Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: MasX on April 10, 2013, 05:08:55 pm
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Player ran economy
A place where you can Dock your ship and walk around
Player own businesses
In ship mini games like poker blackjack
Gambling
Fuel and ammo that isn't infinite
Ship to ship communication never knows friendly
Newspaper telling events of the icarus world possibly player ran
Events like duels or races
Doesn't hurt to dream right
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I am most looking forward to co-op. I want some impossible missions that are scored by the best survival time.
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I hope ammo will stay infinite, it will cause imbalance and other sorts of stupid stuff. If you like buying ammo, I suggest playing Entropia Universe ;)
With the rest of your points I agree :) I hope they will make it into the game ^^
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I hope ammo will stay infinite, it will cause imbalance and other sorts of stupid stuff. If you like buying ammo, I suggest playing Entropia Universe ;)
With the rest of your points I agree :) I hope they will make it into the game ^^
How so limited ammo and fuel would make every journey tense and uncertain
Which adds to the overall feel maybe fuel is to much but currently a limited on ammo
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I agree on fuel, I disagree on ammo. I see where you want to go, but it will make the game too much of a grind probably. I mean if you walk the path you want to go, why not buy ships? And if they get destroyed you need to buy new ones.... or actually... grind new ones....
If that is what you like, than perhaps EVE Online is the game just for you ;) I really like your idea though, and the feeling/tense you want to create, but I think it's a bit to hardcore for this game.
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eve is a great game but boring as hell if icarus can borrow
From eve it would be an amazing game. Down fall of eve is its long ass
Skill training but it's player cooperation is top notch. Buying ship
Is,prolly gonna be in adventure mode if it wasn't everyone
Would have top notch ships and player economy wouldn't matter
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We will see what the future brings, so many decisions to make ;) Everything is okay as long as its valanced and you don't have to okay a certain amount of time to grind your ammo. Ship buying would be nice, but I hope it will remain mostly cosmetic.
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EVE works because that's what EVE's always been. You can't just apply its mechanics to another game and community and expect them to work. Hell, its mechanics rarely work for itself, it's in a constant war with its own community. Besides, GoI isn't balanced against an economy, how much time you spent grinding to get a ship isn't considered in combat balancing. It'd suck if it did.
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EVE works because that's what EVE's always been. You can't just apply its mechanics to another game and community and expect them to work. Hell, its mechanics rarely work for itself, it's in a constant war with its own community. Besides, GoI isn't balanced against an economy, how much time you spent grinding to get a ship isn't considered in combat balancing. It'd suck if it did.
Well how do you see adventure mode turning out
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I hope ammo will stay infinite, it will cause imbalance and other sorts of stupid stuff. If you like buying ammo, I suggest playing Entropia Universe ;)
Shock horror, game makes players think ahead and plan tactics and strategy!
More "stupid stuff" please..
- Weight penalties for weapons choices, ammunition load, fuel and cargo (you can tank or you can heavy haul, but you can't do both - balanced by heavy cargoes being less value-dense and less desirable and/or easy to pirate and/or less difficult to lose money on trading)
- Finite fuel (will require a passive sailing mode that will nudge a player slowly towards a town, or a low fuel state engine power that chugs along slowly)
- Finite ammunition (although a sop to the kiddies would be to allow infinite low calibre ammunition in the tradition of Tomb Raider pistol rounds)
- Actively balanced economy using AI trader agents that props up weaker players to prevent them drowning in the game but rewards strategic play (the AI fiddles the economy to make it difficult for players to lose money unless they're really taking a gamble on expensive commodities or a large trading position, include random treasure commodities in the style of pepper/spices in Patrician that reward happening to be in the right place)
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Great points Hubert P1ckle! :) I agree with all your points, except the finite ammunition one. It seems too much, but we will see how it will turn out :) I personally don't like going through endless menu's to buy (if you want to go as far as you would like) 6 types of different ammunitions ;) What could be done though, is that for every bullet you shoot you have to pay a certain price? So when you are back in a town you can press a simple button, restock and all your ammunition is there again ^^ (If you have finite you can easily restock, if you have infinite bullets you just pay a certain price/tax for the ammo used which is kinda like an artificial limit)
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I do not have the time to grind money to buy enough ammo/fuel to play adventure mode in a resonably competitive manner. If the amount of money you have in Adventure Mode is going to determine your combat capability, people who casually play this game will not be able to compete because of limited loadout and ship options, and will be driven away.
I speak for myself and my opinions here, but I don't think I'm alone. I will not pay for a game where I have to grind to get to really play the game. There are certainly those who will, which is fine, but please don't turn this into some sort of reinvention of a traditional MMO. It becomes a free-to-play, pay-to-win game with time being the currency of choice; grind-to-win.
postscript: I say I don't have the time because if I can afford all of these things playing casually, what is the impetus for people to play more seriously or to implement the finite system at all?
On the internal gameplay side, what happens with ammunition? Does the whole crew use only the Captain's ammunition stockpile? If not, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to just run AI crews who aren't subject to those limitations? Again, without the resources, it's impossible to get a foothold to gain resources. I sure as hell wouldn't want an ammoless gunner or engineer on my crew. Without fuel, you can't fly, but if you can't afford fuel, how do you afford ammo or items so you can be a crew member on a ship? It's a very prohibitive cycle.
This is a tl;dr, but I mention this because I have been a part of other game communities with this model. The main playerbase grew frustrated and began leaving because they didn't care enough to grind up the resources. The developers then introduced the 'pay-to-win' model to 'correct' the problem of the 'grind-to-win' model, which fully ruined the game. I really hope to avoid seeing these frustrating meta-mechanics in this game.
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Grind is bad, but having easy money/supplies drop as manna from heaven is unrewarding. You fall into the inflationary treasure trap of 10GP being great at the start, but after the 100th drop you're wanting more. So you end up with levelled loot and scaled rewards. Now you've split the player base by playing time and created grind - whilst trying not to.
So you need a happy medium and you need to decide how you're going to reward players. And there seems to be at least two groups of players, Captains and Crew. If we're not all going to fly with AI crew there needs to be 3-4x more Crew than Captains. How is that balanced? - what are the relative rewards and advancements in each role?
The GW model would appear to work quite well, instanced lobbies and Captains seeking crews. Each player having up to four character slots they can choose to play and advance. But there's inevitably some degree of grind, or there's no feeling of reward or advancement. GW coped by restricting advancement to 20 levels, other games went silly and pushed level ceilings stratospheric and actively encouraged grind.
How weapons/ammunition will be selected in AM is an interesting topic. As it stands in PvP the Captain makes the significant choices, but in AM the Gunner and Engineer are going to have to add something extra to the crew-ship dynamic.
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So why not make it a cosmetic grind, and let the base game and essential stuff remain intact?
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What's the point of of adventure mode if there nothing to gain
If there's nothing to lose
What gonna make this any different then the goi we have now
What the point of even making this mode if everyone is gonna
Have access to everything from the beginning
With unlimited resource what's stopping enemy factions that have
Larger player base from just camping.out side your town
With 15 galleon shooting lumber jacks and flaks on the first day of adventure mode
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What's the point of of adventure mode if there nothing to gain
If there's nothing to lose
This. Although I'd fiddle the game so it's rather than outright lose, there's a capped safety net. It's a brave developer that produces a game you can fail in.
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You can't just apply its mechanics to another game
Game designers have been taking other games mechanics for years
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What's the point of of adventurers
mode if there nothing to gain
If there's nothing to lose
This. Although I'd fiddle the game so it's rather than outright lose, there's a capped safety net. It's a brave developer that produces a game you can fail in.
Fortune favors the brave
What's the point of doing missions if there's nothing to gain
What's the point of pirating enemy factions if it's.not gonna set them back a but
What's the point of playing if I as a player have.no impacted on the world
No emotional connection to the world knowing if I die I still have everything
What's the fun in that
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What is the point of life?
Seriously what happened to the thing called fun? :p But if you want to go this road, why not make PVE and PVP ships (with different kinds of benefits) and follow the World of Warcraft model. (Repair ships, buy new armor/weapons, etc etc)
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I hope adventure mode ends up being a geopolitical extension of skirmish mode. I imagine it going like this:
Each day Muse puts out a series of mission that the players can participate in from either side.
Some players with "faction alliances" will always choose a particular side, but for the most part players will be free to join either side.
When enough people are ready a game instance starts with those mission parameters in play.
If nobody joins one side the game becomes a PvE instance with slightly different rules than skirmish.
Each game instance records its results including which faction won in a database.
At the end of the day the faction who has the most victories in the database for a particular mission is declared the victor and the results of that mission's success are propagated to the over all game world.
This is just my speculation, but it seems like the easiest implementation of "Adventure Mode" given what muse has already said about it. Perhaps their stretch goals will involve something more complex.
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That's a kool idea but with a 100K in kick start money
I hope for some more depth but I could see that being
Added
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One thing I have learned about software development is that it will always take longer and cost more than you expected. I hope Muse shoots low, achieves, then shoots slightly higher with the left over funds.
Edit: modified for spelling
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If KS only hits the $100k base target, then HamsterIV has probably struck it on the money. A very limited implementation compared to a full MMO AM. But a step in the right direction until a VC takes an interest.
I don't know what the usual last-minute frenzy is on KS (probably substantial), but if we were run a book (now there's an idea ;)) on where the KS appeal ends up, I can't really see it going over the first $150,000 stretch goal at the moment. And that's more optimistic than I was a week ago.
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What about a levelling system similar to the current skirmish mode that affords you more strategic influence in your sphere with a merit-based system?
Pickle, you make good points. I also envisioned the skirmish-esque battles you mentioned.
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I would hope for free world roaming instead of arena's but I think thats already planned, as well as official clans
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Personally I hope it's not just an extension of Skirmish Mode. It would be nice if Adventure Mode was different to just blowing enemy airships, instead it would be nice if adventure mode focused quite a lot on trading and exploration. I think the idea of limited fuel will flesh out the missions; forcing you to make sure you have enough fuel to get from to B and if not how to make necessary detours to refuel. Not sure about ammo though? If it is a free roam world I'd quite like a map and compass to navigate the world? And the idea of sailing to me sounds cool as an alternative to using your engine 24/7? But as others have said earlier on this forum; we can all dream.
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While all this stuff sounds like "fun" I would really rather have the focus be more towards shipcraft. If I wanted another MMORPG to grind for a few days then get bored with and leave I would do that. However grinding for new ships, weapons, and designs would be fun. I don't know if anyone has played APB: Reloaded, that game only draws me back because of the amazing customization you can do. The level grind in it is negligible but the money grind can be a bit harder and that IMO might be worth looking at.
As far as the ship customization wouldn't it be cool to say take the spire and move the helm to the middle deck with 3 guns up top and the engine and balloon both on the lower deck? OR a squid with 2 forward facing light guns and the helm dead center?
Not to mention entire new chassis to play around with and equip how you want within a weight limit. Different guns will have different weights, including the gun mount and a set ammo weight. I don't believe in capping the ammo unless there's a special HARDCORE mode. Also A weight for fuel and cargo.(it would be assumed you have the correct amount of fuel to get from point A to B) and this could be expanded into a manuevering bonus/penalty. E.G. Max weight for this ship is 3tons .5 tons of cargo, .5 tons of fuel, .5 tons of guns/ammo, look you're 1.5 tons under max weight you get 15% manueverabilty! or something like that.
Other wants are
4 ship CO-OP missions
clan based reputation systems
reputation clothing
player made clan decals to display on ships
PVE ship types with more than 4 crew (being OP is OK when the computer can launch hundreds of enemies at you!)
Some of this stuff is a pipe dream but hey it's fun to dream.
Forgot to mention Clan operated refueling stations.
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I posted previously in the wrong thread. If anyone has ever played Pirates of the Spanish Main for NES, this is sort of what I envisioned Adventure Mode being like.
You start out as a person with a ship somewhere in the Caribbean. You gather a crew, then either purchase goods to sell somewhere the price is higher, or go pirate other ships. Of course, there's the Dutch, French, Spaniards, and English all in the waters. Local lords will offer you Letters of Marque--basically, an agreement that if you pirate the ships of the people they're at war with (which changes), they'll give you land and money.
You can also assault and sack towns, once you have a fleet of enough ships. Disarm their guns, destroy their barracks, and the loot is yours. Of course, expect the Navy of the owning country to send ships after you as a pirate. EDIT: It's a merit-based system; countries you work for (or at least whose enemies you work against) grant you influence, wealth, and military power. Those you fight against try to kill you. It also keeps everyone from saying 'I WANNA BE A PIRATE' and just doing their own thing (unless they're good enough to justify it), which sort of destroys the history and ambiance of the world Muse has worked to create. It also means the PE No. 1 in the world would be damned good at what they do.
The ability to use multiple ships in your fleet is limited by the total crew (whom you have to pay, or else they'll mutiny), and the cargo you carry is limited by weight per ship. Think that a Squid wouldn't carry a lot of cargo, but would be good for carrying small and valuable items.
I really would like to see some air-to-ground combat; cities defended by heavy and light weapons, troops battling on the ground. Imagine a giant dirigible dropping stacks of bombs (a la Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2) on enemy troops and gun emplacements. Right now we just face off against other airships, but it would be very empowering for the player to see just how much destruction a Hwacha volley could wreak on enemy forces on the ground. It would also bring a welcome level of complexity to PvE where enemy pilot AI would have a tough time keeping up with the talents of the playerbase.
And along with Ofiach, I would like to see a giant Koopa Kruiser-style ship of chained together airships that a large PvE battle is waged against. Think Independence Day.
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Call me girly but what ever MUSE does is ok EXPECT for the following:
*More music (Depending on empire or map)
*Sooooo much Cloths! (I don't have NEAR enough outfits)
*More Hair styles (the option to be a bald guy :P)
*The option to change body types (let there be chubbys!)
Finally, 1 more (non-cosmetic) idea: On the original GoI, I loved that animation with the guy climbing back on the ship after he fall. That lil thing should be on Adventure mode! Thats all. ^^
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What's the point of of adventure mode if there nothing to gain
If there's nothing to lose
What gonna make this any different then the goi we have now
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The world and the lore, I love those unique aspects of the game, I don't disagree with your other points but I'm just saying being able to get deeper into the game itself and become more immersed in the world is a great start alone for me (in terms of it being "different")
I think infinite ammo is required if nothing else to stop people sabotaging your journey with trolling and wasting it, or a poor aim. Regarding that "poor aim" point; that could come from players that are finding the learning curb into "leading" their aim quite steep etc, and having them not QUITE so heavily penalized is a GOOD thing that encourages MORE players to KEEP at it.
Whilst I love the idea of the essence of the game remaining pretty hardcore skill-based, I don't want to see people dropping out simply as they are having too rough a time against those with more experience, the game should follow that beautiful yet hard to pull off credos:
"Simple to learn, difficult to master!"
That's just my 'ickle two pence, I realise I’ve not dealt with many of the other issues at hand, I do have opinions on them but that’s enough for this wall of text.
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*The option to change body types (let there be chubbys!)
And let the men have actual waistlines! Not rectangle tube bodies!
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Okay so last post on this board (sorry for triple post I’ve just been going through the topic and replying as and when.)
PLEASE no Clans, let people that want to play together play together, with trust and the friends/group chat set-up for coordination! Clans alienate new players and doesn't feel very sky pirate or steampunky... just more standard MMO bs...
Just have a crew and become a recognisable unit; players, ships and crews are making waves RIGHT NOW as the game is simply by being good, not by affiliation with Gaming clans.
I could accept "Empires/Factions" for those wanting to colonise/take a support a country(Team/Side) role (Including being a part of their military/guard), and then have a load of people not in such teams be Merchants/Explorers/Pirates n' the like. But truly I think people should be encouraged just to get to know each other and sound off not to fire on each other if traveling in peace or something, make secret passwords so as not to get trolled! Sometimes the Passes get leaked and you have to fight to get things back in order n' find the leak etc. These last few ideas take NO in-game implementation and allow the COMMUNITY to set the standards instead of relying on game mechanics!
(Something I feel should be encourage in many areas, AND as an indie company seems to be Muses strong point!)
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Player ran economy
A place where you can Dock your ship and walk around
Player own businesses
In ship mini games like poker blackjack
Gambling
Fuel and ammo that isn't infinite
Ship to ship communication never knows friendly
Newspaper telling events of the icarus world possibly player ran
Events like duels or races
Doesn't hurt to dream right
I agree with all these point, but problems could occur with a economy other MMO's such as Runescape have been ruined by bots and gold farmers. Another thing on my wishlist is merchanting ships aswell as battle ships so you could become a merchant or a fighter :D
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Personally, i hope they go all out roguelike. I like a game that doesnt hold your hands, yet has a simple baseline, that still allows you to go in depth.
If you leave things like plotting a route across the land to the player, without any handholding, leaving them to read landmarks on a map, scrounging through the rainblasted fog, frantically keeping an eye out for that well known rocky peak. That would put alot of value on veteran and bright minded players.
Also im all for finite ammo and fuel, as long as the mechanics sorrounding it arent tedious, I do not want to memorize spreadsheets in my spare time. The game still needs to be fundamentally fun i think.
Im also hoping that the player is given free hands in a dangerous world, meaning you can raid and pillage anyone, provided they can do the same to you. So a merchant wont leave port without an escort, wich they will have to pay for their trouble.
And perhaps most importantly, Keep levels irrelevant to gameplay. You can have a fancy title, and that might theoretically seperate the men from the boys, but a new player has to have the potential to be exactly as dangerous and a rugged veteran.
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Personally, i hope they go all out roguelike. I like a game that doesnt hold your hands, yet has a simple baseline, that still allows you to go in depth.
If you leave things like plotting a route across the land to the player, without any handholding, leaving them to read landmarks on a map, scrounging through the rainblasted fog, frantically keeping an eye out for that well known rocky peak. That would put alot of value on veteran and bright minded players.
Also im all for finite ammo and fuel, as long as the mechanics sorrounding it arent tedious, I do not want to memorize spreadsheets in my spare time. The game still needs to be fundamentally fun i think.
Im also hoping that the player is given free hands in a dangerous world, meaning you can raid and pillage anyone, provided they can do the same to you. So a merchant wont leave port without an escort, wich they will have to pay for their trouble.
And perhaps most importantly, Keep levels irrelevant to gameplay. You can have a fancy title, and that might theoretically seperate the men from the boys, but a new player has to have the potential to be exactly as dangerous and a rugged veteran.
Agreed on everything
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Personally, i hope they go all out roguelike. I like a game that doesnt hold your hands, yet has a simple baseline, that still allows you to go in depth.
If you leave things like plotting a route across the land to the player, without any handholding, leaving them to read landmarks on a map, scrounging through the rainblasted fog, frantically keeping an eye out for that well known rocky peak. That would put alot of value on veteran and bright minded players.
Also im all for finite ammo and fuel, as long as the mechanics sorrounding it arent tedious, I do not want to memorize spreadsheets in my spare time. The game still needs to be fundamentally fun i think.
Im also hoping that the player is given free hands in a dangerous world, meaning you can raid and pillage anyone, provided they can do the same to you. So a merchant wont leave port without an escort, wich they will have to pay for their trouble.
And perhaps most importantly, Keep levels irrelevant to gameplay. You can have a fancy title, and that might theoretically seperate the men from the boys, but a new player has to have the potential to be exactly as dangerous and a rugged veteran.
Agreed on everything
me 2
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Personally, i hope they go all out roguelike. I like a game that doesnt hold your hands, yet has a simple baseline, that still allows you to go in depth.
If you leave things like plotting a route across the land to the player, without any handholding, leaving them to read landmarks on a map, scrounging through the rainblasted fog, frantically keeping an eye out for that well known rocky peak. That would put alot of value on veteran and bright minded players.
Also im all for finite ammo and fuel, as long as the mechanics sorrounding it arent tedious, I do not want to memorize spreadsheets in my spare time. The game still needs to be fundamentally fun i think.
Im also hoping that the player is given free hands in a dangerous world, meaning you can raid and pillage anyone, provided they can do the same to you. So a merchant wont leave port without an escort, wich they will have to pay for their trouble.
And perhaps most importantly, Keep levels irrelevant to gameplay. You can have a fancy title, and that might theoretically seperate the men from the boys, but a new player has to have the potential to be exactly as dangerous and a rugged veteran.
Agreed on everything
me 2
the dutchmen agree
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Wow, yes, all the above.
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Hear Hear