Guns Of Icarus Online
Admin => Dev App Testing => Topic started by: Watchmaker on March 31, 2015, 05:01:58 pm
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Added
- Stamina is back for more testing
- Improved HUD: shows more information on gun, drop shadows for readability against clouds, cleaner compass and ship health
- New particles for component destruction
Changes
- Rematch: Can rematch any number of times, rematch vote threshold increased to 60% (at least some of both teams must agree), defaults to no rematch
- Flamethrower "projectiles" no longer penetrate ships (each particle can hit only one target)
- Moved Steam notification to upper right
- Character customization screen no longer changes your currently selected class
- Practice now gets match (rather than menu) music
Fixes
- Balloon repair UI now shows "big fire" icon only when >8 stacks (consistent with other repair UI)
- Minotaur has its flames and damage effects again
- No more "dummy" shots when getting off the Minotaur (or carronades)
- Improved audio memory usage significantly
- Fixed delay before "invalid repair hit" sound effect
- A number of other UI and model fixes
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- Flamethrower "projectiles" no longer penetrate ships (each particle can hit only one target)
No senpai
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So Chem spray just became more godlike?
I like the idea of it not penetrating but with chem as it is it, you might as well just remove flamethrowers.
Other changes looking good. I'm looking forward to seeing Stamina perfected and added to the game. Especially for COOP.
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How many particles of fire are there for a burst of flamer? If I just click once, is that one particle? Or is it like 12 particles for one "graphic" of fire?
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Practice mode is broken in the dev app. The moment you start loading in you end up on a victory screen that doesn't count down, and it doesn't allow you to access menu. You have to force quit the game if you want to leave practice. I have to ask, how can something like this happen, was it due to the soundtrack change?
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Can't use practice. You get an instant victory screen with 1000 points, then just cycles the victory pose with no way out of the screen.
(ha, Dutch)
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Can't use practice. You get an instant victory screen with 1000 points, then just cycles the victory pose with no way out of the screen.
(ha, Dutch)
I somehow got in once out of four times I tried, also emailed feedback already about the matter.
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Something is very weird with Practice. My guess at the moment is that it's latency related, since I can frequently get into one on US servers but almost always fail on EU (also because this didn't show up at all in our local development servers.)
Welcome to the dev app, we find bugs here so we don't find them in production.
Re: flamethrower, one particle corresponds to each "bullet" in the ammo counter. There's no exact correspondence between these and the rendered flames, but they fill approximately the same volume. It is likely there will be a corresponding chem spray nerf at some point, we're trying to move flamethrower/chemspray balance to something a bit less extreme.
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Please don't nerf flamethrower. Give extinguisher a buff. Flamethrower is hard-countered without a secondary source of damage to break cycles by chem.
The only condition under which I'd term a weapon in GOI OP is if it was sufficient paired with itself/no other gun to promise a kill. The flamethrower is not at that point.
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Practice should work now.
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Please don't nerf flamethrower. Give extinguisher a buff. Flamethrower is hard-countered without a secondary source of damage to break cycles by chem.
The only condition under which I'd term a weapon in GOI OP is if it was sufficient paired with itself/no other gun to promise a kill. The flamethrower is not at that point.
You know what would be OP?
This.
(http://i.imgur.com/LeeXcKj.jpg)
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The new pilot tool effects...fantastic! If I could I'd hire a big fat greek or italian momma to come by Muse and give you all kisses! :D
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Oh, sure, just go ahead and ignore the painstakingly modeled Prometheus...
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Used the flamethrower a bit. I like the idea of the change, but in practice the hitbox for other ships seemed crazy weird.
For instance I was using a flamethrower while facing the front of a junker. With other guns like artemis, gat, carronade, etc; you're able to shoot the side guns or even the engines if you're able to aim well. Even with these in view, when trying to shoot them every flamer shot seemed to hit the hull, with the hit marker showing in an area I wasn't even close to; and even weirder there was hit marker floating in the air and counting as hull when I tried to shoot the lower guns.
If this weirdness gets fixed, it should be fine. Currently the flamer can set an incredible number of fires all over the ship. You can be above the ship, aiming down and hit their balloon, hull, and other components if you aim moderately well. With this adjustment, you'd only end up hitting the balloon. The gun will be a lot less effective in competitive, but should be a lot more balanced for pub matches. Maybe.
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I agree that one of the flamer's more interesting features was ship penetration, but I kind of see the reason for the change. Could we maybe only make a partial penetration, like 10 meters before the particle stops? I would like to still be able to flame a pyramidion's front guns from above.
Also, THANK YOU MUSE for the rematch changes. Unlimited rematches are one of the things we missed most about old lobbies. Now to add named lobbies and it will be perfect :D
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Please don't nerf flamethrower. Give extinguisher a buff. Flamethrower is hard-countered without a secondary source of damage to break cycles by chem.
The only condition under which I'd term a weapon in GOI OP is if it was sufficient paired with itself/no other gun to promise a kill. The flamethrower is not at that point.
With extinguishers it is a guaranteed kill. A single flame can lock down a ship with extinguishers regardless of skill. This will be a major nerf to the flame and buff to chem which doesn't need a buff.
The issue is that correct chem is mandatory and extinguishers are completely useless which breaks balance in pub matches. If the extinguisher were buffed there would be no need for flame nerf.
Buffing the extinguisher is a simpler and more balanced approach than nerfing flame + buffing chem.
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I agree that one of the flamer's more interesting features was ship penetration, but I kind of see the reason for the change. Could we maybe only make a partial penetration, like 10 meters before the particle stops? I would like to still be able to flame a pyramidion's front guns from above.
Also, THANK YOU MUSE for the rematch changes. Unlimited rematches are one of the things we missed most about old lobbies. Now to add named lobbies and it will be perfect :D
Wouldn't ten meters be about the width of a junker? Seems to defeat the purpose of removing penetration, if it penetrates most of the way through most ships.
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We were joking about this in TS, but if the flame stops after hitting a component, one might need heavy clip so that all the shots don't get stuck on one chem sprayed component.
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I would also rather see fire extinguisher get more love than a change in the flamethrower's mechanics.
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I would also rather see fire extinguisher get more love than a change in the flamethrower's mechanics.
This. Every time I engie, I have extinguisher.
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Please don't nerf flamethrower. Give extinguisher a buff. Flamethrower is hard-countered without a secondary source of damage to break cycles by chem.
The only condition under which I'd term a weapon in GOI OP is if it was sufficient paired with itself/no other gun to promise a kill. The flamethrower is not at that point.
With extinguishers it is a guaranteed kill. A single flame can lock down a ship with extinguishers regardless of skill. This will be a major nerf to the flame and buff to chem which doesn't need a buff.
The issue is that correct chem is mandatory and extinguishers are completely useless which breaks balance in pub matches. If the extinguisher were buffed there would be no need for flame nerf.
Buffing the extinguisher is a simpler and more balanced approach than nerfing flame + buffing chem.
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I don't really like the changes to the compass or ship health. I used the tick marks between compass direction to give my crew a more accurate direction. For example “target at one tick right of north.”
And with the health I found it helpful to tell my captain how many “bars” of health I had left after a engagement. Over all I feel as though the UI changes are unneeded, and are only there to say “Hay guys look something new and shiny!”
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I don't really like the changes to the compass or ship health. I used the tick marks between compass direction to give my crew a more accurate direction. For example “target at one tick right of north.”
And with the health I found it helpful to tell my captain how many “bars” of health I had left after a engagement. Over all I feel as though the UI changes are unneeded, and are only there to say “Hay guys look something new and shiny!”
Completely agree. Not to mention that you lost the team color on the bottom right behind the hull health. I remember when only the color was there because people complained they didn't know what team they were on and now there is no color indicition on the hud again...
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I want to know who at Muse is constantly approving these BS changes.
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I don't really like the changes to the compass or ship health. I used the tick marks between compass direction to give my crew a more accurate direction. For example “target at one tick right of north.”
And with the health I found it helpful to tell my captain how many “bars” of health I had left after a engagement. Over all I feel as though the UI changes are unneeded, and are only there to say “Hay guys look something new and shiny!”
I do agree, hull bar is too short. It is NOT a secondary item so why in the world are you trying to hide it? Because design? Then I shall answer "Because Mines"...
Don't make the HUD too minimalistic: it's a steampunk game afterall
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Going to have to agree. The UI is getting far too clean and modern for the game aesthetics.
The gunner stuff is actually cumbersome, confusing, and will never be looked at. It is too small and far away from the 'tunnel vision' gunner area to be easily seen. My suggestion is to put all useful information on the reticle itself... which gives me an idea.
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@richard, far away? the old ammo indicator (which certainly did get looked at) was further away.
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"cumbersome, confusing" "It is too small and far away"
You missed key wording. The current one is very large, unobstructed, has a highlighting background, and pretty much by itself. It is easy to see out of the corner of your eye. The same can not be said about the test UI. It is small, looks every similar to everything around it, and thus takes more time to glance at.
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Changes
- Rematch: Can rematch any number of times, rematch vote threshold increased to 60% (at least some of both teams must agree), defaults to no rematch
I hope that everybody is aware that with infinite rematches matchmaking might become even less effective with the low playerbase.
I am still in favor of "Crew form / Matchmake with your party, re-queue with your party". That would solve at least all known issues of "I can't play with my friends anymore!"...
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Build 475 is up. Changes of note:
- Flamethrower particles now penetrate a short distance (effectively, they will hit any components near their initial impact)
- Spotting in and around clouds has been significantly improved; ships occluded by only a small thickness of cloud are still spottable.
- Gun and ship data in the Library now unlock earlier (novice-usable stuff immediately, other stuff on novice graduation)
- Crewmembers can now see what spawn point their captain has selected while respawning
- Carronade arcs reduced slightly
- Heavy Carronade range reduced slightly
- Heavy Clip now reduces recoil by 95% (was 100%)
- Carronade reload times slightly increased
- Med Carronade shatter damage decreased, some damage added to flechette side
- Fire extinguisher higher immunity duration with shorter repair cooldown
(Stat changes may be tweaked slightly more today, but this is what's up at the moment of this writing.)
Fixes to dev-app-only bugs of note:
- Flares that have not armed no longer stick around forever
- Water Hazard loads again
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OH MY GOD THEY'VE LISTENED
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OH MY GOD THEY'VE LISTENED
Or they want to appear to be listening
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- Heavy Clip now reduces recoil by 95% (was 100%)
Facepalm so hard...
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5994.msg100459.html#msg100459
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OH MY GOD THEY'VE LISTENED
Or they want to appear to be listening
Either way, they fixed just about everyone's complaints about the last patch. Whether they are faking it or not, thank you Muse.
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Label me impressed.
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- Heavy Clip now reduces recoil by 95% (was 100%)
Facepalm so hard...
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5994.msg100459.html#msg100459
I don't understand why you say facepalm. That post looks like a complaint about changes to how heavy clip behaves with carronade only. The dev post does not say it will only affect carronade. I think some spread on hwacha will work out well, to limit the long range snipe chain that you can do with heavy clip.
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to limit the long range snipe chain that you can do with heavy clip. (hwacha)
yeah... but we don't want to nerf that
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Nobody asked for it, but I think it seems reasonable. Heavy clip is not useless, it still increases the effective range of a gun. I just never really thought it was fun to be flying along and suddenly lose half of your ship. Not to am ambush, but to a guy who is miles away. With the change, you can still pull off some long shots, just not with the insane, every shot lands in the same spot, accuracy.
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- Carronade arcs reduced slightly
- Heavy Carronade range reduced slightly
- Heavy Clip now reduces recoil by 95% (was 100%)
- Carronade reload times slightly increased
- Med Carronade shatter damage decreased, some damage added to flechette side
- Fire extinguisher higher immunity duration with shorter repair cooldown
I don't think the up arc was ever a problem. I think the 30 degree up arc should be retained.
What are the numbers for the new extinguisher?
I'm glad to see the variety of new testing implements and I hope some of them make it.
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Actually, I asked for the 95% reduction. Testing it out, it does not really do anything noticeable, including on the hwatcha. I would push the test to 90%, or maybe even 80% with no ammo reduction and see what happens.
As for the carro gun arcs, I could only test on target balloons, so can't really comment.
Flamethrower still seems really odd. Concentrated fire on a drone fromt he engine end did not seem to set many things on fire. Will have to test further.
Lastly, can anyone confirm that the visual effects of guns are happening after an impact, behind the target or geometry? Light flak especially.
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- Carronade arcs reduced slightly
- Heavy Carronade range reduced slightly
- Carronade reload times slightly increased
- Med Carronade shatter damage decreased, some damage added to flechette side
Reducing arcs, it is a nice balanced nerf for such a universal gun, but with the excpetion of the reload (which is an arguably little change), I wouldn't want any other nerf on it after that. You can't really nerf the gun more after that anyway, unless actually being smart enough to lower the shatter damage to a reasonable amount, since sniping components for a balloon popping gun is silly. (Make way for the close range Mercury!)
If you reduce the range of the Heavy Carronade the please also reduce the range of the Light Carronade. Their ranges are way to close to each other.
Change of damage didn't change much, but hey, at least the armor dies a little bit slower.
And what is a Med Carronade anyway, (they mean heavy carronade, but they refer to it with two different names which is a silly thing to do).
- Heavy Clip now reduces recoil by 95% (was 100%)
Facepalm so hard...
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5994.msg100459.html#msg100459
I don't understand why you say facepalm. That post looks like a complaint about changes to how heavy clip behaves with carronade only. The dev post does not say it will only affect carronade. I think some spread on hwacha will work out well, to limit the long range snipe chain that you can do with heavy clip.
He did so, because in his post (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5994.msg100459.html#msg100459) that he links to, he describes how very little change it does. It now mostly effects the Heavy Clip Hwacha, which was already hard to hit with in long range and now is possibly even harder to hit with, unless the target is moving to dodge, then I guess the spread can help hitting a bit better, but it does not reward poin-point accuarcy at all. Other guns affected by it are Banshee, Gatling and Minotaur.
Nobody asked for it, but I think it seems reasonable.
If nobody asked for a change, then why do it in the first place? I say it was is one of the best ammo types out of the few that Muse has created and shouldn't be touched.
Accuracy with guns like Hwacha at long range with Heavy clip should be rewarded with actually doing stuff, not with the spread of fucking you up.
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@Watchmaker:
Check the values on the Heavy Carronade upward angles, they are still very high. Penetration also went to every other gun, not sure if intended.
(http://cloud-2.steamusercontent.com/ugc/540771566027286743/4CCF0CFC6C99CE8626C2EDF76F74FE8BE6FE6F1E/)
Banshee shots going through the ship
- Carronade arcs reduced slightly
- Heavy Carronade range reduced slightly
- Heavy Clip now reduces recoil by 95% (was 100%)
- Carronade reload times slightly increased
- Heavy Carronade shatter damage decreased, some damage added to flechette side
Arc nerfs are probably to compensate for Stamina, I agree with range nerf because Blenderfish's initiation range was too easy. Damage change only really affects component sniping, and reload time affects killing power and gives enemies a better window of defending themselves.
Just like Extir pointed out, Heavy Clip change feels more like a nerf to the Hwacha than the Carronade.
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Other guns affected by it are Banshee, Gatling and Minotaur.
While gatling and banshee are affected by it, they are affected in a very minor way. The only one suffering from the 95% is hwacha, and possibly minotaur which was already harder to shoot but I can't calculate by how much because I don't have the jitter stat for it.
The point is, 95% doesn't do much and in most cases makes the carronades even easier to snipe with. To get an actual effect you will have to drop it even further which in return will make other weapons namely hwacha, minotaur and arguably banshee suffer too, and the nerf is supposed to affect carronades and not other guns which were completely fine before.
That is why going down the road of heavyclip changes is completely senseless and damaging rather than benefiting.
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Trails extending a bit too far has literally always been a thing (blame the combination of latency and high projectile speeds.) Unless you have a case where this breaks in dev app but not in production that's a known (and minor visual) issue.
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The explosions are happening behind the target as well. At least 50 meters behind the target after the hit. We should have been showing the flak where this is more evident. Going to grab some screenshots now.
OK, just tested again and the issue seems to have been fixed. Explosions are now happening where they should. Nice work.
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*sigh* I am not liking heavy weapon nerfs. They're in a weak enough place as it is. Carrofish are good, but the only "OP" bit, in my opinion is the ability to "slow blend"-sit out of arcs, and slowly kill someone via constant balloon lock. I've won matches that I shouldn't have been able to that way, especially against ships like the junker, and the better fix is to simply change balloon rebuild times. Carronade effectiveness is needed to enable Goldfish and Galleons have a good role outside of frankly, niche options (Lumberfish).
What a Carrofish should be good at is a fast death-or-glory attack-pop balloon, shatter armor, and ram, with support of side weapons. That's where I'd like to see it end up.
Nerfing heavy clip is going to hurt the galleon, which already struggles without support ship. (Though I did see some impressive Ryder galleons a few months back.) Still. I don't think we want the ability of Hwatchas to long-range disable removed, especially since that takes impressive gunning unless you're stationary completely stationary, be it on Goldfish or Galleon. (I can't speak for Spire, as I rarely pilot it outside of long-range builds.)
This honestly feels like an attempt to nerf anything that's fun and effective, rather than buff things that are less effective to that level.
(Edited with more context.)
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So, my original thought on the heavy clip nerf was actually a branch of the Stamina issues. My thought was to not give the extra arcs to gunners (which really makes no sense), and instead give them 30% or something recoil reduction while using stamina. This would benefit all ammos except heavy, which is an engineer's mainstay on a lot of guns. This would still make engineers more valuable. So, my idea was to nerf heavy clip so that the gunner's stamina buff + heavy clip = 100% recoil reduction. Engineers would have to settle for 60% recoil reduction.
It makes sense to me to reduce recoil while using stamina due to the extra effort and concentration being used to steady the gun and predict and compensate for its bucking.
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Hmm. Paired with that, I could dig a heavy recoil Nerf. It doesn't seem to help guns like Mercuries, or Artimii, however-any ideas for that?
Heavy is only a mainstay on Hwatcha, Gat, Banshee, and Carronade, as far as I know, so that's...four guns?
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Artemis already benefits from the faster turning. Gunners are already used on Mercs quite a bit, and they are quite powerful... not sure what added effect would be good for them without being overpowered on other guns (like the arc increase).
I would also remove the ammo reduction on heavy, making it much more useful on other guns like mortar, flame, and flak where it is quite good at max range, but for the lack or rounds.
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May be worthwhile remembering that dev ap is equal parts balancing before patches and testing concepts. I imagine today's changes are more part of the latter. I doubt this would all go into production. I wouldn't start freaking out just yet.
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Applies. (https://youtu.be/2XDxxM_6QGA)
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Explosions are now happening where they should.
Which is to say, everywhere :D
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I've hated the disable meta for awhile now. Just another one of the reasons I don't want to do competitive or really play as much. It's point n click gameplay and everyone does it. Take blender, lock ship down, easy win. Rinse, repeat. There is no skill involved at all. Almost falls asleep when I crew on blenders.
But I don't think we need to nerf Carros to oblivion to solve it. In fact, just adding Stamina is going to bring in a factor for countering that shouldn't be discounted. Heavy guns have been nerfed to hell way too much.
Muse if you do this, you'll only make any heavy gun ship outside of the Spire even less played. The Spire can at least put light guns to offset it's suckiness, but Fish and Galleon will be dead. Then traditionally your solution to solving that has been...nerf all the other ships or guns...STOP IT! It didn't work the first time, and it hasn't worked the last x number of times!!
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Try looking at it in game. I'd hardly call where it is nerfed to oblivion.
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I think it's pretty mild compared to their past history of balance changes.
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I think the up/down nerf could be compensated by a small horizontal buff.
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well I am happy with the extinguisher buff, a 2 second cooldown and 4 second immunity, it may be small but on tight components like the engines on the pyra I can spray and repair them all very fast now.
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I prefer the old hud, in part because it wasn't as sleek/modern looking. The round stamina bar seemed obtrusive, but maybe that's just because I'm not used to it. My class icon displayed larger than the hull health isn't the way I would have prioritized the information.
I'm also not sold on the stamina system. It doesn't seem to add much tactical depth, and doesn't mesh too nicely with the nice and simple equipment system.
That being said, seeing dev support this long after release is great! I mean only to be constructive.