshee against pyras or junkers because its easier to hit with than flak or mortar and they die easy anyway, suffers against goldfish or galleon though.
-
You are comparing weapons where one does lots of damage with no utility versus one that does less but offers some disable.
Each to their own I guess
-
Currently my favorite ship is the pyramidion on the right front gun I use a chain gun and on the left front it is generally an Artemis rocket launcher. I have noticed that many people tend to use flak instead and I was wondering why? From what I have seen that Artemis is superior with its ability to break components more easily so it is still useful before the armor breaks.
This leads me to ask why is flak so popular, what am I missing?
Ok - I had not read previous posts.
High five man - that's one of my favourites pyra builds. ^^
Artemis is great weapon as it's great for long range disabling - with bursts even more dangerous as you might damage more components in hit radius - yet it holds nice kill potential if enemy's hull is down. Though it's less harmful compairing to flak or mortar; on the other hand, your gunengineer (the one that should stay near balloon and top left gun only) can should almost constantly, so it's a little more idiot-proof than mortar and flak builds.
Some people put banshee instead; I don't like those builds, they feel so poor when it comes to kill enemy ship. Though they are great chaos spreader if the enemy can't use chem, or has unskilled fresh engineers. But otherwise... meh.
Back to the gat-art pyra:
My gunengineer takes buff kit and burst rounds and stays only on the upper deck.
Main engineer takes standard kit and either lesmok or greased rounds - varying on what I have downstairs, flamer or banshee.
If I have a stubborn gunner, I give him normal gat rounds, but I usually encourage that guy to take buffkit and lesmoks for gatling. Though some people seem not to understand, that I want them to stay on that fockin' gatling only. -___-
Edit: Artemis is quite punishing against junkers, at least in my opinion; if you have good position, your balloon engie can damage guns on it's lower deck easily, and if the hull drops - just continue firing at lower deck components, because permahull will get it as well. Well placed burst round should be able to destroy one of components (lower engine or one of the guns) and damage the others.
-
I cringe a little when I see gat/flack these days the overlap between the gat's normal max range and the flack's max range (arming time) is quite small compared to the normal ranges we play at. If I ever get stuck gunning on a pyra with a gat/flack I bring greased for the flack or lesmok for the gat to increase the sweet spot that both guns can engage at.
Comparatively gat/artimis is better since the Artemis has no arming time and you can still be effective at point blank range. Gat/mortar is better still due to the mortar's higher DPS against unarmored hull.
The Artemis has the advantage over the Flack for things like shatter damage (ability to destroy enemy components), horizontal turn arcs, and long range accuracy. The Flack has the advantage over the Artemis for things like DPS against unarmored hull and vertical turn arcs. Neither gun can be said to be better since they do different jobs. However when you pair either gun with a gat you are asking it to do a mortar's job, and lets face it nothing does a mortar's job better than a mortar (except locknagar heavy flack).
-
Pfft, a. Good Artemis gunner keeping the gat disabled on a mortar means the gat art beats meta.
Artemis is for disable and making sure you stay safe. Meta is just "Dakka dakka roar." So uncivilised.
-
Pfft, a. Good Artemis gunner keeping the gat disabled on a mortar means the gat art beats meta.
Been there, seen that. But this requires decent gunengineer for artemis, not scrub...
-
The problem is that it kills too slow on its own, making up for its excellent disable. For Pyramidion you can try a side banshee and using a trifecta. Bring kerosene to go faster, claw to turn, and hydro to go up to keep the artemis in arc. For hydro only use it for an instant (on off) because it lasts 5 seconds. Burn engines a lot.
-
The problem is that it kills too slow on its own, making up for its excellent disable. For Pyramidion you can try a side banshee and using a trifecta. Bring kerosene to go faster, claw to turn, and hydro to go up to keep the artemis in arc. For hydro only use it for an instant (on off) because it lasts 5 seconds. Burn engines a lot.
This ^
I use Hades art art for trifecter heavy disable power and gat art banshee for the kill (Extirminator was the first to suggest it to me :) )
Pfft, a. Good Artemis gunner keeping the gat disabled on a mortar means the gat art beats meta.
Been there, seen that. But this requires decent gunengineer for artemis, not scrub...
Actually.. In my experience I find it easier to teach people to.shoot the guns than I do to teach them to wait for armour break / red cross hairs, normally it only takes a two matches before they're able to shoot it relatively well :)
Infact yesterday was flying with a lovely lady level 5, who shot very well!
:)
-
The problem is that it kills too slow on its own, making up for its excellent disable. For Pyramidion you can try a side banshee and using a trifecta. Bring kerosene to go faster, claw to turn, and hydro to go up to keep the artemis in arc. For hydro only use it for an instant (on off) because it lasts 5 seconds. Burn engines a lot.
This ^
I use Hades art art for trifecter heavy disable power and gat art banshee for the kill (Extirminator was the first to suggest it to me :) )
This funny feeling when you've come to such solution yourself.
Still requires decent engineers.
Pfft, a. Good Artemis gunner keeping the gat disabled on a mortar means the gat art beats meta.
Been there, seen that. But this requires decent gunengineer for artemis, not scrub...
Actually.. In my experience I find it easier to teach people to.shoot the guns than I do to teach them to wait for armour break / red cross hairs, normally it only takes a two matches before they're able to shoot it relatively well :)
You misunderstood me. It requires decent, cold blooded engineer who knows the drill to execute it in a way, that the enemy gats STAYS down.
-
The problem is that it kills too slow on its own, making up for its excellent disable. For Pyramidion you can try a side banshee and using a trifecta. Bring kerosene to go faster, claw to turn, and hydro to go up to keep the artemis in arc. For hydro only use it for an instant (on off) because it lasts 5 seconds. Burn engines a lot.
This ^
I use Hades art art for trifecter heavy disable power and gat art banshee for the kill (Extirminator was the first to suggest it to me :) )
This funny feeling when you've come to such solution yourself.
Still requires decent engineers.
Pfft, a. Good Artemis gunner keeping the gat disabled on a mortar means the gat art beats meta.
Been there, seen that. But this requires decent gunengineer for artemis, not scrub...
Actually.. In my experience I find it easier to teach people to.shoot the guns than I do to teach them to wait for armour break / red cross hairs, normally it only takes a two matches before they're able to shoot it relatively well :)
You misunderstood me. It requires decent, cold blooded engineer who knows the drill to execute it in a way, that the enemy gats STAYS down.
My favorite gun is a Hades. Put me on a Hades and I will see it pull its weight in destruction. 8)
-
One of the silliest builds I have ever run is a quod Artemis Pyramidion. We parked in open sky on dunes everyone got on guns. I (as pilot) had to run to the helm from time to time to make course adjustments. The constant stream of rocket trails was beautiful, as was the complete lack of incoming fire.