Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => The Classroom => Q&A => Topic started by: Fleet Admiral Abrams on February 22, 2013, 08:10:36 pm
-
Hello all you Gunners out there.
I'm Mark Abrams and i'm here to answer your questions about the Gunner Class of GoiO.
Feel free to ask.
-
Ammo types?
Haven't really figured out whilch ones are good for what situations. The low-recoil seems best for long range shots but the others are a bit of a mystery still.
-
It depends on wich Gun you are going to use.
For example, if you have a weapon with a high bulletdrop (Heavy Flak,Lumberjack,Mortar) use Lesmokrounds in it to increas the range and making aiming easier for you.
Heavy Clips are good for weapons with a big bulletspread (Gatling,Carronade,Manticore,Small Flak and Banshee) all these weapons are mostly used in mid down to low range battles.
Burst Rounds are good on weapons with a big basic AoE (Manticore,Lumberjack,Mortar,Banshee) by using this rounds u can deal damage to a lot of ship components at the same time.
Incindary Rounds are uses to set ship components on fire, weapons wich are good for this ammo type should have a high rate of fire and big clip size (Manticore,gatling,Banshee).
Heatsink Rounds making your gun oviously fire proof and you get a bit more clip size for sacrificing a bit damage.
Greased Rounds sacrificing damage for a 60% higher rate of fire and 20% bigger clips, good on weapons with a good basic rate of fire ad big clips (Banshee,Gatling,Small Carronade,Mortar).
Charged Rounds sacrificing clip size and rate of fire for 30% more damage, wich is ood on all weapos with a good basic damage per shot (Heavy Flak,Lumberjack,Mercury Fieldgun).
The last one is the Lochnaga Shot it reduces your clip down to one shot removes recoil slows down the bullet and it deals 175 points of damage to gun wich fires it, but u get 150% mor dmamge out of this shot. At the momoent there are only three guns wich can really use it the Heavy Flak, Mercury Fieldgun and the Heavy Carronade.
All in all you should use the rounds to increas the benefits of the weapons and reduce the weaken of them while not sacrificing to much damage.
The rest is all about hitting the target, wich is a combination of motionprediction of your ship, the enemys ship and the bullet it self. Sounds hard but with a bit training you don't even have to think about it while shooting.
Another important point is the comunication with your captain, on some ships its hard for the captain to see if a enemy is in angle for your gun or not, (a working microphone is very useful on this point) so u can tell him/her "a bit more to the right/left/up/down".
-
Not forgetting the special circumstances ammunition..
Lesmok - very useful for increasing the range of the flamethrower
Incendiary - because ot reduces the projectile velocity it reduces the arming range for the Lumberjack and the Heavy Flak, the arming time remains comstant, but the distance travelled by the prokectile in that time is reduced. There's an equivilant range reduction for any wespon using this.
Knowing when to switch ammunition is a trick to learn. You can switch during a regular reload without penalty, but switching with a loaded or part-loaded clip will force a reload. Most weapons will benefit from two ammunition types, one for use at longer range and one for use at closer range. For example, with the gatling it's common to load with Heavy at long range and switch to Burst as the enemy closes (some Gunners will prefer Greased, Charged or Incendiary - I prefer Burst).
Long range ammunition choices tend to be Heavy Clip, Lesmok or Lochnagar.
Close range ammunition choices tend to be Burst, Charged, Incendiary or Greased.
Heatsink is a special purpose ammuntion when facing an enemy with a flamethrower that you suspect may get close enough to use it.
Choosing one long range, one close range and heatsink is a reasonable default ammunition load for a Gunner. But check the ship you're on to adapt your load to suit the ship, it's weapons and your opponents.
-
I hear that people are using the heatsink and heavy clip muzzle velocity reduction to get around the arming time on the flack and lumberjack. Has anyone gotten this to work effectively?
-
I hear that people are using the heatsink and heavy clip muzzle velocity reduction to get around the arming time on the flack and lumberjack. Has anyone gotten this to work effectively?
I typically use heavy or incendiary ammo for that. Heatsink would work too in theory, with a damage reduction though, and no ammo kills off the arming time entirely. But yes for arming time guns you typically have a long range ammo, and a short range ammo which slows the rounds down so you can let the arming kick in.
-
I've been playing for a bit, and I guess I just need more time with this, but does anyone have any tips on effectively using the Scylla?
-
I've been playing for a bit, and I guess I just need more time with this, but does anyone have any tips on effectively using the Scylla?
Apart from practicing with it (that one's a bit obvious), I'd recommend trying Lesmok on it. It makes it quite a bit easier to hit with thanks to the reduced drop.
-
I've been playing for a bit, and I guess I just need more time with this, but does anyone have any tips on effectively using the Scylla?
Practice.. and Sandbox.
-
Ha... I figured that was coming :P thanks
-
Ha... I figured that was coming :P thanks
Sorry if we can't provide much advice other than that (to be fair, I did mention Lesmok). There just really isn't much else to do. Practice, learn how much it drops, how far it goes, etc.
-
Ha... I figured that was coming :P thanks
Sorry if we can't provide much advice other than that (to be fair, I did mention Lesmok). There just really isn't much else to do. Practice, learn how much it drops, how far it goes, etc.
ha not a problem... tbh, I new I was going to have to play in sandbox for this anyway... lesmok is a good tip, and i do already implement it...
-
I've been playing for a bit, and I guess I just need more time with this, but does anyone have any tips on effectively using the Scylla?
Apart from practice and lesmok rounds I suggest flying with a captain that will drive within spitting distance of a target. The mortar may have a long max range but its effective range is about the same as a carronade.
-
what about playing engineer as a gunner?
by that I do not mean pretending to be something you're not, but how do you guys tackle repairs as a gunner? do you just try to stick to maintaining guns, or only repairing when prompted by captain? which repair tool do you bring? (I can only assume spanner or pipe wrench)
I'd like to play a dedicated gunner but my gut always forces me to tend toward minding my ship, I get the sense that a little bit of self restraint is necessary, and its certainly evident in the number of newer gunners I've seen banging away on the armor at the same time as their engineer buddy(ies).
-
I typically bring a pipe wrench with me when I gun... It's kinda the middle of the spanner and hammer... I typically repair my own weapon, and only move to repair other components on the captains request.... The main job of the gunner, is to disable the opponents components, before they do yours...
-
Yeah, as a gunner you should never be leaving your gun unless the captain specifically asks you to, or you're switching to another gun. It's generally best to take the Pipe Wrench to get a balance of repairs and rebuilds, but I sometimes go for the spanner to get the gun back up quickly and at least have some limited firing ability before an engineer fixes it. This works best on the Goldfish, since there should be an engineer available to help most of the time.
-
what about playing engineer as a gunner?
by that I do not mean pretending to be something you're not, but how do you guys tackle repairs as a gunner? do you just try to stick to maintaining guns, or only repairing when prompted by captain? which repair tool do you bring? (I can only assume spanner or pipe wrench)
I'd like to play a dedicated gunner but my gut always forces me to tend toward minding my ship, I get the sense that a little bit of self restraint is necessary, and its certainly evident in the number of newer gunners I've seen banging away on the armor at the same time as their engineer buddy(ies).
As a gunner, your job is to keep a gun firing on the enemy. It took me ages to get it in my head. I bring a pipe wrench and repair my own gun during reload. If the captain says so, Ill repair something that he dictates. The only time I leave a gun to repair something nearby is when I have no firing arc. And i say nearby because you want to get right back on that gun when arc does get there.
-
Nothing is more infuriating than a gunner that misses a chance to kill the other ship because he wanted to help whack something that the engineer was already whacking, or worse yet man a gun that isn't facing the enemy in a vain attempt to get an achievement. It's acceptable to whack something nearby in between Manticore volleys but your team cannot win if it doesn't keep up its DPS. The other ship WILL damage your ship faster than you can repair it, your job is to make sure you're doing the same to them and doing it faster. Have faith in your teammates, they'll let you know when you're needed to go into turtle mode.
It's actually why I feel a little insulted when the captain goes engineer when there's already two competent engineers, it's like they're implying you're incompetent and can't be trusted to do your own job, that you must suck so much that it's worth not being able to dodge well just to redundantly whack a part while having the ship travel in a straight line with its engines exposed.
-
It's acceptable to whack something nearby in between Manticore volleys
Even with a Manticore, a Gunner should stay on his gun during the entire reloading sequence. If he's not using Heavy Clip on the Manticore he's wasting 2/3rds of the volley at medium/long range, if he's not using Burst at close range he's not doing maximum damage. If he's not on the gun during reloading it will default to standard damage with no ammunition - unless he manages to time his dash to whack something, get back on the gun and press the hot key for his chosen ammunition all before the loading sequence ends.
There are ships where the Gunner has a bigger engineering role, the best example I can think of being the Junker. The Gunner on a Junker is relatively isolated on the lower deck and must be prepared to fix his own guns during combat phases and the main engine during recovery phases.
-
...
- unless he manages to time his dash to whack something, get back on the gun and press the hot key for his chosen ammunition all before the loading sequence ends.
...
I honestly thought of this a a standard procedure, with the long reload time I consider it a waste of time, just watching it reload. Quick return is a must though (obv).
-
I honestly thought of this a a standard procedure, with the long reload time I consider it a waste of time, just watching it reload. Quick return is a must though (obv).
The only ship where I could see this happening would be on the Galleon, in order to repair your other gun.
-
I honestly thought of this a a standard procedure, with the long reload time I consider it a waste of time, just watching it reload. Quick return is a must though (obv).
The only ship where I could see this happening would be on the Galleon, in order to repair your other gun.
Well what I meant was, that on low-speed-reload guns there's no reason not to do that. Usually even a hit with a hammer/mallet helps with repairing your gun so it's more effective during the next round. As an example we could you the usual noob friendly hwacha goldfish. Between the rounds, you can easily repair a baloon, side gun or the front gun instead of just sitting there.
-
I honestly thought of this a a standard procedure, with the long reload time I consider it a waste of time, just watching it reload. Quick return is a must though (obv).
The only ship where I could see this happening would be on the Galleon, in order to repair your other gun.
Well what I meant was, that on low-speed-reload guns there's no reason not to do that. Usually even a hit with a hammer/mallet helps with repairing your gun so it's more effective during the next round. As an example we could you the usual noob friendly hwacha goldfish. Between the rounds, you can easily repair a baloon, side gun or the front gun instead of just sitting there.
But on the Goldfish you already have two engineers repairing things. If the gunner needs to go repair the balloons, the engines, or even a side gun, then the engineers probably aren't doing their job properly. If the ship is falling apart all over, though, the captain might want you helping out with the engines or something.
-
A N-S has said, the Goldfish is the ship you're least likely to switch to repair mode whilst the Hwacha reloads. I prefer one Gunner on a Goldsfish and he stays on the gun at all times, unless the ship has no maneouvering engines - in which case his gun is highly unlikely to be able to bear unless he helps out fixing them. With two Engineers, plus the Pilot able to run back to the Balloon, the Gunner shouldn't have to concern himself much with fixing. I even prefer the Gunner to *not* use the side mounts and to leave them for an Engineer to cover.
-
This might be caused by my lack of experience, but I still don't see any downside for using the reload time to do something else. :(
Well, let's leave it at that and not spam the thread more with semi-OT discussion.
-
Well, let's leave it at that and not spam the thread more with semi-OT discussion.
That's a very good attitude to have :)
-
It's not OT, it's fairly relevant to the discussion. The reload time gives you more than enough time to get at least one repair mallet in or two spanner whacks before heading back to your seat and either keeping your current ammo or switching to the other type, and you can often get more than that if your gun is at all damaged as the reload takes even longer than normal (just remember to repair it first before running off and remember it'll start to reload faster). I do it regularly without fail and it's a skill that I think all gunners should try to learn, the more pressure you take off your engineers the less likely they'll be coming to whack something just for the hull to spontaneously implode. If you're the only one on the bottom deck of a Galleon, in fact, you can shoot BOTH guns while having them loaded with special ammo at full HP and full reload speed by just running as soon as the firing animation ends.
-
Well put, that's what I've been trying to say (did not have time to write it down completely though, can't slack that much at my job, heh)!
-
Have faith in your teammates, they'll let you know when you're needed to go into turtle mode.
That is a little much to ask for some times. I don't go gunner class because I have so little faith in some of the crews I fly with. A good engineer can make up for a bad pilot or a bad gunner, a good pilot can make up for a bad gunner (point blank engagement FTW), but a good gunner needs a good pilot and a good engineer or else they are quite ineffective.
-
I actually disagree to the gunner needing both.... a good pilot and a good gunner can win with just the AI engies.... now it's more difficult granted, but still pretty effective
-
AI makes for decent engineer, not great, but decent. I am talking about the newbie player who doesn't understand the difference between spanner and mallet or worse yet tries to repair with the buff hammer. Unless the captain some how manages to avoid getting hit, you are pretty screwed.
-
Lochnagar Shot, Heatsink Clip, Incendiary Rounds. I never use any of these ammo modifications due to all captains demanding things like Lesmok, Heavy, Charged...
How are the first three used effectively?
-
Lochnagar Shot = Potentially very high damage shot downside, is that you would need a really good captain to line up the shot that you want... In my experience, I have not found an effective use for it, as it also damages your weapon
Heatsink= This ammo reduces the possibility of your weapon catching on fire... this was a lot more effective when fire would immediately force you off the gun... still has it's uses when you see that the enemy has a lot of flamethrowers
Incendiary Rounds= Reduced damage, but the potential to catch components on fire also reduces your clip size... This is a good round to make the opponents engie run around like a chicken with their head cut off... though with an experienced engie, not really effective
-
Incendiary is still used.. I was on the receiving end of it a few matches ago, and had to ask in the Lobby which of the other side was using it as it was bugging me where all the fires were coming from. Turned out it was a gatling on a Pyra. It's an effective ammunition on the gatling - you're left contending with the armour damage and random fires across the ship.
-
Lochnagar can be used on guns that deal a lot of damage and have small clips. You can basically go for the Field Gun, the Heavy Flak, or the Heavy Carronade. I wouldn't really recommend it; charged rounds is a much better choice.
Heatsink used to be the go-to ammo whenever an enemy ship started spamming with flamers. Now with the the increased amount of stacks required to disable a gun (8, from 1), combined with the chemical spray's preventative abilities, Heatsink isn't all that useful anymore. Bring it if you have nothing else to put in your third slot, or if you're really worried about the other team's flamers.
Incendiary is good on guns with large clip sizes like the gatling, but it also has a special role on the lumberjack and flak. Since incendiary reduces the muzzle speed and the flak/lumberjack's arming time is based off of time, not distance, incendiary can be used to make those guns more effective at close range. Heavy clip is also popular for this purpose.
-
Lochnager is a very good ammo, when used properly. As said, its best on low clip size, heavy guns like the Heavy flak and Carronade, maybe Lumberjack too but never tried that yet. It requires a steady hand at the helm, and a proper aim of the gunner. The communication between the two must be spot on. If done right, it can kill-shot a lot of otherwise long drawn out fights that could turn the tide in the enemy's favor.
Heatsink used to be a requirement due to flamethrowers instantly disabling guns. Now its more of a filler or "just-in-case" ammo. Also, if your enemy goes all flamers, you can laugh at them when you blow them up with it.
Incendiary is good in only a few spots. As Sunderland stated, its a viable option for guns with arming times to effectively shorten them. Its also goos for high clip weapons that have the potential to set many fires. This includes Gatling and Hwacha.
-
I've merged the "ammo" thread into this one, since it pertains to the topic. I should have been a bit quicker, since now Helmic's reply below seems out of place.
EDIT: If anybody's wondering why all the messages from the ammo thread say I edited them, it's because I was an idiot and forgot to make it change their subject automatically, so I had to do it manually.
-
You are screwed, but as a gunner you can't do much to compensate, you really don't have much choice except to do your own job and hope they get the hang of theirs. Engineers can make excellent gunners, not quite so much the other way around. If you're flying with such a crew, it's just better to switch to engineer.
-
Burst Rounds are good on weapons with a big basic AoE (Manticore,Lumberjack,Mortar,Banshee) by using this rounds u can deal damage to a lot of ship components at the same time.
Do burst rounds increase the AoE of all weapons, or just explosive damage?
-
Burst Rounds are good on weapons with a big basic AoE (Manticore,Lumberjack,Mortar,Banshee) by using this rounds u can deal damage to a lot of ship components at the same time.
Do burst rounds increase the AoE of all weapons, or just explosive damage?
It increases the AoE in general, I'm quite certain. I don't think that any of the rounds have boosts limited to specific damage types.
-
Does blowing up your own gun with lochnagar count towards "destroy x number of guns" type achievements?
I assume not, but you never know.
-
Nah, that only works for the "rebuild x guns" type achievements.
-
Hey mark ! Since the nerf of flak and flame thrower is it wise to still be a gunner on a ship other than a galleon
-
Hey mark ! Since the nerf of flak and flame thrower is it wise to still be a gunner on a ship other than a galleon
There is already a long and argumentative thread on the perceived decline of the Gunner role..
-
Hey mark ! Since the nerf of flak and flame thrower is it wise to still be a gunner on a ship other than a galleon
There is already a long and argumentative thread on the perceived decline of the Gunner role..
yes but I wanna hear from mark about it
-
Well MasX, it depnds on wich gun you have on your ship. if you need more than two amo types for proper long and short range combat .... take gunner .. if not go engineer and increas the chance of survival for your ship.
-
What ammo should i use in a Carronade?
-
Well this depends a bit on whether you're talking about light carronade or heavy carronade.
Both guns will benefit from heavy clip, since it decreases their bullet cone thereby increasing the effective range. This also has the added benefit of letting these guns be used to destroy individual components which is a nice way to increase their disabling factor.
For the light carronade I also really enjoy using greased rounds since this dramatically increases its dps, allowing you to murder balloons rapidly and continue on causing damage directly into the hull component.
For the heavy carronade charged rounds are very effective since you increase your damage by 30% per shot without any loss in ammo. Some people also like to use incendiary, since due to it being a raycast weapon with tons of projectiles, there is an extremely high probability of starting multiple fires throughout the ship.
-
Also, lochanagar is another viable option for the heavy carronade, but in pick up games, that might require too much cohesion between the gunner and the pilot
-
Also, lochanagar is another viable option for the heavy carronade, but in pick up games, that might requires too much cohesion between the gunner and the pilot
Fixed that for you. I get strange looks when I tell people that Loch never stopped being good for the heavy carronade.
-
is it wise to still be a gunner on a ship other than a galleon
i see 3 reasons to play gunner now
1st reason: you take gunner, and just sit on your gun and do nothing but shooting. Nobody will say you that you are repairing bad.
2nd reason: when you play with AI, if you will take gunner, the AI will be engineer and you can set him to repairs.
3rd reason: you play on galleon, or hwacha spire\goldfish. This is the only gun, which requires more than one type of ammo
PS: crap, i anwered the question from the first page D:
-
Is there something like a table that shows what type of ammo is suitable for what gun and which ammo should never be used on one? I know experience will let you know which ammo to use in what situation and for what gun but I'm still a beginner and I find it useful to have it noted down instead of analyzing what kind of ammo is best to load. I made such a table myself but I'm not sure whether it's OK.
-
Is there something like a table that shows what type of ammo is suitable for what gun and which ammo should never be used on one? I know experience will let you know which ammo to use in what situation and for what gun but I'm still a beginner and I find it useful to have it noted down instead of analyzing what kind of ammo is best to load. I made such a table myself but I'm not sure whether it's OK.
Heh, I actually started making one for my own use before I saw this post.
I've made this table using the info so far provided in the topic but I would suggest looking at the first few pages and seeing the reasoning for them all as well
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkhqPy2i8jmvdFpRbDJjSTZSTm1aMTRJWmVHMXdmU1E&usp=sharing
I'll probably start editing this to my own tastes later on too and maybe add some other info to go with it
Edit: Also found this link that has a lot more info for guns as well http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/
-
I've made this table using the info so far provided in the topic but I would suggest looking at the first few pages and seeing the reasoning for them all as well
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkhqPy2i8jmvdFpRbDJjSTZSTm1aMTRJWmVHMXdmU1E&usp=sharing
Burst is the best ammo type on Artemis, and is also useful at close range for the light flak and gat. Otherwise, what I could see seemed fine (I'm not sure if it stops at burst for now or if my phone must won't let me scroll...)
-
I've made this table using the info so far provided in the topic but I would suggest looking at the first few pages and seeing the reasoning for them all as well
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkhqPy2i8jmvdFpRbDJjSTZSTm1aMTRJWmVHMXdmU1E&usp=sharing
Burst is the best ammo type on Artemis, and is also useful at close range for the light flak and gat. Otherwise, what I could see seemed fine (I'm not sure if it stops at burst for now or if my phone must won't let me scroll...)
Yep, theres more on there now, added some stuff on ships to the right. And thanks, I added on what you've said :)
-
I just noticed a minor little thing. Your description of fire damage is a little off. What you're describing is the fire stacks themselves, but the direct damage done by the particles is something else entirely. Fire damage works like any other damage type, with the multipliers shown in the damage matrix. So fire damage is good against balloons and also strong against the hull. Damage from fire stacks is dealt in addition to that.
-
Ah, thanks for pointing that out! I just quickly put it together last night and grabbed those descriptions from the game while I was doing it
-
Ah, thanks for pointing that out! I just quickly put it together last night and grabbed those descriptions from the game while I was doing it
Wait, that's what the manual says? That's a problem...
-
Wait, that's what the manual says? That's a problem...
Yeah, it was a direct quote from the manual
-
Wait, that's what the manual says? That's a problem...
Yeah, it was a direct quote from the manual
Well no wonder you made the mistake, then. Maybe I'll speak to Muse about revamping the manual some time.