Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Narayan on February 07, 2015, 12:17:43 am
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Ive been a long time player of guns of icarus, and like everyone else whose owned the game since 2013 Ive taken a few breaks here and there. When i came back the last time I noticed that the community as become a little less friendly, and a little harsher for new players. I was one of the people who didnt like playing with new guys, I in fact hated it. For me there was nothing worse than watching all of your engines go out at once while trying to make a phoenix claw turn on an enemy after burning kyro to get there. So I started using the community mechanism of friends list to ensure that I stayed with better players, however that led me to another mechanism, the crew form. Crew form in and of itself is a great thing, it allows people to form groups with competent captains beside them, and good crew under them. The problem comes when they get to be too large. You see when you get some friends and a couple of clans into a crew form, no one wants to tell people to leave, so they open up the third ship, then the forth ship. With the population of GoI being what it is especially late night EST the only way matchmaker can find 4 other crews to put against you is usually by sending newbs in. A 4 vet ship vs 4 noob ship stomp comes after this usually 12-0 or 12-2 and its a massacre. The good thing is its pretty quick, maybe a little slower when its crazy king, the bad thing is its really frustrating for the new guys, or anyone unfortunate enough to be on the new team. This has caused the noobs in general to be more hostile, and to a large extent so frustrated with the game they wont come back. Now ill grand that some of the trolling and such is from the game being so cheap now, and the type of players that brings, and I know the CA's were overwhelmed after the steam sale, however we need a new mechanic for matchmaker. At the very least we need to limit crew for to 3 ships so then at least 1 or 2 veteran ships will find there way into a 4v4. Second I know matchmaker doesnt work on rank but it needs to, no matter what you say a lvl 1-10 is never going to beat a lvl 30-43 its just not gonna happen, they dont know how to size up ships in the lobby, and they dont know the loadouts well enough for their ships, or tools. Please as a community we need to go to the devs, and limit the crew form size to 3 ships I think that will help curtail this problem, at least in the 4 v 4s, I appreciate any support I get in this.
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Well part of the problem is MM is based on win rate/etc. If Vets haven't been playing often enough, they get thrown in with noobs. Also if you are playing at a time when most vets aren't on, you'll constantly get noob groups because there isn't enough vets on to balance. Its a no win situation.
I've had it happen quite a few times to me. Honestly MM is easier to roflstomp than pre MM. Often times they leave mid match. In fact, this problem has gotten pretty bad. Even when I'm not flying I've seen noobs just rage quit within the first engagement.
Unfortunately this is the result of everyone crying for a fair system which is impossible with GOIO. MM was needed for sure for the coming PS4 version. But its a common agreement that no one wanted it in the form it is. There was a lot of good ideas which weren't used that could have alleviated the MM problems. Maybe in time.
But, I'm rather disinterested in GOIO till the next patch. The testing for it is happening tomorrow and I'm ecstatic about playing it. So much so that even if Unbirthday wasn't optional, I'd find a way to skip out and fly in the dev app. Since you are a 2013 vet, maybe you were here for 1.1 GOIO. If so, look forward to next patch. If not, look forward to next patch.
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Being a person who plays during off peak times (Euro Central day time 10am till 5pm is always off peak) I have to say the problem of 4v4 -never- happens because filling a 2v2 by itself is a problem.
If you are finding yourself with 4 full ships and only stomping pubs, consider a custom lobby 2v2 with your friends, you'll know the game is balanced and get the bonus of map/game type choice!
The whole thing cannot be blamed on match maker. Pure and simple.
The problem also exists in the people who are quitting, regardless of if they are killed by vets or newbies, they'd throw their mouse, swear.at the screen and cry on their mothers shoulder if killed.by a crew of 30-40's or 1-5's, this can't be blamed on match maker.
What happens when the pilot leaves? Most of the time the rest of the crew leave because it becomes unfair on them.
What can be done to counter this?
A more action packed and exciting tutorial which people pay attention to and don't just skip through as quick as possible.
Program an ai pilot just for tutorials, put people in the situation of being shot at and having to learn as if in a real environment, but if they're reading text no damage to anything maybe even pause.
Otherwise the kids will keep crying and 'vets' blamed for pub stomping and MM labelled as horrible.
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MM hasn't brought any more quality matches than we had before, yes. Only thing that's different is quicker lobby fill-ups and therefore quicker match starts. Quality wise you still get tons of unbalanced matches and this won't change unless population would grow substantialy.
For now, all you can do is make 2v2 crew forms. I'm not sure atm, but I think after match when you're thrown back to crew form it opens up for 4 ships, which is what you described and is indeed annoying.
@Kamoba
I don't think more detailed tutorials would help much. Of course it's nice thing to have, but if player is unwilling to learn from other players, then why would he want to learn from tutorial? Besides if tutorial would be too long and detailed, a lot of them would probably just get annoyed and shut the game down before even finishing it.There is no need for better tutorials, we have tons of CAs and other folks that are eager to help, but too few will accept that help.
I remember when I first started. Even after finishing tutorial I had no idea what the actual fuck. Ok, so this is for repair, this for rebuild, press that button to mount guns, good, but what now? How to be effective and kill enemy? No tutorial will tell you that. You have to look for players help or guides. So, that's what I did. I went to look for guides. And even after reading carefully that guide I forgot a lot of stuff. I thought "Man, there are so many ammo types, I already forgot which is good for what weapon and what weapon is good for what. And that's what you learn only from gameplay.
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That's very true if the player does not want to learn or if they have an attitude where they think they know it all and push others away because of that they'll not get far in the game or community.
Perhaps the problem is not in the tutorials and game but in the target audience.
Perhaps the advertising team could target less to FPS gamers and look at the micromanagement RPS tactical players who're more likely to take the time out to learn how to play the game and pay attention to loadouts in lobbies rather than screaming in their microphones: "Ready up ready up ready up!"
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(http://i.imgur.com/JbEzq1S.jpg)
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Salute for a GoI meme!
That should really be a contest, funniest GoI memes....
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Salute for a GoI meme!
That should really be a contest, funniest GoI memes....
(http://i.imgur.com/7jIetZ0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JiwaJxo.jpg)
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Those images are not accurate. 0% health looks a lot different. Should be >0%-33%. (still got a chuckle, though).
0%=
(http://i.imgur.com/BkutCOA.jpg)
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Those images are not accurate. 0% health looks a lot different. Should be >0%-33%. (still got a chuckle, though).
It wasn't Geo that made the images with the 0% - 33% part, but somebody else form our clan and I told him the exact same thing, I did!
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Those images are not accurate. 0% health looks a lot different. Should be >0%-33%. (still got a chuckle, though).
It wasn't Geo that made the images with the 0% - 33% part, but somebody else form our clan and I told him the exact same thing, I did!
Also the fish in the picture is a siamese fighting fish, not a goldfish :P
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Junker 100% - 66%
(http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/630790563192948945/2E1A9663BA89F3301AB21BC4CA9F0CD416124794/)
(http://coastalcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/abandonned-vessel.jpg)
Junker 65% - 33%
(http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/630790563192956428/19959ED0D369D142C1E16F118646C129BFE47294/)
(http://coastalcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/abandonned-vessel.jpg)
Junker 32% - 01%
(http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/630790563192962878/A1C070AE88A0944CEE3114AF31FACC5CACB8B4FF/)
(http://coastalcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/abandonned-vessel.jpg)
Junker 0%
(http://gunsoficarus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/521976_261377020629501_1362815877_n1.jpg)
(http://coastalcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/abandonned-vessel.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/dqDdkF9.png)
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at this pace we'll be able to kill the community with bad memes in no time at all which will solve the other problem of match making killing it
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From my point of view what does more damage to the player base is public lobby stomping.
Veterans see the opposition is really and mean really out-classed but do they offer to help or balance it? No they just stomp for the XP and leave.
Ok a few matches here and there but relentlessly pub stomping.... Well chaps where is your honour when a lvl 40+ pilot has a pyra and the match is so unbalanced then why does the pilot proceed with caution?
Pity the poor low players and a spanner in your engines to all who just pub stomp.
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From my point of view what does more damage to the player base is public lobby stomping.
Veterans see the opposition is really and mean really out-classed but do they offer to help or balance it? No they just stomp for the XP and leave.
Ok a few matches here and there but relentlessly pub stomping.... Well chaps where is your honour when a lvl 40+ pilot has a pyra and the match is so unbalanced then why does the pilot proceed with caution?
Pity the poor low players and a spanner in your engines to all who just pub stomp.
No one stomps for XP...................... People just want to play with their friends, and without the frustration of having to order around crew that wont't listen anyway. And i'm someone who often pleads for fair matches, but other times i just don't care. My favorite way to balance has always just been to not fly pyramidions and strong meta builds. Fun for everyone.
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From my point of view what does more damage to the player base is public lobby stomping.
Veterans see the opposition is really and mean really out-classed but do they offer to help or balance it? No they just stomp for the XP and leave.
Ok a few matches here and there but relentlessly pub stomping.... Well chaps where is your honour when a lvl 40+ pilot has a pyra and the match is so unbalanced then why does the pilot proceed with caution?
Pity the poor low players and a spanner in your engines to all who just pub stomp.
while I agree with this for the most part, from my experience if a team Is truly stompin, it is not uncommon for teams to split and even the game slightly. It was just yesterday I came up against a full SREP team, and being the only player on my team over lvl 15, we got slaughtered, though I was surprised that after that match SREP were kind enough to just say 'GG' and completely swapped the teams to make for a really close second match. I have seen things like this happen fairly regularly but this is just an example.
After all pub stomping is no fun for anyone, stomper or the stomped
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From my point of view what does more damage to the player base is public lobby stomping.
Veterans see the opposition is really and mean really out-classed but do they offer to help or balance it? No they just stomp for the XP and leave.
Ok a few matches here and there but relentlessly pub stomping.... Well chaps where is your honour when a lvl 40+ pilot has a pyra and the match is so unbalanced then why does the pilot proceed with caution?
Pity the poor low players and a spanner in your engines to all who just pub stomp.
My answer to that will be as simple as 'Because that's the only thing we can do.'. Skill gaps even in the competitive scene are so huge that there is no way to play a game without "pub stomping" for certain people anymore. Am I just to mindlessly roam the game for hours until I find, with the ridiculously low population of Goi in certain or if not all hours of the day - a match that is semi evenly matched? The answer is no. I will play the game, whenever I have the time to, and not worry about pub stomping. Because if I will, I won't play the game at all.
And I raise to you another issue: What if those teammates of yours who are overly stacking the lobby, your friends, or clan mates who simply want to play with you like every other group of people I know in this, or any other game. We could split our ships with the two sides, but that takes the together in playing together, and it just ends up to be a contest of who has the better ally. We could just stay together most of the time, and wait for scramble to scramble on the next match. Which is what we end up usually doing, so we can at least have one match together. OH, but hold up one second, MatchMaking introduces an amazing feature that you could just send everyone to the flipping crew formations after one stupid match, and scramble can never scramble - and then the cycle continues.
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Guys this was just an observation.
Not to be taken as a slight on all high ranking players. There are some whom shall remain nameless who are relentless at it.
Has gotten to the point now, where am bored of flying with some, as that is all it is. Low level laughs. But when some come up against lvl 20 pilots and low level crew, then they collectively start to sweat. Admittedly some games can be fun. But most times it is just not a sporting chance. Kind of like letting wild animals lose in a nappy filled kindergarten.
Players do go public match stomping for xp. As each win over another team, no matter how good or bad the opponent. The winning players Gains 10x the amount of xp as a loss does.
This above value may have to be re-quoted as myself asked this question in a Dev fireside chat, re-new levelling after the Achievement way only was changed.
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Pub stomping is not a thing, as much as it appears to be...
Only yesterday in a three vs three did me and my ally try to balance the match only to be told by the lower levels all against us... "Yeh rite woteva u ***in d***s we r not fallin for dat"
So taking less than lethal loadouts we still managed a 7-0 win only to receive more match chat abuse.
Make levels visible people leave because its unfair, while not visible they assume they're in even matches.
As said as well people just like to play with other people they know.. The skill gap is unfortunate which is unfortunate.
However I have notices these "unfair" matches often lead to "vets" taking ships they're less comfortable with, today an example, Me, Enoch and DrZan as pilots went triple squid on an unbalanced match, my squid triple gatling, Zan had double Flak and Enoch had disable carronades... End result 7-4 win to us.. (Because the galleon piloted by the lols was a very worthy enemy! <3 the lols!)
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From my point of view what does more damage to the player base is public lobby stomping.
Veterans see the opposition is really and mean really out-classed but do they offer to help or balance it? No they just stomp for the XP and leave.
Ok a few matches here and there but relentlessly pub stomping.... Well chaps where is your honour when a lvl 40+ pilot has a pyra and the match is so unbalanced then why does the pilot proceed with caution?
Pity the poor low players and a spanner in your engines to all who just pub stomp.
I've no love for noobs.
They frustrate me for their lack of common sense and everytime I hear "Dude it's only a game." and "Try hard" for saying things like SHOOT THE GUNS AND REPAIR THE BASIC COMPONENTS NEEDED TO KEEP FLYING AND WE CAN'T SHOOT GUNS WITHOUT ARC.
It kinda removes all remorse for my cleansing of the dirty casuals. I want to get better, I want to teach people to get better.
I can do neither with a guy that refuses to accept that his 5 merc gun mobula can only shoot one gun at a time and won't believe me until I jump on the other side as a one man munker and laugh as I mine him as a stationary target that his puny crew can't stop because AI are set to repair.
I simply refuse to give wins with my "try hard" ability to people that I feel do not deserve the win they did not themselves work with me for. Nor lose to my veteran peers for incompetence that is not my own.
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From my point of view what does more damage to the player base is public lobby stomping.
Veterans see the opposition is really and mean really out-classed but do they offer to help or balance it? No they just stomp for the XP and leave.
Ok a few matches here and there but relentlessly pub stomping.... Well chaps where is your honour when a lvl 40+ pilot has a pyra and the match is so unbalanced then why does the pilot proceed with caution?
Pity the poor low players and a spanner in your engines to all who just pub stomp.
I've no love for noobs.
They frustrate me for their lack of common sense and everytime I hear "Dude it's only a game." and "Try hard" for saying things like SHOOT THE GUNS AND REPAIR THE BASIC COMPONENTS NEEDED TO KEEP FLYING AND WE CAN'T SHOOT GUNS WITHOUT ARC.
It kinda removes all remorse for my cleansing of the dirty casuals. I want to get better, I want to teach people to get better.
I can do neither with a guy that refuses to accept that his 5 merc gun mobula can only shoot one gun at a time and won't believe me until I jump on the other side as a one man munker and laugh as I mine him as a stationary target that his puny crew can't stop because AI are set to repair.
I simply refuse to give wins with my "try hard" ability to people that I feel do not deserve the win they did not themselves work with me for. Nor lose to my veteran peers for incompetence that is not my own.
Stop. Please.
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...I can do neither with a guy that refuses to accept that his 5 merc gun mobula can only shoot one gun at a time....
Two. Noob.
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I don't get the claim that veteran players "stomp for XP". Why the hell would I want XP? My levels ain't going any higher. We want balanced matches as much as everyone, believe me, but it's not always easy to find one, especially since matchmaking has limited our abilities to manually find and balance lobbies (and then when we DO come up with one, it kicks us out after three matches). More often than not, I see veteran players offering advice, trying to swap ships with the other team to balance things out, or otherwise generally be helpful, but more often than not you get expletives hurled at you or are just ignored, then unsurprisingly the match is unbalanced and half the other team ragequits after their first death. Are the more experienced players really to blame for this?
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-snipped-
You want to get better? Play with your clan. Play in arranged Skrim matches.
Stop playing pub matches, as they're driving your blood pressure to dangerous levels.
You also want to get better? Stop achievement trolling. buffing engines and ignoring repairs because of your achievement makes you look a fool, insulting the people by not caring about their game also makes you a fool.
Stop trolling lobbies with comments such as "This match is not worth my time noobs" Just keep your mouth shut and leave the lobby without a word, you'll not be missed.
Stop telling new players in match chat they're idiots or noobs or fools in an attempt to humiliate them infront of the other players in the game, you make yourself look a troll.
Stop raging the forums with your superiority issues. You're no better a person than the people you're playing with and you need to get your head around that Ceresbane.
Yes new players are frustrating and yes many of them don't want to learn but if it is effecting you so much, don't play with them!
Me Waffle, DrZan Enochh and others have recently started doing custom lobbies during off peak times as we're growing a group of friends who like to play together...
Stop being such a vile person and maybe one day you'll be invited.
Nor lose to my veteran peers for incompetence that is not my own.
This has yet to be seen
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Yet to be seen, by you. But seen by plenty of others, so play more?
Scrims? I just came from one with csm and ravens against spqr.
Achievement trolling? buffing engines (haven't touched a buff kit in ages, unless asked), ignoring repairs (unless you mean the times when a noob pilot spams moonshine resulting in constantly destroying his own engines, unless I simply say. nop. unless you stop I aint fixing it) I haven't even been with a game against you in ages, let alone on a ship with you to know whether I am running proper chem and repair cycles (which I do).
As for achievements, they are at the stage where the majority of them are about winning and often times in specific strenuous conditions. So I don't know what you're smoking by frankly your info is wrong. Barring that one time I needed chute vent, but that was going to be a loss anyway (no spreading of vets on that match I tell you now), both my noob crew and me got some mutual gain tho in exchange for one salty guy which I frankly say what did you expect to do against them with THAT?
As for your quaint little games? Not interested. Hence the lack of me joining them or even showing of any intent to join them. There are other vets I play with you know.
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The argument about veterans (intentionally) stomping noobs in pubs for exp is just so darn funny.
We just want balanced matches like everyone else. For me it's no fun winning 5-0 with crews <lvl15. People who have spent some time in a game know that levels aren't that important after all and they surely aren't as desperate as you suggest to get them.
Playing around noobs is never fun. Neither when they are on your ship, on your team or on enemy team (I had moments when I wondered why enemy ship isn't acting logically, then I hit tab and go "Oh, they got a lvl2 engie... right"). GOIO is a game where cooperation is the most overpowered thing and just having a crew of people you generally know and who at least 'try' to do their job and 'listen' to orders - you get much more chances. But we all know the pain of a novice going on your ship and ruining everything.
As many times I've said - veterans are not cared about good enough by Devs in general. They can't have fun in pubs and they can't be protected from noobs. As we see - Devs created matchmaker despite many people questioning it and statistics show* that it didn't turned out well for them.
*http://steamcharts.com/app/209080#1y
Also this, fully agree:
I've no love for noobs.
They frustrate me for their lack of common sense and everytime I hear "Dude it's only a game." and "Try hard" for saying things like SHOOT THE GUNS AND REPAIR THE BASIC COMPONENTS NEEDED TO KEEP FLYING AND WE CAN'T SHOOT GUNS WITHOUT ARC.
It kinda removes all remorse for my cleansing of the dirty casuals. I want to get better, I want to teach people to get better.
I can do neither with a guy that refuses to accept that his 5 merc gun mobula can only shoot one gun at a time and won't believe me until I jump on the other side as a one man munker and laugh as I mine him as a stationary target that his puny crew can't stop because AI are set to repair.
I simply refuse to give wins with my "try hard" ability to people that I feel do not deserve the win they did not themselves work with me for. Nor lose to my veteran peers for incompetence that is not my own.
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Yet to be seen, by you. But seen by plenty of others, so play more?
Scrims? I just came from one with csm and ravens against spqr.
Achievement trolling? buffing engines (haven't touched a buff kit in ages, unless asked), ignoring repairs (unless you mean the times when a noob pilot spams moonshine resulting in constantly destroying his own engines, unless I simply say. nop. unless you stop I aint fixing it) I haven't even been with a game against you in ages, let alone on a ship with you to know whether I am running proper chem and repair cycles (which I do).
As for achievements, they are at the stage where the majority of them are about winning and often times in specific strenuous conditions. So I don't know what you're smoking by frankly your info is wrong. Barring that one time I needed chute vent, but that was going to be a loss anyway (no spreading of vets on that match I tell you now), both my noob crew and me got some mutual gain tho in exchange for one salty guy which I frankly say what did you expect to do against them with THAT?
As for your quaint little games? Not interested. Hence the lack of me joining them or even showing of any intent to join them. There are other vets I play with you know.
Don't want to be overly rude here, but you weren't even on the team with your own clan in the SCS today. Just take a chill pill, man. You're not God. Your a decent player, nothing more and no one owes you anything
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Funny because since I was about level 17 I've yet to see you on a winning side... Even when you have reliable crews...
I'll say no more.
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More drama, please.
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This thread is effectively stuck with the same arguments ("Vets are pub stomping!", "But we don't want to pub stomp, we do try to balance!", "Sometimes it cannot be helped so I play the damn game!") and some player vs player personal fighting, which you shouldn't do on the forum, because being nice is the Meta.
My solution for the "vets pub stomping 'n stuff"-thing is that all (semi-)experienced players stop playing the game for a month the next time a sale comes out. So all these new players can enjoy the time with each other like happy little bunnies. And if it is just to see if the vet pub stomping is actually at fault for killing the community or to see if an actual new playerbase can establish itself.
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To Maxy
1. I don't know how you haven't realized that commanding people to do things doesn't work after like months and months of complaining why they aren't listening.
2. Your level doesn't mean much when you treat people like that, the higher your number isn't going to mean they have to respect and revere your every command.
3. Believe it or not, it is a lot of fun to learn things by yourself. When you order noobs like that, you rob them of both their learning experience and you treat them like a machine. No one wants to be someone's puppet but they'll support a puppet master who is fun to be with.
4. Displaying that you're mad and pissed off by the fact that no one is obeying your orders is going to encourage them to piss you off even more. People don't have a lot of patience for enjoyment and they'll work with you if you show them how quick and rewarding a win is.
5. If you aren't willing to co-operate with people that you feel don't deserve to play with you, then don't play with them or at least avoid them for a while. It is not healthy to be venting all the time and no one will feel sorry for you if you keep doing it.
6. You'll be surprised at the amount of information people learn when you give them time to take it all in themselves. Even encouragement is detrimental if fed too much. If you want to teach people to "get gud", let them learn the slow way (by shutting up and letting them learn that their actions costed them the enjoyment of the entire team) it is much more effective.
7. THIS THREAD WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY, READ THE FUCKING MOOD. I swear your temper is infectious. Did you know that people want to hunt you down? I'm not actually against them myself and I want to feel ashamed of that. Come on man, lighten up a little.
8. Noob stomping is a thing, and the stacked side isn't entirely to blame for the ordeal. People don't want to lose for stupid reasons. There are some good folks that want to even things up and honestly I think it's better than it was before.
To everyone
Can we all get back to posting shitty memes? If we continue with the Drama I'm going back to the Dark Souls Community
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(https://harpandclay.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/mine.jpg)
Overwatch Clan meeting...
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More drama, please.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-reD5LXzUqi8/VGIzpnZ2mSI/AAAAAAAAgqU/GMpq8z1aSCw/s1600/sorre%2BIm%2Blate%2Bhad%2Bto%2Bget%2Benough%2Bpopcorn%2Bfor%2Ball%2Bof%2Bus.jpg)
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Yes new players are frustrating and yes many of them don't want to learn but if it is effecting you so much, don't play with them!
Let me just point something here.
So you're advocating that new players are frustrating and yet you attempt at some moral high ground that you can somehow play with them.
When in fact you mention vet names you implicitly play with on offpeak times to avoiding playing with them, and inevitability against them.
And its offpeak times, so not many vets are on (if any- and for not very long). No way oh great saint Kamo can indefinitely resist the siren's call and ram his own self righteousness with his own girth.
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Yes new players are frustrating and yes many of them don't want to learn but if it is effecting you so much, don't play with them!
Let me just point something here.
So you're advocating that new players are frustrating and yet you attempt at some moral high ground that you can somehow play with them.
When in fact you mention vet names you implicitly play with on offpeak times to avoiding playing with them, and inevitability against them.
And its offpeak times, so not many vets are on (if any- and for not very long). No way oh great saint Kamo can indefinitely resist the siren's call and ram his own self righteousness with his own girth.
Oh I don't play with the vets for the sole purpose of avoiding the new players to avoid frustration, that's just your assumption. We play the custom lobbies to avoid "stomping" and for balanced matches. I still play with new players and try to teach the ones who listen, if they don't listen just let them do their thing.
We all get frustrated by new players, yes, its the learning curve of the game and where possible.it should be avoided to just stay together against them.
My suggestions to you are that you personally are getting far too upset by playing with them, so I give examples of what me and others do in the hopes you'll open your eyes and see that doing the same thing repeatedly is not working for you. You should try to play more socially and show less hostility towards people in general.
I've offered this advice to you in the past and yet still your reputation of being someone who does nothing but attack new players for being just that does not change, in fact you post it admittedly on the forums, if they do not listen to you, you take bully builds for the purpose of teaching them a lesson, thus making you one person who purposefully stomps new players by your own words.
When we first met you was not so bad but over time I've seen you change from being someone I once considered a respectable player to someone who does nothing but complain about new players and makes little in the ways to improve your own playing experience.
Now please excuse me while I shove my self righteousness up my girth.
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(http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2012/351/7/3/drama_llama_retires_by_panda_chan164-d5obrf6.jpg)
I like some new players. I also dislike some new players. Pretty much the same way I feel about old players. Just have to play with them to sort em out. I have had a lot of fun on clueless ships, as well as frustration on 'vet' ships. *shrug* Take them as you get them.
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1st, is Ceresbane - Maximillian Jazzhand now? That's a cool name. (I seriously think so. Pls, don't take offense).
2nd, I'm a real fresh player (just hit 300 matches), and I've gone against vet players, usually while captaining a crew of fresh players (two-digit matches). Somehow, Rider metamidions can outmaneuver everything and Cake mines seem to be 100% accurate. Competitive players in pub matches are pretty OP. Vets do pub stomp.
3rd, However, I enjoy going off against a crew of vets. I enjoy putting together a crew of random novices and challenging the bosses. There's a certain satisfaction in teaching my lvl 2 gunner to disable a mine launcher, getting my lvl 6 engi to out-repair the super accurate artemises, and attempting to out-position the best positioners in-game.
In conclusion, I enjoy seeing stacked lobbies filled with pros and clans. I'm clanless and inexperienced. There's a certain exciting challenge and honor in playing against the best teams.
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3. Believe it or not, it is a lot of fun to learn things by yourself. When you order noobs like that, you rob them of both their learning experience and you treat them like a machine. No one wants to be someone's puppet but they'll support a puppet master who is fun to be with.
When I am captain I treat every one like a machine and when I am crew I expect to be treated like a machine. There in lies the fun of this game: To be a cog in a greater machine. To know that others are depending on you to do your part so that they can do theirs. To watch complete strangers work together and succeed together. The special little snow flakes who want to do it their way are the ones out of place here.
As for stacked lobbies, I will admit they are becoming more of a problem since Match Making was introduced. In my opinion the best period in GOI history for even matches were during the persistent lobby default ship shuffle period. This was because while balancing was done via ship and not player. It challenged veteran players step up their game without frustrating them with repeat losses that they have no control over.
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3. Believe it or not, it is a lot of fun to learn things by yourself. When you order noobs like that, you rob them of both their learning experience and you treat them like a machine. No one wants to be someone's puppet but they'll support a puppet master who is fun to be with.
When I am captain I treat every one like a machine and when I am crew I expect to be treated like a machine. There in lies the fun of this game: To be a cog in a greater machine. To know that others are depending on you to do your part so that they can do theirs. To watch complete strangers work together and succeed together. The special little snow flakes who want to do it their way are the ones out of place here.
As for stacked lobbies, I will admit they are becoming more of a problem since Match Making was introduced. In my opinion the best period in GOI history for even matches were during the persistent lobby default ship shuffle period. This was because while balancing was done via ship and not player. It challenged veteran players step up their game without frustrating them with repeat losses that they have no control over.
There's a difference to being the part of a working machine that gets oils and repairs than a machine that gets threatened to be melted down or broken for scrap parts because.it was not given the chance to warm up, which os where I believe Noirs point originates from. :)
Now stop writing on the forums and get back to work!
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There's a difference to being the part of a working machine that gets oils and repairs than a machine that gets threatened to be melted down or broken for scrap parts because.it was not given the chance to warm up, which os where I believe Noirs point originates from. :)
Now stop writing on the forums and get back to work!
A snowflake will not function as a cog no matter how much oil and repairs you give it, where as a well made cog will function even without oil and under a lot of pleasure. I understand the importance of working with unfinished cogs so that we can have well made cogs in the future. Sometimes the best way to do this is to jam it in the machine and work it until all the bits that don't fit fall off.
Now that I have tortured that metaphor for all it is worth, I can go back to work.
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Saluted for keeping the metaphor :)
And in many ways you're right, it all boils down to technique at the end of the day :)
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I'll just leave it here
(http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png)
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All right lets continue to reorient this wayward train.
4v4 Pub stompings are a problem, and I often would prefer to be playing 2v2. If you are reading this and we just kicked the crap out of a novice lobby 4v4 then my vote what to do next is almost always 2v2 matches (sometimes I just want to Crazy King, but don't be surprised if I join the enemy and try and drag some of you with me). Okay so sometimes I want a good 4v4 match though and I want to fly with at least a couple of communicative allies. Often I will join these things are part of the doomed opposition (especially crazy king where one well positioned squid can make the enemies life miserable). Sometimes I'm not in the mood.
For me the fun part of 4v4 is often the increased difficulty of commanding and controlling 4 ships at once. I've had great games with low level ally pilots against stacked lobbies just because those allies, while noobish were willing to listen and position their ships (and the stacked side of stacked lobbies never see that first engagement coming). A partial solution to this problem might be for more experienced folks to embrace this challenge.
Unfortunately I can see a few reason why more don't. Some players are asses, and I think more novice players are asses because the co-operative element of GoI tends to filter out uncooperative players. There is a correlation between being an ass, and being uncooperative. Being an ass leads to being uncooperative, being uncooperative leads to poorly positioned and run ships, poorly positioned and run ships lead to defeat, defeat leads to going back to first person shooters. Something, something, dark side.
That said other novice players don't have the importance of communication drilled into them and they don't understand why they are losing. I would like better tutorials, especially ones that made it clear losing and not working as part of a team are basically homologous. That said if you think that will be a magic bullet you are dreaming, but I don't think anyone here is so deluded. This is a complex problem which will need lots of small complex solutions.
At the moment new players think they are losing to experienced pilots with a ship full of novices because that pilot is somehow magically making the ship better. Experienced pilots make a difference, but they aren't magic, they are just keeping their crews informed and managing expectations sensibly. The 40+ next to the name don't make the ship turn no faster.
I don't think it is an obligation (if you don't want to go through the patient process of teaching different folks effectively then don't), but some players are very good at getting the novices up to speed, when they are willing to listen. I also judge these teachers by how effectively that can work with varied raw materials. Some players I know will generally do badly with a random selection of novice players. They can only teach certain types of folk. Others seem able to work with almost anyone. Kamoba would be an example of a pilot I still consider a threat even with a novice crew I don't recognize.
I don't think the problem is the matchmaker either, I think the matchmaker just doesn't and cannot solve the problem of balancing vet heavy matches.
Certainly this is true for my experiences. I have half the regulars friended now and I never get invited to a lobby I couldn't see anyway. If I wanted to ignore matchmaker and do things the way they were before I can. Nothing has really changed for me. I also suspect that while matchmaker utterly fails when faced with vets it is very successful with novice players, especially during sales when it probably helps with player retention. You cant balance 8 of the 12 veteran players online with the remaining 4 already in a match however hard you try, but you can balance 600 novices.
I don't think by and large vets intentionally go pub stomping, at least not often. Experienced players always seem happy when the matchmaker actually gives up a lobby with 16 experienced folks. It is like Christmas, in that it is fun and only comes once a year. Rest of the time you just do what you can. The problem there isn't much I can do. If I have a lobby where my allies are new but polite (perhaps even asking for advice), one of the other ships is responsive to suggestions and the third ship is crewed by morons who react to players saying things like "you probably don't want two gunners" with "shut up your teh ghey" then I already know the match outcome and there is nothing anyone, not me, or matchmaker or Kevin Bacon can do to fix it. Whatever team they are on will get crushed.
As to Rowho's point about pubstomping for XP. I really don't know anyone who does that, maybe there are some, his claim just requires one to exist so I can believe that. I always observe other reasons for this kind of behaviour. I think vets pub stomp because they want to play with their friends and are sick of uncommunicative allies, of players that don't play as a team. 4v4 is very bad for this because if there are 2-3 open slots I know odds are very good one of those open slots is going to be filled either by someone who is silent, or someone who is an abusive ass. Rowho, you and I have intentionally balanced such lobbies in the past and we suffered exactly this fate.
As for how to deal with novice players who are asses. I'm pretty sure trolling them is not the answer. If someone gets abusive I might join your enemy and aim to make the next game quick and brutal, but I'm not about to intentionally sabotage you as your ally. First it wastes my time and second that would be a breach of the community standard, and for a good reason.
Some have said playing with novices is never fun. This may be true for them, but I have lots of fun with new players. I've had frustrating times too. We all have different objectives when we play the game, and I think we are all a bit prone to assume those objectives are universal. They are not. I get a kick out of teaching a new player how to engi the main deck of a pyra. Some folks get frustrated the first time someone hits the main engine from the poop deck. Neither experience / reaction is invalid, but how we go about obtaining or avoiding those experiences matters.
As to my philosophy with the novices. They are like a car, no wait, this isn't Slashdot. I like to think there are two different approaches and you need a bit of both. You need to treat people like people with aims and desires and goals. And you need to treat them like cogs in a machine. You are trying to let everyone be their own type of cog that will work well together.
No wait, I have a better one. Novice players are like metaphors, and you need to torture them until...
No wait, that is definitely wrong.
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Some actual quotes:
"Don't fly mobula, it sucks!"
1: Why did you declined that loadout?
2: I don't want to fly mobula!
1: Leave then, I don't want to waste your or time
2: No, change the mobula! Take galleon!
(at this moment I wasn't sure whether he is fucking trolling me or serious; taking count on levels (1-4-3) he was serious though...)
(the whole match we were shit-talking an idiot for not accepting the loadout, not obeying orders and generally being more stupid than AI bot, which led us to a VERY costy victory)
Me: I hate people not giving a fuck...
waffleghost: I know, I know Schwalbe-
that_guy: You see, we won
Me: YOU HAVE MIC?!
waffleghost: Have you heard everything?
that_guy: Yes
waffleghost: Then why were you not listening? Why you brought mallet, wrench and buff? Why you brought incindiaries for banshee?
that_guy: I got what this ship needed, not what you wanted!
waffleghost: That's ridiculous.
that_guy: Oh, you definitely know better you faggot.
waffleghost: ...maybe because I'm a 45 level captain, with few thousand matches played.
that_guy: [leaves]
Me: Thank God he left.
waffleghost: ...Had he just reported me...?
(I explained them, I REALLY EXPLAINED, what is the tactic, and why it makes you survive if handled right)
(They still attack in absurd manner leading to 4v1 situations)
Me: I need spots.
1: Fuck you, you don't even help us
Me: It's not like I constantly break some bastards gun or armour so you can survive a bit longer.
1: (reports me after)
(match starts, MrDisaster and his brother are aboard and we have 2 level gunner)
that_guy: (takes the helm of my spire right after the beginning)
(We are begging him for 5 minutes to leave)
MrDisaster Fuck this, I'm out [leaves]
(this might've been last match of MrDisaster by the way)
Conclusion: For every single comprehending and eager to learn player you encounter 20 insolent, arrogant brainless morons.
And people are so surprised, that some higher level players have usually lust for scrub's blood, and just NEED a proper, brutal stomping.
I'm not saying that flying with noobs can't be fun. It can be, I remember my second match as captain, when players after the second match were better cooperating with me than most players I had encountered. And it's always a pleasure to have one smart, good working scrub onboard. But FFS, mostly it's a torture.
And everytime I see bunch of scrubs beating shit out of high level players, I say it was a good game.
It's a pity that those good scrubs meet fucked up scrubs which causes them to abbandon the game.
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Schwalbe, yes you are right there are many.. Oh so many rude CoD players, but that's the target audience of.the marketing...
I've been into steampunk, fantasy and other such for years and have always been on the look out for a game like guns of Icarus... Yet I only heard about it by its second birthday because when people search for team based games or steampunk games guns is one of the last to pop up...
Search for FPS amongst the wreckage of CoD and Battlefield, somewhere in dead mans land is Guns of Icarus, where people from the aforementioned FPS games drop into our land...
So why don't muse target the returning player and change their marketing?...
Sales, larger audience, general unawareness that their product is not reaching out to the right market? No idea, non-the-less the games marketing does drag in the worst of the worst and we can only hope to grab the good eggs before the rotten ones turn them..
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Sorry for double post:
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You want to get better? Play with your clan. Play in arranged Skrim matches.
Stop playing pub matches, as they're driving your blood pressure to dangerous levels.
You also want to get better? Stop achievement trolling. buffing engines and ignoring repairs because of your achievement makes you look a fool, insulting the people by not caring about their game also makes you a fool.
Stop trolling lobbies with comments such as "This match is not worth my time noobs" Just keep your mouth shut and leave the lobby without a word, you'll not be missed.
Stop telling new players in match chat they're idiots or noobs or fools in an attempt to humiliate them infront of the other players in the game, you make yourself look a troll.
Stop raging the forums with your superiority issues. You're no better a person than the people you're playing with and you need to get your head around that Ceresbane.
Yes new players are frustrating and yes many of them don't want to learn but if it is effecting you so much, don't play with them!
Me Waffle, DrZan Enochh and others have recently started doing custom lobbies during off peak times as we're growing a group of friends who like to play together...
Stop being such a vile person and maybe one day you'll be invited.
Nor lose to my veteran peers for incompetence that is not my own.
This has yet to be seen
You totaly have my salute Kamoba.
Ceresbane... because I fucking refuse to use that Maximillian name... you NEVER have fun from playing, even if playing with good crews. You're always so fucking bloated. I understand your point of view, but if you don't see how fatal this might be, then sorry, go to hell. It's not like I'm not using sarcasm during my games, but you do so constantly, so fucking infernally angsty. Dude, one day your own bloody blood presure will kill you.
When I'm usually sad when a player stop playing, I'd open a bloody champaign, and party like not myself (I have my life of hermit, pariah, free from most common addictions and I feel good with that), seeing you finally kick the metaphorical bucket of your gaming.
And I'm fully aware that some may say the same about me. I'm taunting other players, aye. But rarely I'm doing it in such a way as you do - CERESBANE (seriously, I don't understand switching name stuff, it's like having some damn anonimity issues. But it's not my business) - rude and so... classless. You'd answer some shit like "whoa, we'll see at the battlefield, hurr DUURRR, I have some games to win, bla bla". Is it a bird? Is it a junker? No! That's that flying fuck I don't give.
Patience and humbleness are in value for me. Especially in this game.
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Right, so before this thread gets locked, I would like to chime in on "noobs"
Literally an hour ago I had a player with zero matches played and a player with 30 matches played crewing on my galleon. Neither of them had been on a galleon before and started out in the lobby as dual gunners and terrible loadouts. I asked one to go engi and he did. The other one I gave some ammo and a brief explanation of what those types in on a hwacha. Before long they were both bottom decking like pros. A little bit of instruction goes a long way, especially if you treat them like people instead of pests. Last night, I met two very new players who were super cool and took instructions well and liked the music I was playing, so I asked if they wanted to join my clan, and they did. We now have two brand new friends that I wouldn't have made, had I taken the "rude, entitled 'vet' " approach.
In short, sure new players can be stupid and rude, but take a minute to explain stuff like a decent human being. I've had my share of uncontrollable noobs and it hasn't soiled me to the idea of helping new players along
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Right, so before this thread gets locked, I would like to chime in on "noobs"
Literally an hour ago I had a player with zero matches played and a player with 30 matches played crewing on my galleon. Neither of them had been on a galleon before and started out in the lobby as dual gunners and terrible loadouts. I asked one to go engi and he did. The other one I gave some ammo and a brief explanation of what those types in on a hwacha. Before long they were both bottom decking like pros. A little bit of instruction goes a long way, especially if you treat them like people instead of pests. Last night, I met two very new players who were super cool and took instructions well and liked the music I was playing, so I asked if they wanted to join my clan, and they did. We now have two brand new friends that I wouldn't have made, had I taken the "rude, entitled 'vet' " approach.
In short, sure new players can be stupid and rude, but take a minute to explain stuff like a decent human being. I've had my share of uncontrollable noobs and it hasn't soiled me to the idea of helping new players along
I was in that same match and you guys were doing very well, also I had AI on repairs the first half the match, so those Hades shots were from.players, a level 2 engineer shooting a Hades like a pro and during reload helping repairs, without instruction, just let him do his thing once he realised he was shooting too. :)
But I was pushed to dodge those guns more times than should be comfortable in a lobby like that! :)
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Right, so before this thread gets locked, I would like to chime in on "noobs"
Literally an hour ago I had a player with zero matches played and a player with 30 matches played crewing on my galleon. Neither of them had been on a galleon before and started out in the lobby as dual gunners and terrible loadouts. I asked one to go engi and he did. The other one I gave some ammo and a brief explanation of what those types in on a hwacha. Before long they were both bottom decking like pros. A little bit of instruction goes a long way, especially if you treat them like people instead of pests. Last night, I met two very new players who were super cool and took instructions well and liked the music I was playing, so I asked if they wanted to join my clan, and they did. We now have two brand new friends that I wouldn't have made, had I taken the "rude, entitled 'vet' " approach.
In short, sure new players can be stupid and rude, but take a minute to explain stuff like a decent human being. I've had my share of uncontrollable noobs and it hasn't soiled me to the idea of helping new players along
Salute to you sir! An amazing example of a true player.
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In short, sure new players can be stupid and rude, but take a minute to explain stuff like a decent human being. I've had my share of uncontrollable noobs and it hasn't soiled me to the idea of helping new players along
Believe me, I always start with that, I don't do so ONLY when I fly with players level 35+ that I know. I always ask: "are there questions?" after each briefing. If there are - I explain the best I can. Yesterday I had level 6 player, who was aboard mobula for the first time, and was to man mercury for the first time either. He accepted my loadout, but changed it a bit. What's rare - during the match he saw that his changes (he took mallet instead of wrench, and I haven't noticed that) were a terrible mistake. He asked me questions about ammo I gave him, and so I explained to him. And it was a pleasure. By the way, that was the same match, where engies tried to tell how much mobula suck. And it was NOT a pleasure.
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It's clear that something is killing the community but it a not the novices, its this thread and others like it that have descended into personal arguments.
Granted I am not the oldest player, but in my time playing guns I have gained massive respect for most of the playerbase, even those I have never played with before simply because I can't remember a single bad experience with anybody lvl 15+ ( or there abouts).
Never have I seen so many cheap and unnecessary comments of 'I respect the noobs more' and worse taking pot shots at other players.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion on people, obviously you won't like everyone, but there is no need to vent it on a public forum in some attempt to name and shame somebody you personally don't get along with. It's really not that hard to either just block said player and don't play with them or actually just talk to them in a private message, if you really take so much offence from somebody over the internet you never have and likely never will meet, in my opinion you are not too well suited to be on the internet.
It a bit of a harsh way of looking at it I know, but not as harsh as some of the petty comments on here.
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Right, so before this thread gets locked, I would like to chime in on "noobs"
Literally an hour ago I had a player with zero matches played and a player with 30 matches played crewing on my galleon. Neither of them had been on a galleon before and started out in the lobby as dual gunners and terrible loadouts. I asked one to go engi and he did. The other one I gave some ammo and a brief explanation of what those types in on a hwacha. Before long they were both bottom decking like pros. A little bit of instruction goes a long way, especially if you treat them like people instead of pests. Last night, I met two very new players who were super cool and took instructions well and liked the music I was playing, so I asked if they wanted to join my clan, and they did. We now have two brand new friends that I wouldn't have made, had I taken the "rude, entitled 'vet' " approach.
In short, sure new players can be stupid and rude, but take a minute to explain stuff like a decent human being. I've had my share of uncontrollable noobs and it hasn't soiled me to the idea of helping new players along
I thought it is kinda agreed that comprehensive new players are not called noobs. I think I'm not the kind of person you percieve me as. No, I don't kick children and when I say 'noob' I don't mean "new player", I mean "new player that can't and/or is not willing to communicate, cooperate and learn on their and other's mistakes". That one person that can break the whole game (as mentioned before - lvl2 gunner piloting spire).
I'm suprised that I have to explain that. Really.
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Actually I would like to change the slang from noob to "snowflake" and "cog"
Snowflake - A new player who feels they are special and will do things their own way even when asked repeatedly to do things differently.
Cog - A new player who is trying their best to fit in, will follow instructions even if they don't make sense. Even though they interchangeable with any of 1000 other Cogs, once you have him/her slotted into place you are loathed to see them go.
Also this game does not need better tutorials. There is no way Muse can compress all the knowledge a player needs to succeed in this game into popup text in the sandbox mode. We as a community need to start posting to Youtube what a competent crew sounds like and plays like. Youtube is awash in stupid lets play videos of 1st time engineers malleting a broken flame thrower while the hull losses armor and dies. Unless we show people how the game is supposed to be played we have no right to expect them to do it properly when they join our crew.
For those who have been here a while, do you remember the Russin Influx? Some famous Russian Youtuber did a lets play where she and her friends ran around screaming on a Goldfish as they contributed jack squat to their team. A week later the lobbies are filled with Russian players doing the exact same thing. I have nothing but love for the Russian members of our community who actually stuck around and learned the game. It is the best example I could think of for the kind of mess we get when new players approaching this game with warped expectations of how it is played.
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Also this game does not need better tutorials. There is no way Muse can compress all the knowledge a player needs to succeed in this game into popup text in the sandbox mode. We as a community need to start posting to Youtube what a competent crew sounds like and plays like. Youtube is awash in stupid lets play videos of 1st time engineers malleting a broken flame thrower while the hull losses armor and dies. Unless we show people how the game is supposed to be played we have no right to expect them to do it properly when they join our crew.
Yes!
I think that new players have grown to expect YouTube guides, of which there are effectively none.
Videos of experienced crews would be good, but also explanations of guns/ammo, tools, and tactics.
GOIO 101?
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I may try helping that when I'll have some free time (I guess).
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It's as simple as getting a good crew of 4 people together, then having a fifth person spectate and narrate what's going on, why they're doing stuff, tricks like peaching to counter shatter spam, reloading gatling on armor break, chemspray rotation, map positioning for pilots, etc etc
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You could try that with a novice player on your crew as well, that way (as long as they are willing to co-operate) they would ask questions as you go and by answering his/her questions you are likely to answer the questions of anybody watching.
Or have a full crew spectating and each commenting on their respective equivalent on the ship(though this would miss out on the on-ship chat which I guess was the main point of this :/) but it would mean you could comment on the crew of any ship in the game, not just the ship you're on.
ps:if you need a semi-competent main engi to help with this feel free to pm me here or in-game.
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I'd be willing to help out with the YouTube project too that's a great idea and could go far, maybe some we can poke the regular streamers a bit too see if they can implement it a bit in the streams?
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More drama, please.
damn lmmr casual
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I'd be happy to help with some Youtube content. I've done a little video editing (nothing complicated), but I wouldn't describe myself as especially good. If we want some scripted that is more work than it seems, I could probably help with that.
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I have an idea. For a little episode.
The screen split on half - to the right rebuilding galleon's armour with mallet, to the left, rebuilding with spanner. And timer in center. With commentary. And something similar for repairing.
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I'll just leave it here
(http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png)
Dear god... the beauty..
Also for those that keep implying I changed my user for some sort of espionage crap. Kek. To those in the know, it will be changed back in a specific date.
Just as I said with quitting CsM after a certain date and returning to being leader of AI (thx muse for actually making me leader again-I now know thats not a thing I could get back after leaving)
As for the source of the new username: http://youtu.be/rxZSWb4TLLw?t=40s
And as of today... I'm just gonna do the bear minimum required to play. point guns move forward.
play mines and flare guns and mebbe my koi wenever I miss it (which now has mines and flare guns). Noobs shoot my mines? I will fly into them.
Ppl shoot my flare early we will be spotted and killed.
Hurry up and get that unscathed while my whimsy lasts.
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Thanks Schwalbe, great idea. We should make a new thread about it with a list of tiny to-do things like this, possibly in a google doc so people can volunteer and get assigned to do certain ones. For example I would like to make a video with timings of armor break with different gatling ammo types buffed vs unbuffed. Right now we can refer to llamatron but it's not as convincing as a video.
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This is so cute when community agrees on the idea you were trying to enforce half a year ago...
*sigh* yeah, that's a great idea, +1
I think that the problem is that veterans are 'forced' to play with both unexperienced players and noobs/assholes/snowflakes/whatsofuckingever. If we want some fun all we can do is gather enough people and make a private game, which is not a good solution neither for us, nor for community.
I imagined a system where playerbase (let's assume for a moment that is big enough for this) is divided by levels into three categories: 1-14 ; 15-29; 30-45 and only two of those categories (neighboring each other) can stay in one match. So for example is the match has only >30lvl people, matchmaker can gather only people with levels 15 and above. This creates a kind of buffer zone for high level players from the most inexperienced players (and most noobs also). Because for now a random noob can ruin a life of a whole crew. And a bad ally also - that's why people who have friends and are in a clan are doing 'everything' to get to matchmaker with at least 3 people (making full crew).
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@disaster I've seen calls for tutorial videos far back as 2013 haha. If there has been any work done in that area could you post a link?
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@Omniraptor, I'd suggest Trello for organising tasks.
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This is so cute when community agrees on the idea you were trying to enforce half a year ago...
*sigh* yeah, that's a great idea, +1
I think that the problem is that veterans are 'forced' to play with both unexperienced players and noobs/assholes/snowflakes/whatsofuckingever. If we want some fun all we can do is gather enough people and make a private game, which is not a good solution neither for us, nor for community.
I imagined a system where playerbase (let's assume for a moment that is big enough for this) is divided by levels into three categories: 1-14 ; 15-29; 30-45 and only two of those categories (neighboring each other) can stay in one match. So for example is the match has only >30lvl people, matchmaker can gather only people with levels 15 and above. This creates a kind of buffer zone for high level players from the most inexperienced players (and most noobs also). Because for now a random noob can ruin a life of a whole crew. And a bad ally also - that's why people who have friends and are in a clan are doing 'everything' to get to matchmaker with at least 3 people (making full crew).
This is what novice is for.
No novices go to novices matches, hence no novice lobbies exist for MM to find. So they just go to normal matches because nothing is stopping them (even worse in this case because MM dumps them on these lobbies now as opposed to them wondering in on the old days).
Also elaborate systems like that are only implemented with games that have a population problem. Like MMOs where under leveled ppl simply cannot survive in higher lvl enviroments. Hence they are deterred to go.
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@Omniraptor - Disaster is making a separate topic about this initiative.
Edit: Tis 1 (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5647.new.html#new)
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How the hell did this plunge into a vet vs noob fecal fight? And why wasn't I paying attention to fling a few?!
Overwatch you guys violated TBB trademarks with that image. I expect a written apology in Minese on my desk by 0600.
Others about just vets not playing till noobs level up. Already doing that, course I'm just doing it cause bad game + MM mess = no reason to play. Now pending next patch and what Muse does, I might be willing to put up with the MM mess. But having been on off and on...think opinion on the noob situation is already known. MM only amplifies the problem and makes me only want to play with clan members only. Which makes stacking happen and more QQ. Which makes me want to mine to force rage quits and leads to more QQing. Ultimately, MM has doomed everyone, they just don't all know it yet till I mine them.
If Muse wanted to focus on COOP, dumping a broken MM on everyone wasn't the way to do it. As it sits they're going to have to spend probably another 2-3 patches just making MM function without infuriating everyone. I say 2-3 because there is no way they'll get it right the first time. Its just too much of a mess for one patch to fix.
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Just reminding you guys, there are NO novice matches. We're at that point in the games life again.
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Just reminding you guys, there are NO novice matches. We're at that point in the games life again.
Actually, as a CA with access to novice games, I have noticed a serious decline in the number of novice matches
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Last night, global chat:
Level 2: "How long do you queue?"
Abby the helpful ret: "About 2-3 minutes, maximum of 10."
Level 2: "And for non noob matches?"
Me: "About the same."
I'm beginning to think that new players should have no awareness they're novice... Once they clock on to it, many of them get insulted and become desperate to turn their novice off..
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What I think that sucks is how easy scrubs level up from their novicehood. Before the 1.3.8 patch and old leveling system I was 3-3-3 after playing more than 120 matches or something like that. Nowadays getting from novicehood in such manner ("let's level up all classes equally") is far way too easy, and hence - levels mean even less in terms of experience you can expect from a player.
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I think I was a cog at some point. I was the left Engie on a SLUG Mobula captained by a friendly guy named Cheeseness. I requested a Hades on the lower gun mount, and he happily obliged. He gave loadout suggestions which I happily followed. I won't say I carried the team, because I definitely didn't. But I learned my way around a Mobula, and Captain Cheeseness even learned a Hades' arc. So I wasn't really a cog, I was a crewman.
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I think I was a cog at some point. I was the left Engie on a SLUG Mobula captained by a friendly guy named Cheeseness. I requested a Hades on the lower gun mount, and he happily obliged. He gave loadout suggestions which I happily followed. I won't say I carried the team, because I definitely didn't. But I learned my way around a Mobula, and Captain Cheeseness even learned a Hades' arc. So I wasn't really a cog, I was a crewman.
You was a cog which connected to your machine and another cog.
;)
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The funny thing is that Cheeseness was like lvl 40+
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The funny thing is that Cheeseness was like lvl 40+
I know I'm often learning different arcs for different guns on different ships, especially Mobulas and Squids. If you're not used to flying a certain ship, or you've got guns in different positions than usual, then good communication with whoever is on the gun(s) will certainly help the pilot learn the arcs.
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Most of my discouragement has come while on the forums. There are a few very vocal elitists here who repeatedly say "lul h8 pubz, prvt match 4tw". If I get stomped by an all-clan team or something, I take it as a bad match and keep playing. It's when I get on here and realize the aforementioned people are so pretentious that I go a little stir crazy.
It's like this one time when I played chess with a guy who was totally into it. I play chess for fun, for a mental exercise. He looked angrily at my apparently arbitrary movements and said, "I don't recognize this strategy. Do you know how to play?" There's a difference between tic-tac-toe'ing with squares, X's, and O's and enjoying the game without breaking it down into a precise science which, when deviated from, people freak at the noobs. Playing three-corners is significantly less exciting for people who are about playing rather than winning.
But again, I've only ever seen people freak on the forums, so. There's that.
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But again, I've only ever seen people freak on the forums, so. There's that.
That is a rather dubious generalization. Perhaps you are only looking for the freaking out?
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Believe me, when stacked crew see that enemies are, well, stupid, the stacked crew is pissed as well. The difference is, that experienced people have some class, dignity, and sort of a sense of dignity not to say that during match, not to discourage new players, that may come to learn something more in the future.
I'd rather say these are new players, not aware of the fact, that from every failure you can learn a lesson, but most of them refuse because of sheer lazyness.
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Alexir. The problem is not that it is only only the forums, it is that the forums is the place these things should be discussed, infact it was this very thread which encouraged a few members of the community to get together and increase ways to learn the game, it has also helped encourage more players to manually balance matches or take "less than meta" builds when in unbalanced matches.
More higher level crews and clans are putting their members out of their comfort zones and throwing them new weapons, lumberjacks, Hades and flaks appear more than gatling mortar and carro flamer in the unbalanced matches. People are taking other ships too, more veteran operated spires and squids are cropping up, because the vets want to avoid the reputation which certain members are giving us.
3v3 stacked lobby by chance, we offered to balance the match, the enemy refused, and even gave some strong words assuming we were all new too, so we took three squids, one triple gatling one triple flak and the other double carro or something, we each had specific roles and everyone was out of their comfort zone, the match was a win to us but it was close, when they saw the levels at the end of the match their overall attitude changed and the two new.player ships.stuck around for more.fun games.
Happy days.
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I'd rather say these are new players, not aware of the fact, that from every failure you can learn a lesson, but most of them refuse because of sheer lazyness.
I always say getting your ass handed to you is the best way to get better at something.
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I'd rather say these are new players, not aware of the fact, that from every failure you can learn a lesson, but most of them refuse because of sheer lazyness.
I always say getting your ass handed to you is the best way to get better at something.
Also known as "Practice makes perfect." And "Trial and error." "Learn from your mistakes." And "Don't charge that galleons broadside!"
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The funny thing is that Cheeseness was like lvl 40+
I know I'm often learning different arcs for different guns on different ships, especially Mobulas and Squids. If you're not used to flying a certain ship, or you've got guns in different positions than usual, then good communication with whoever is on the gun(s) will certainly help the pilot learn the arcs.
Yeah, it takes some time to get used to the fact that the Mobula's side guns are mounted at a slight outward angle. Every slot was an Artemis (which has one of, if not the, widest arcs in the game) until I requested a Hades.
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But again, I've only ever seen people freak on the forums, so. There's that.
That is a rather dubious generalization. Perhaps you are only looking for the freaking out?
Oh no, I didn't mean that that's all I see on the forums, I meant that I've only seen hostility toward noobs on the forums as opposed to in-game. To say it a different way, no matter how frustrated elites are in-game, they're almost always chums about it. I only ever experienced anti-new-player sentiment on the forum. Like looking at one surface and finding certain bacteria, and looking at another and finding different bacteria. It doesn't mean the latter species is all that exist on that surface, only that it's a new environmental factor that I hadn't noticed previously.
Make sense?
I think the more than educating new players on all the ins and outs of being a pro airship crewman, the community needs to find and accept a balance of player interest levels. I'm a full-time college student with an internship and two jobs. I understand it's a small community, and there are a lot of influential, highly skilled members here, but sometimes it feels a little like a religious conversion. Get good fast, or you're wasting our time in-game. Or, join our super awesome clan so you can one day be super good and compete with us - but I can't in good conscience sign up for something I won't be able to carry through on.
Now, I certainly won't stop playing, and this definitely doesn't apply to everyone here. To the contrary, as I said before, just a few very vocal individuals, but it's still a little jarring for new members visiting the forums.
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I actually find it funny to think these forums are considered jarring... They're the nicest community I've met and had the pleasure to natter with... Many... Oh so many forums are filled with members who make even our "most toxic" look like saints in comparison..
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I see. Though, I have seen some pretty harsh anti'noob'ism in my time in the game. Most of those people don't last much longer once they start doing that. It may be that you don't see it in the game because so many people use crew form now just to avoid MM.
Then again, there is not a strong elitism sense in any part of the game. Most players seem willing to give new people at least one chance.
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Yeah not really jarring. This place is rather tame. We maybe have a toxic member come through once a year. Toxic players just return to LoL or CoD before they bother with this game.
I don't hate noobs, just idiots and trolls or people not willing to listen to reason. Noobs can actually grow and learn and want to get better pending they are responsive and listen. Trouble is many of the vets have been burned by lots of bad ones. I don't want to bother teaching them anymore unless they show they are decent human beings. Heck I know CAs who got fed up with these sorts of people. They'd be kind and nice and the new player would treat them like dirt.
Then theres the idiots who sit there in lobby making horny possum calls and think its funny. Or in a game which requires voice chat, they'll have all sound off cranking out music full blast.
I'm very honest and up front with noobs. I'll take you on my ship and you'll have a blast, but you better: 1: communicate, 2: listen to instruction, 3: your gunner class does not exist unless I say it exists, and 4: like mines...oh and 5: if you harass females players, I'll make it my goal to see you either banned, or mined till rage quit.
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I'll make myself a little more clear before bowing out since this obviously isn't a popular opinion:
I have encountered exactly two people who I would call jerks - or freshmen in high school without hobbies, it remains to be seen. These people rebutted pretty much every post I made for the first few weeks with "Lul, whatever noob, gonna go back to winning. PEACE!" These people made a noob feel unwelcome because the three numbers under my name seemed to invalidate my ideas. These are the elitists of whom I speak.
That's all. No need to enter elaborate explanation on why you're all awesome. You are. That's not what I'm disputing. Merely that some people who like winning more than having fun lurk in the community and are jerks to newcomers. It's simple.
G'night.
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Hello Alexor,
I only tend to lurk threads like these as there little substance to contribute to these discussions for my part, but I did want to respond to your posts regarding some of the frustrations you`ve been facing in this game.
It is a fact that players will not be as forgiving with new players all the time and a whole different attitude is taken upon them simply because they appear new (I would know, I have been offered access to play on accounts where levels for them are far lower and witnessing the very behavior you`re describing among some players). But don`t let that discourage you, to be completely frank it took me the better part of 1000 games to really get the hang of every aspect of this game and to overcome my frustrations as to why things were falling apart on ships - and of course the more experianced you get the less flak you *tend* to recieve based on your rep as a player.
Now that doesn`t mean you need to play 1000 matches to do this - it just took me that long to really get the hang of it (call me slower than most) but after a while all that flak really starts to evaporate. This is especially true when you find oppertunities to fly with like-minded fun players that you can get good chemistry with - it is a serious blast. One of my buddies in the early stages of the game was Ightrril from Overwatch, we both started out at roughly the same level and played together lots to overcome the challanges of the game and to also understand it better by experimenting. I would definately encourage the same for you if you get such an oppertunity :)
There`s always going to be a few bad apples in every community, but don`t let that turn you away from fun oppertunities to meet other people instead :)
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I'd rather say these are new players, not aware of the fact, that from every failure you can learn a lesson, but most of them refuse because of sheer lazyness.
I always say getting your ass handed to you is the best way to get better at something.
Also known as "Practice makes perfect." And "Trial and error." "Learn from your mistakes." And "Don't charge that galleons broadside!"
I don't think the players are the problem. What's the learning when getting stomped by meta ships with meta crews? It's playing the game on the hardest setting. Stacked lobbies are playing it on impossible.
I've found the majority of learning comes from being taught. Practice is always good but it doesn't help much when your ship has bad loadouts and keeps getting wrecked. The best practice is playing with experienced players not against them. New players should take advice more often and experienced players should give it more.
The only thing I'm disappointed with the GoI community for is pub stomping with meta ships. Why play a game on easy? It's killing our new community one game at a time.
Ayetach is right
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On the topic of some people like winning. All of us like winning, and we don't like being put into positions where winning is impossible. We don't mind as much putting other people into a position where winning is impossible.
When I use the match making system I often feel winning is often impossible. My previous win record guarantees I get put on crews who have had a consistent loss record because they don't understand the game systems and don't communicate. No matter how well I shoot, repair, or even fly my actions as an individual are never enough to swing the match in my team's favor. Eventually I just give up and start looking for high level players on my friends list. Next thing I know I am on a team where the lowest level is 25 against my old ship who still doesn't stand a chance and will probably rage quit in the next few matches.
It is unfair to the newbies and unfair to the match making algorithm, but I don't care. The hours I can play are few and I want to make the most of them.
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As Hamster said, the matchmaker frequently puts me on a ship with folks who are uncommunicative or just bad. Since a bad pilot ensures winning is impossible as your guns don't point at the enemy my gunner and engi win percentages have dropped ~10%, while my pilot win percentage has jumped up by about the same amount. I'm pretty sure this is for precisely the reasons Hamster gives, experienced players on the opposition are crippled if they are crewing and when they get sick of it and a slot opens up they hop over.
It has gotten to the point where I'd rather a total novice 0 games played to a level 15 who has prooved to the matchmaker there are totally clueless.
One partial fix is to decouple MMR for crewing and piloting, but it wont wholly solve the issue, someone has to crew with the idiots.
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I just wanted to say, that winning is good, but fighting a good, worthy, intense fight is always better, no matter the outcome.
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I just wanted to say, that winning is good, but fighting a good, worthy, intense fight is always better, no matter the outcome.
Saluted.
Exactly my feelings after losing countless 4-5 DMs against 45s
(edit: Actually, its been quite the opposite this week..)
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I just wanted to say, that winning is good, but fighting a good, worthy, intense fight is always better, no matter the outcome.
SCS #37 Finals, the best loss you'll ever see... Such emotion that match...
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http://open.spotify.com/track/5Nz9zzI4iAUYLYMczyhOtA
Boom.
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I don't think the players are the problem. What's the learning when getting stomped by meta ships with meta crews? It's playing the game on the hardest setting. Stacked lobbies are playing it on impossible.
Lobby stacking will never go away. Clans want to play together and will continue to do it. However, MM forces you in with them no matter what. You can't just browse a list and see a Clan Practice lobby, then avoid it to find an easier match. You want this to change? Bug Muse. It may take a year but eventually something might change.
If you want no clan stacks or stacking at all...then all custom game options must be taken away along with all friend match options. Meaning you can never group with friends and you are perpetually put into random matches where you know no one. This is the biggest load of steaming horse feces that could ever be implemented and there is no way in hell it would happen.
So people QQing about stacking...shut up. Join a clan. Stop sitting feeling sorry for yourself and crying about how unfair the world is. You want it fair, go do something about it. If you don't like the clans, make your own. Deal with it. Bugging Muse about...waaa waaaa stacking...isn't going to solve anything. Grow a pair or get out.
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If you want no clan stacks or stacking at all...then all custom game options must be taken away along with all friend match options. Meaning you can never group with friends and you are perpetually put into random matches where you know no one.
NOOOO
(http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/ae0Yj8q_460s.jpg)
Shut up or somebody will eventually get to think: "HMMM actually he's right; LET'S ANNOUNCE NEW UPDATE WITHOUT THEM" because we already had come to think that Matchfaker is not to be touched, immaculate and saint...
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I think what was a genuine discussion may be taking a turn for a more emotional route we all want to avoid. :)
To some its a delicate subject but most of us here on the forums play the game the same as the rest, with friends, clan mates and allies...
Also one thing to keep in mind, players will complain about stacking and levels regardless of the situation.
My ship: Me level 45, gunner level 19, gungineer level 20(something) and main engineer 20(something) had a match on my gatling Artemis pyramidion, our mobula ally (who had double gunner) all rage quit the match, most shortly before the ship.was destroyed, the others after...leaving me and my able bodies crew 2 v 1 for a whole match against level 8's 10' and 15's, people started leaving the enemy squids when they started loosing.
Final score 5-3 to us, a single gatling Artemis pyramidion, low to mid level crew, the enemy accused us of hacks, stacking, pub stomping and blamed AI (even though they were loosing before they had AI on their ships, and we had nothing to actually hurt AIs mechanics)
We were the bad guys because our ally left and we stayed for the fight, my whom point is, as lovely as our community is, it is still part of "The Internet" and people will always complain about things, so we should avoid turning on ourselves, and be cool. 8)
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Final score 5-3 to us, a single gatling Artemis pyramidion, low to mid level crew, the enemy accused us of hacks
Is the event you are talking about recent? Yesterday I was accused, along with people on my shop, for hacks. I even got reported, but it was because of my foul, insolent mouth rather. But who knows.
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Last night, it's a common thing to see in new players from "the fps scene.." They come from games with different mechanics, where they can shoot well, or their super awesome no recoil mouse works, they come to guns with different mechanics and rather than realise it was load outs, ship choice or just plain luck, they use other excuses.. :(
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This might be the same group of people. Dammit.
Welp, my usual excuse is lag. But, well - the thing is that my connection really sucks, to the point, the game does not react for my commands for 20 seconds...
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Oh yeah, I also remember someone calling out "hacks" in the match chat after a win a week or so ago. I mean, I don't see too many aspects that you could modify to your advantage in this game.
"Speed ha- No wait they have kero for that"
"Invincibility ha- oh, wait , theyre flying out of our arcs nvm"
"Invisib- JUST SPOT THE FRIGGIN THING"
"Pop up behind us and kill us under 10 seconds haa- Gat mortar says hi"
"45 captain? I bet he grinded by killing the wolves in the forest. Oh wait."
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There is one bug in king of the hill on dunes which makes ships invisible :P
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There is one bug in king of the hill on dunes which makes ships invisible :P
That's not a bug, that's hax!!!
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Is Community ambassador like a teacher, or just a civilian type moderator in the game? If it is a teacher role, I would be happy to apply, as I have a great love for teaching new players. If it is not a teacher role, is it possible to look into creating a teacher role that could be applied to, that would have matchmaker put you on ships with and fresh players(i would say <7)? Or even a thing you could turn on and off, saying if you feel like teaching new players or not would be nice.
What it comes down to is that this game has a steep learning curve, especially with it being the only game I know of that requires cooperation. Any other game, you can carry a team alone, if you are good enough. Guns of icarus however requires at least two or three decent players on one ship for it to be able to carry a team. With this steep curve, and the brand new required co-op, no one is prepared. All of the books people are complaining about are fresh from a ton of different games, and if you expect this to be like literally ANY other game, you will be wrong. Go easy on them, because GOIO is a unique experience, and they are not prepared, just like you were not prepared when you first played, unless you had a helpful teacher, or a friend to explain the game before you played. Maybe you were more willing to learn, but you were still new at one time.
I know I am not a high level player, and I do not even have a hundred hours in the game, but I know my way around a ship, and want to do my part to help others become not just Cogs in a greater machine, but players like my self, with knowledge and the will to pass it on to others.
Also, on a side note, I agree with those who say this is one of the nicest communities around. I think it comes from how small it is, making everything much more tightly knit, and instilling a much more village like feeling, as opposed to most games' cold and unfeeling city communities. Keep up being a village, and remember that being close means seeing a lot of everyone. Try not to be intolerable, and if someone is a jerk, do not be so aggressive about telling them so, as you will see them again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day after that.
And in case you got lost in my rambling, at the beginning. I asked about teacher stuff, so any help there would be appreciated. Thanks for reading
Lanliss, Captain of the Infallible
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http://gunsoficarus.com/community-ambassadors/
We are both teachers and CA Moderators.
No need for a turn on and off function! Being a CA allows you to join novice matches, set up custom novice lobbies and a few other perks.
A lot of the CAs take time out of their schedules to run events too!
Check the link above for more details
:)
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Thank you, it looks like CA is exactly what I was looking for, though I do not have the time under my belt for it. I plan on working to reach that number. If I do apply, does it work on a timetable, where I would be required to put in so many hours at certain times? I might be able to do it if it is like that, but I run pretty random hours, so I can not promise much in the area of a schedule.
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There is nothing to stop you applying sooner! Although you're less likely to be known by the community you will likely be given the opportunity to meet Muse and CA's in the CA games! 8)
Also from what I've seen so far, I'd vouch for you. The absolute worst that'll happen is Muse'll say "Stick with it a bit longer and apply again next time." So you've nothing to loose!
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Thanks for the vote of confidence. I will apply once I have access to my computer, and I cannot wait to start giving back to this wonderful community, even if I do not make ambassador.