Guns Of Icarus Online

Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Koali on March 30, 2015, 07:09:29 pm

Title: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Koali on March 30, 2015, 07:09:29 pm
So the Minotaur does Piercing damage... Would it pair well with a Hades and Heavy Flak for a Metamidion-style broadside? (I'm talking Pierce-Explode here.)
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Replaceable on March 30, 2015, 07:12:06 pm
Meta-Galleon is still: Hades/flak/lumber then carro/hwatcha.

But a hades/hwatcha/minotaur is pretty good on left side too.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Koali on March 30, 2015, 07:17:49 pm
But... CASUAL META
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: BlackenedPies on March 30, 2015, 07:29:57 pm
Pre nerf it was a great combo because of the high shatter damage, velocity, and range making it easy to hit heavy weapons. It could slow down charging ships and knock off the aim of snipers. It was an easy to use alternative to the lumberjack. It was a perfect combo to the right side hwatcha or carro because an optimal loadout for both is spanner mallet buff heavy clip. We considered it as an alternative to the Duck galleon.

I haven't tried the Minotaur post nerf but I'm skeptical that it has any real use. The lumberjack is a powerful albeit difficult weapon that can pop balloons and allow heavy flak to deal direct damage when shot at balloon. Due to the low range I don't think Minotaur can be reliably paired with hades and flak.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: JaegerDelta on March 31, 2015, 11:09:33 pm
no idea post nerf, it could very well still work.

however i would want someone who is very accurate with the minotaur. because it would not be quick burst down like the pure light gun pierce/explosive. you would have to rely on the minotaur to not only contribute piercing but also to keep damage off your hull so your top hades can get damage in consistently without too many repair interruptions. would probably be most effective against teams that are using brawler builds on a big open map such as dunes.

will definitely not be a super effective build, but i find using non-optimized builds more fun, its like GoI:O hard mode :P
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Byron Cavendish on April 01, 2015, 02:36:28 am
I'm a big fan of the double lumber merc, but it's either that or the hades lumber flak. The minotaur was going to be the new meta, but it's nerf was too much to make it viable now.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Koali on April 01, 2015, 09:07:04 am
Solution? Buff damage, nerf push force.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: BlackenedPies on April 02, 2015, 10:10:21 am
The issue with buffing damage is that it's a heavy weapon with piercing and shatter. Before it used to be about 1.5 hades shots of armor dmg per shot and with a buff was enough to 1 shot any component except heavy engine. The piercing seemed around 'balanced' but the shatter was high considering it was so easy to shoot. Couple that with the fact that it was very fast with long range and incredible arcs.

The issue with the taur was that it seemed destined as a close range gun but ended up long range sniper. My favorite use for it was the up arc as a defensive weapon like against fish. It may still have that use but I've been too apprehensive to try it. As a defensive weapon with high up arc I think it has a good place. As long range piercing shatter- no.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Indreams on April 02, 2015, 10:32:24 am
I'm thinking of trying lumberjack-minotaur on the starboard side to provide long range support. But I don't think anything really beats carro-hwacha or flak-lumber.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Crafeksterty on April 02, 2015, 10:46:58 am
How hard hitting is dual greased minotaurs and a light flak at mid range?
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: BlackenedPies on April 02, 2015, 11:02:12 am
Minotaur has 800m range now which is more like medium long. Pre nerf I saw taur lumber work well but that was when taur had an extra 1000m and +450m/s. It's worth a try but I'm skeptical of pairing with a long range lumber. I see an issue with dps because you'd need something like light flak or hades on top. Either one requires support from ally to be most effective.

I'm thinking lesmok gat could pair with taur + hwatcha/flak due to the similar range. Lesmok gat is 765m compared to taur 800.


@Crafeksterty

Greased just isn't reliable any closer than about 200 at the most. Taurs need buff heavy to be effective at medium range.

Getting up close with dual greased sounds fun to try but even then I'd use regular up to around 150. Brawling with greased and a heatsink light flak/lesmok mortar sounds like good fun.

Maybe heatsink taur due to the extra dmg per clip and rof/reload? It would also pair better with right side.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Koali on April 02, 2015, 11:29:30 am
Perhaps it could be used in a casual match for inexperienced crew?

Then again, this would involve inexperienced crew on a Galleon...
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: BlackenedPies on April 02, 2015, 11:37:08 am
Well taurs aren't difficult to shoot once you get the hang of no visible projectile. In causal matches I don't think it would be best paired with lumber or flak due to their difficulty and arm time. I think the other combos could work. But with heavy clip for taur except close range.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Indreams on April 02, 2015, 01:08:30 pm
But with heavy clip for taur except close range.

Oh, God. It's another H.Carronade and Hwacha.  :-\
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Dementio on April 02, 2015, 02:30:28 pm
Minotaur has 800m range now which is more like medium long.

Cannot confirm:

(http://i.imgur.com/v3DBy7w.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Byron Cavendish on April 02, 2015, 02:50:41 pm
Well Eric said on a Fireside he's too busy to change the notes right away, if ever. Any more pressure about it and he (jokingly?) threatened to remove the notes all together.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: BlackenedPies on April 02, 2015, 03:08:14 pm
I had read the 1.4.0 hotfix 1 notes incorrectly. Range remains unchanged while velocity and shatter dmg are reduced. So it's still a long range gun but is significantly more difficult to hit at those ranges.

Kinda sounds balanced to me...
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Richard LeMoon on April 02, 2015, 06:12:38 pm
It is barely used at all. so balance is not good. It is hard to shoot (with good results), and not very rewarding, so not much fun. It has very limited use on very few builds, much like its smaller mirror brother, the harpoon. I have made some suggestions in an email that I hope will be tested.

As for broadside Galleon.... the upwards arc decapitation has made it a very hard sell. Blenders can once again just waltz up and kill you. It is still valid on a Spire, though.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: BlackenedPies on April 02, 2015, 06:21:08 pm
I was unaware that they reduced the vertical arcs. I saw the up arc as good to help defend against tactics like blending. Such nerf
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Arturo Sanchez on April 02, 2015, 08:25:18 pm
Well Eric said on a Fireside he's too busy to change the notes right away, if ever. Any more pressure about it and he (jokingly?) threatened to remove the notes all together.

lol I rarely hear people say "Let me take a look at the notes/reports"

I'm not even sure what % of the population is even aware.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Indreams on April 02, 2015, 11:48:11 pm
I think a lot of us do look at the notes. I do for one, because changes warrant a discussion.

Anyways, Muse never does subtle balance patches, do they? Minotaur was powerful one day, weak the next. Somewhere in-between must be the golden balance.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Dementio on April 03, 2015, 07:53:46 am
Minotaur used to be powerful, but not really useful. Now it's weak and still not useful.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Byron Cavendish on April 03, 2015, 08:37:25 am
Like you said, Muse doesn't do subtle balance changes. Don't get your hopes up.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Crafeksterty on April 04, 2015, 12:24:42 am
Waaaat greased minotaur is only best at 200  meeter range? Buulll crappooo! But i havent tried either, cus i cant. I seriously cannot grab a serious test of this in pub and competetive setting. Can someone actualy use the minotaur for a good period and find juicy stuff?

Cus currently i hear people say its useless but not how. From when i used it, still pretty viable but never experimented or used it often.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: BlackenedPies on April 04, 2015, 03:27:09 am
The issue with using greased at further ranges is the dispersion of particles. This causes some particles to miss and others to hit balloon. I observed that the particles that hit aren't concentrated enough to push effectively. Greased can be used at further ranges, but of the particles that hit some will hit balloon and others will spread out too much to reliably push. In many cases I'd encourage using heavy clip up to 300 meters or even closer if your goal is max pushing and damage.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Byron Cavendish on April 04, 2015, 06:02:13 am
The gun is really shit right now, no way around it. It's really sad because we waited so long for a new gun, even longer for a new heavy gun, and it can't be implemented as a balanced, viable weapon. I really am struggling to understand why a certain someone in charge of balance has not lost his job.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: David Dire on April 04, 2015, 11:17:35 am
The gun is really shit right now, no way around it. It's really sad because we waited so long for a new gun, even longer for a new heavy gun, and it can't be implemented as a balanced, viable weapon. I really am struggling to understand why a certain someone in charge of balance has not lost his job.

The devs thought the Pyra needed a Nerf, and that the extinguisher is fine as is and they need to nerf Flamer. They're utter shite at balancing, you should know this.
Title: Re: Possible Galleon Meta Broadside?
Post by: Richard LeMoon on April 04, 2015, 06:41:04 pm
The issue with using greased at further ranges is the dispersion of particles. This causes some particles to miss and others to hit balloon. I observed that the particles that hit aren't concentrated enough to push effectively. Greased can be used at further ranges, but of the particles that hit some will hit balloon and others will spread out too much to reliably push. In many cases I'd encourage using heavy clip up to 300 meters or even closer if your goal is max pushing and damage.

If you want max disruption, you almost always aim at the balloon mid to long range since it sticks out the most on most ships. I have my Mino gunners bring Lesmok, heavy, and whatever. Generally charged at close range. The reasons for charged close range instead of greased is that it only takes two shots to disrupt any ship pretty badly. Greased or burst actually have too many shots, so you end up pushing/spinning them too much. Charged gives the best armor damage close range with the best control.

*edit (needs to stop giving out his secrets)