Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Arturo Sanchez on January 21, 2015, 01:07:50 pm
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I don't know, besides Dunes I rarely see sniper as the popular choice. And even in Dunes, its more of a vet vs noobs kinda build because of the clear lack of any real cover, decent sniper crews can cut apart brawlers with barely any trouble and pilots'only worry about positioning is point the correct direction.
What would need to be done to increase popularity of sniper guns while maintaining the balance or even make it even more balanced if possible?
Only thing that comes to mind personally is the fact that AI apparently can't snipe worth a damn. In fact they did have a general nerf in repair speed to before but thats another issue.
(Yes I'm stuck on sniping achieves)
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If you want to play a sniper roll more often just bring a sniper ship and find a crew that is willing to put up with it. There are long range sections on almost all the maps, and even if there aren't there is nothing stopping you from using a merc point blank. If you are a good enough captain you can even make a deal with your crew:
"I am going to use a meta build this round to get an easy victory, but next round I want to try something experimental and possibly stupid, are you with me?"
The current meta is pretty balanced for all types of play, the execution of the sniper game is a bit more difficult than it was in the past but it is certainly still viable.
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It is used on fjords too. But generally it's just how the game works, most maps are close range.
But having said that.. I've seen competitive teams choose to shoot each other across duel at dawn, camp at the back of canyon, play meta galleon (LJ, HF, hades + brawl side) on paritan and snipe with the long range side.
I think it's about how you play the build. You can snipe in most maps.
I think we don't see pubs play them because landing shots at 2000m is really hard, basically.
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People have to learn how to shoot these long range guns.
People have to learn how to fly ships that have long range guns correctly to not get crushed by forward rushing teams.
Doing that is harder on maps that are not dunes. Fjords, water hazard and firnfeld are getting some sniper love, but on other maps it is harder to stay long range and why bother with long range when you end in a brawl regardless?
In pubs, mercury and artemis are probably the only viable long range guns.
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If you want to play a sniper roll more often just bring a sniper ship and find a crew that is willing to put up with it. There are long range sections on almost all the maps, and even if there aren't there is nothing stopping you from using a merc point blank. If you are a good enough captain you can even make a deal with your crew:
"I am going to use a meta build this round to get an easy victory, but next round I want to try something experimental and possibly stupid, are you with me?"
The current meta is pretty balanced for all types of play, the execution of the sniper game is a bit more difficult than it was in the past but it is certainly still viable.
I'd find this viable when at least 80% of players listen about changing class and to not bring a goddamn rangefinder for the 100th time. You can't bargain with people that can't follow simple instructions. And besides... its not the piloting sniping stuff. Its the gunner and engie stuff.
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If sniper is the best way you know how to play, then go for that.
When we played, we were only good at close range. Being limited to that we can get creative.
Same creativity can be applied to Snipers, just use it and win over limitations. But sniping imo feels like it is super dependant on the gunners. It can also be applied for captains with good positioning.
So in this case, if ide have to go sniper for the rest of my transparent goio career, then ide love for a squid partner that is infact the opposite of sniper.
Having 2 sniper ships togheter =/= true sniping. Thats just two ships togheter. 2 Ships from completely different positions can work albeit risky if you dont have an awareness over the map and visuals on enemies. 2 Complete different positions will always grant 1 ship the ability to constantly snipe. But then both sniper ships has to be powerfull enough to end atleast one ship before it gets to them. The 1 sniper+1disable has sort of the same strategy where there is always 1 sniper ship able. And if one ship dies the other is in distance enough or safe enough to retreat for just loosing 1 point instead of the usual 2 loss of points that brawl usually gives per encounter.
People simply try to snipe with the intention of shooting with good focus. No real alluring or distraction or abusing aggro, or good map use. Its rarely seen mostly because of safety issues of not knowing what is behind the corner.
But if were talking bringing sniper in pub, there is a slimmer chance. And that is mostly due to how pub players not knowing how to fire the guns properly.
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I like to run a missile based Mobula (featuring artemis). I think I've won about 75% of the games I've piloted it. Here are some things I know that makes this "sniper" Mobula work.
1.) Squids
Before you start, make sure there are no squids on the enemy side. If you try to snipe against a squid, you will burn and you will lose. If there is a squid, forget about sniping. (Except maybe on chaotic 4v4s. Even then, if you see two or more squids, don't)
2.) Ship Loadout
Most common sniper ships are spire and mobula. Know that the guns don't all face forward. Put your large arc guns on the sides, and your little arc guns in the middle. I usually fly a Mobula, and I put hades in the middle, artemis to the sides.
Also, make sure you have at least one close range option. I recommend a carronade or a flame to disable the enemy and make a run.
3.) Tool Loadout
Your crew's loadout, unless they are completely outrageous, doesn't matter too much. You, the pilot's loadout, is essential.
Make sure you have kero or moonshine. Make sure you bring an altitude alteration tool. Don't bother with tar. I'll explain pilot tools later.
4.) Not too close, but not too far.
Obviously, you shouldn't fly too close. You are a sniper ship after all.
But don't make the mistake of flying too far. Your gunner will never snipe across maps. You will be useless. You need to fly close enough to consistently snipe certain components.
I usually fly under 1000m away. This will depend on your style, but never expect to hit outside 1500m.
5.) Talk to your crew
Whether your crew is experienced or fresh, they won't often aim to snipe certain components until you tell them. They will point to the enemy and hit the ship, especially at extended ranges. Tell your crew to target certain components. Even fresh crews will do that if you tell them.
6.) Talk to your crew
Your crew can usually adjust your rotational movements. They'll be leading the enemy if they are any good. But its hard for them to adjust to vertical movements. I'm not sure why, but it is.
Whenever you change altitude, tell your crew to adjust their aim.
7.) Pilot tools
There are far better players to explain how to use pilot tools. This is how I use them.
Kero/Moonshine - I'm turning, and I need to stop to give my gunners good shots and good arcs. I tap kero or moonshine to stabilize my ship.
Hydro - When enemy is coming for us, I like to change altitude. I like hydro better for this because, when I go up, I'm usually not hittable by gat/mortar. And I can drive over them and drop behind them. It's especially effective against pyras.
This is about it. This is how I play sniper and make it work. I'm sure there are better tips.
I have few maneuvers on a Mobula that I love, but those are trade secrets. (And I'm sure any good player knows them anyways).
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Kinda off topic, but thanks for the tips. I've been working up the nerve to play the Mob, so this helps.
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Actually, once I finish guns graphs, get some more experience on the mobula, learn a few more tricks from other members, I might make a sniper-mobula guide.
But that'll be a while.
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I just got unscathed today.
I only ever do it with sniper builds since you cannot have your hull hit to get it. I know how to pilot a sniper. That is not the issue.
I'm a solid all rounder and can fly anything.
It's me getting practice on a sniper ship. Not my skill for piloting and playing and winning with them. I can do that. I'm talking about some means to increase popularity of it in general so I can actually get some practice on it as a non-pilot.
Because as is, all I'm seeing is rammy noobs with gat flak as the closest approximation in pub.
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I just got unscathed today.
I only ever do it with sniper builds since you cannot have your hull hit to get it. I know how to pilot a sniper. That is not the issue.
I'm a solid all rounder and can fly anything.
It's me getting practice on a sniper ship. Not my skill for piloting and playing and winning with them. I can do that. I'm talking about some means to increase popularity of it in general so I can actually get some practice on it as a non-pilot.
Because as is, all I'm seeing is rammy noobs with gat flak as the closest approximation in pub.
Yeah I was in that match, we had 5 of the 7 kills, Spoon had another kill and you had one kill, either your gunner was not shooting enough or not telling you when out of arc but your positioning was not bad, a bit risky with no hard cover nearby if the Goldfish had of charged you, fortunately us three kept a relatively good formation so they didn't get to charge you.
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Again, the sniper weapons are "too advanced" for new people.
I mean dual Mercs is still pretty good and it is easy to hit with, but oh wait pub pilots cant aim with them :I
Artemis? Oh he needs to go higher...
Lumberjack? Aaaa the gunner just keeps missing.
Heavy flak! Gunner misses, hits when the armor is up, and no piercing to accomodate.
Oh wait where is the flare?
and more...
The popular choices of weapons is instead weapons easy to hit with. So there ye go.
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You can thank us for ruining sniper gameplay for everyone thanks to our hour+ competitive battles back when sniper boats ruled all.
Sniper play is still workable but ultimately it is very situational and you need a ship that can do both sniper and CQC. You aren't looking so much at merc/arts but merc/flak. Arts can't kill fast enough and captains aren't afraid of them. Light flak however, can kill and you only sacrifice a little range for it. If you have dual boats running it you can chop up ships fast before they get close. Of course that is if they can be forced through a route where you can do it. Split fire situations you can't dps fast enough before their ally closes range.
Heavy Flak return to old Heavy Flak...now sniper battle problem solved. It wouldn't even need all the old perks back, just the damage brought back to classic levels. "But what about piercing?!" Ha with old HF you didn't need piercing. The shots actually packed as much punch as the gun sounds when it fires. Thing could one shot a lot of ships if their armor went down. I remember facing flakfish and the panic you'd get into the moment the armor down. Frantically trying to rebuild before their HF reloaded. Was quite a rush.
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Light flak isn't really sniping I find. It's so mid range that I sometimes wonder if hades/mortar wouldn't be a good idea from time to time. If you get a mercury then you really want that artemis. If the enemy gets close than that mercury isn't going to save you anytime soon and it is more often than not really slow on destroying armor, especially when you want to make use of it's disable power.
Sniping isn't about quick killing until you have a heavy flak, but then you don't need a light flak anymore.
I don't think long range at least can really be made popular in pubs. Most people join the game to get some of that airship vs airship cqc hardcore non-existent boarding action. Long range is sitting there in mid-air and hope your gunners hit, I can't imagine too many pub pilots wanting to sit through that all day every day unless you have the team to do that with you or go triple Spire to wreck everything.
Sniping isn't necessarily long range though. Try getting your pilot to switch that flak/mortar to an artemis and tell him to try and stay above the enemy so you have the necessary arc or try to get your Galleon to switch one of it's four hwacha to a lumberjack.
Only the community can make sniping/long range more popular so if you get more people to use it and if they like it they will use it more (and cry because their gunners might not hit).
You can also ask clans about their scrim times and get to when they need a sub so you can practise sniping/long range in a bit more coordinated environment.
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I just got unscathed today.
I only ever do it with sniper builds since you cannot have your hull hit to get it. I know how to pilot a sniper. That is not the issue.
I'm a solid all rounder and can fly anything.
It's me getting practice on a sniper ship. Not my skill for piloting and playing and winning with them. I can do that. I'm talking about some means to increase popularity of it in general so I can actually get some practice on it as a non-pilot.
Because as is, all I'm seeing is rammy noobs with gat flak as the closest approximation in pub.
Yeah I was in that match, we had 5 of the 7 kills, Spoon had another kill and you had one kill, either your gunner was not shooting enough or not telling you when out of arc but your positioning was not bad, a bit risky with no hard cover nearby if the Goldfish had of charged you, fortunately us three kept a relatively good formation so they didn't get to charge you.
My gunner was shooting with dead accuracy.
My art however wasn't firing (if you recall I had novice crew who barely knew how to fix) and my positioning was exactly calculated and intentional by the moment by moment circumstance. Not because of some formation we thought of.
I put myself out of trouble while you as brawlers naturally went to the front. All while giving support fire. Don't even suggest those merc gun disables didn't save your butt. engines and guns were going out with nearly every shot.
Didn't get kills but I definitely get points for assist (more if my art was firing). As for that goldfish, he was facing my side guns. If he got close he woulda faced meta. while my gunner kept sniping. would have lost unscathed but I woulda killed the fish for the loss and fulfilled my role as supporting fire.
Besides spoon was chasing him. Fish had bigger priorities. He would never have reached me.
as for that merc flak suggestion... ew... what you thinking man that is so inefficient. The flak lowers the effectiveness of the merc.
Merc art is preferred that despite the slightly lower range ~(still higher than flak), arts have the ability to disable AND does explosive dmg. Plus its much more accurate than a flak and a carousel.
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Actually is was the other pyramidion who your disables assisted more, but yes you assisted him.
I wont argue with you based on your calculations because evidently you're the obvious superior being. 8)
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One of these days Kamo you and me will be on opposite teams with equal standing crew and I will kick your ass.
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See you're so easily offended. Again humility and a bit of Zen are needed in your life.. If you'd like to do more trash talk then by all means you have me on steam and you're welcome to PM me.
As for your threat.. We've been in such teams before against each other, but I'm sure we can arrange a 2v2 skrim some time if you really think that'll make you feel better.
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Some say the life of a sniper pyra captain is boring, but I find it to my liking. I used to bring 3 engies and ask one of them to buff the long guns while the other two shoot. That left me on the helm making minor adjustments and occasionally fixing the hull.
Now I bring the standard 2 engie 1 gunner build and bring the buffkit myself. While we out range the enemy I buff the guns and make the bottom deck engine fly. When things get hot I take the helm, order my gunners to side guns and let the main deck engie fix stuff.
Having a gunner bring lesmok and burst makes the artemis more dangerous. Having two full time engines on board makes us more survivable in a brawl. Keeping the guns buffed makes my life more interesting and being forced to work the helm keeps the main engie's life interesting too. Unfortunately this only works with decently skilled crew so I save this build until I have at least one more vet on the ship.
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See you're so easily offended. Again humility and a bit of Zen are needed in your life.. If you'd like to do more trash talk then by all means you have me on steam and you're welcome to PM me.
As for your threat.. We've been in such teams before against each other, but I'm sure we can arrange a 2v2 skrim some time if you really think that'll make you feel better.
Nah I just remember the days when you piloted and I was a gunner or engie on your ship and it pissed me off on how you were so inefficient, and now I hear you talking smack about my calculations when I've seen you fly straight into a 2 v 1 (something I knew not to do even on my novice days).
As for a brawlers ships that can snipe. The successful example of this is my spire.
Art merc on top. flame hwacha.
At close range, the hwacha fires to disable and merc engie jumps down to the flamer at the same time to minimise repairs, and then 2nd hwacha kills. With 2 ppl on guns that leaves 1 engie to keep things together.
But on long range art, merc, heavy hwacha.
As for a pyra sniper, I do have a meta side but given the nature of pyra piloting I feel you just gotta commit and make sure you cut apart engines and guns before the impending ram from the brawler.
A true sniper build can rip apart any ship so long as they can hit. And when it comes to a brawl, I say its up to the pilot to really keep survivability.
Hydro, then tar and then kero the fk out of there reposition and snipe. As it stands a good sniper should be near an escape route anyway. Like a nearby cloud or terrain.
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Unfortunately this only works with decently skilled crew so I save this build until I have at least one more vet on the ship.
Ooh me! Pick me!
This sounds fun. :o
Kindly request to crew on this build.
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Yes I sucked back then and if you don't want to skrin that's cool, maybe we'll meet in svs now you're with CsM.
@Hamster that's a very efficiiabt build and plan I'd love to see it in action :)
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Yes I sucked back then and if you don't want to skrin that's cool, maybe we'll meet in svs now you're with CsM.
@Hamster that's a very efficiiabt build and plan I'd love to see it in action :)
Your scrim is me vs your clan. It's like wtf you think that would prove for you? As for the saturday thing, you are the least of my worries in that comp.
You ain't no Leousi
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First of all, if you are doing hardcore sniping in a pyra you are doing it wrong. You are pretty much wasting the advantage of a pyra completely by sitting it off on the edge of the map. If you are going to seriously snipe, spire or mobula are your best bets.
In your average pub match, if you are going to snipe with either of those ships, you need to stick with guns that have no arming time. This is just because most pubbie gunners can't shoot and hit effectively enough to kill a ship before it gets inside your arming time, and once a brawling ship gets inside your arming time, you are in serious trouble.
These requirements pretty much leave you with mercury and artemis.
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First of all, if you are doing hardcore sniping in a pyra you are doing it wrong. You are pretty much wasting the advantage of a pyra completely by sitting it off on the edge of the map. If you are going to seriously snipe, spire or mobula are your best bets.
In your average pub match, if you are going to snipe with either of those ships, you need to stick with guns that have no arming time. This is just because most pubbie gunners can't shoot and hit effectively enough to kill a ship before it gets inside your arming time, and once a brawling ship gets inside your arming time, you are in serious trouble.
These requirements pretty much leave you with mercury and artemis.
This is precisely why my pyra is used for sniping. I've seen pubbies that couldnt find the central gun on my mobula and people fighting to give away our position on the hwacha.
And as I said on the match I got unscathed, 1 gunner was shooting 1 merc while my engies just milled about waiting for a win to happen. And despite me getting this rare achievement notch. I don't feel good for giving them that win and for giving Kamo fuel to diss my sound tactical positioning.
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First of all, if you are doing hardcore sniping in a pyra you are doing it wrong. You are pretty much wasting the advantage of a pyra completely by sitting it off on the edge of the map. If you are going to seriously snipe, spire or mobula are your best bets.
In your average pub match, if you are going to snipe with either of those ships, you need to stick with guns that have no arming time. This is just because most pubbie gunners can't shoot and hit effectively enough to kill a ship before it gets inside your arming time, and once a brawling ship gets inside your arming time, you are in serious trouble.
These requirements pretty much leave you with mercury and artemis.
This is precisely why my pyra is used for sniping. I've seen pubbies that couldnt find the central gun on my mobula and people fighting to give away our position on the hwacha.
And as I said on the match I got unscathed, 1 gunner was shooting 1 merc while my engies just milled about waiting for a win to happen. And despite me getting this rare achievement notch. I don't feel good for giving them that win and for giving Kamo fuel to diss my sound tactical positioning.
All I said was you was out in the open, the low level goldfish pilot pretty much ignored you, which is great I meerly suggested you might find it more useful to have some hard cover nearby.
Now most people take constructive criticism as a good thing, I'm sorry you was offended by mine but I'm going to stop replying after I say this, stop taking personal offence to minor details. Also try to be less hostile to the community around you.
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This is precisely why my pyra is used for sniping. I've seen pubbies that couldnt find the central gun on my mobula and people fighting to give away our position on the hwacha.
And as I said on the match I got unscathed, 1 gunner was shooting 1 merc while my engies just milled about waiting for a win to happen. And despite me getting this rare achievement notch. I don't feel good for giving them that win and for giving Kamo fuel to diss my sound tactical positioning.
If you are going to play in pub matches with pub crews, first of all you need to be patient and focus on teaching. If you don't like the way that pub crews operate, then it is up to you to train them. For example, if they can't find the weird asymmetrical ladder up to the top mobula gun, then either show them yourself or get a good crewmember to show them the light.
Second, you need to be patient because if and when pub crews don't listen, you just need to let it go and take the occasional loss. Raging at the new players will do absolutely nothing for them, and it just makes you look like an ass to the one guy who actually is listening.
Of course, if you can't handle losing, then maybe you shouldn't be doing pub matches at all, and only fly in formation with an all-clan team in extremely stacked and boring matches.
Also, if you are going to do sniping pyra, at least one of your crew is going to be really bored with nothing to do. Bored pubbies are always going to be bad pubbies.
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This is precisely why my pyra is used for sniping. I've seen pubbies that couldnt find the central gun on my mobula and people fighting to give away our position on the hwacha.
And as I said on the match I got unscathed, 1 gunner was shooting 1 merc while my engies just milled about waiting for a win to happen. And despite me getting this rare achievement notch. I don't feel good for giving them that win and for giving Kamo fuel to diss my sound tactical positioning.
If you are going to play in pub matches with pub crews, first of all you need to be patient and focus on teaching. If you don't like the way that pub crews operate, then it is up to you to train them. For example, if they can't find the weird asymmetrical ladder up to the top mobula gun, then either show them yourself or get a good crewmember to show them the light.
Second, you need to be patient because if and when pub crews don't listen, you just need to let it go and take the occasional loss. Raging at the new players will do absolutely nothing for them, and it just makes you look like an ass to the one guy who actually is listening.
Of course, if you can't handle losing, then maybe you shouldn't be doing pub matches at all, and only fly in formation with an all-clan team in extremely stacked and boring matches.
Also, if you are going to do sniping pyra, at least one of your crew is going to be really bored with nothing to do. Bored pubbies are always going to be bad pubbies.
I support this entirely. Also I am that bored guy on the sniper pyra.. but it's fine.. I don't mind actually seeing the game once in awhile.. - but that's just me..
As for the topic, I don't really think we need more sniping.. Or less.. but spire buff and pyra nerf ... + squid buff.. might effect ship choice.. we'll see I guess..
I'd like to see more mobulas and squids lately.. but ah well.
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Hades/double art trifecta. Fun for everyone. Boredom problem solved.
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This is precisely why my pyra is used for sniping. I've seen pubbies that couldnt find the central gun on my mobula and people fighting to give away our position on the hwacha.
And as I said on the match I got unscathed, 1 gunner was shooting 1 merc while my engies just milled about waiting for a win to happen. And despite me getting this rare achievement notch. I don't feel good for giving them that win and for giving Kamo fuel to diss my sound tactical positioning.
If you are going to play in pub matches with pub crews, first of all you need to be patient and focus on teaching. If you don't like the way that pub crews operate, then it is up to you to train them. For example, if they can't find the weird asymmetrical ladder up to the top mobula gun, then either show them yourself or get a good crewmember to show them the light.
Second, you need to be patient because if and when pub crews don't listen, you just need to let it go and take the occasional loss. Raging at the new players will do absolutely nothing for them, and it just makes you look like an ass to the one guy who actually is listening.
Of course, if you can't handle losing, then maybe you shouldn't be doing pub matches at all, and only fly in formation with an all-clan team in extremely stacked and boring matches.
Also, if you are going to do sniping pyra, at least one of your crew is going to be really bored with nothing to do. Bored pubbies are always going to be bad pubbies.
I'm beyond that phase of patience.
I've been in so many pub matches where I realise noobs simply do not listen to sound logic or advice and do what they want. I nearly ran with a an engie with mallet buff extinguisher for crying out loud after spending all 200 seconds of the lobby tell him to change.
Ain't got no time to lose because of some guy's incompetence. At this point noobs are achieve notches to me. As for the whole patience thing.
Impatience gets you flying head long into a 2 v 1. If I got a pilot that can't wait a few seconds to get spots or gather information on terrain and correct positioning before attacking, its not a matter of them being "interesting." Losing soundly because of the lack of a few basic practices is what a boring match is.
Can you truly TRULY unironically tell me it is fun to be part of a team that doesn't learn ANYTHING from any mistakes they make? If so, join all the boring impatient pubs you want. I don't want in on that. I spent 1-30 on all 3 classes with 100% match completion and I still try to leave before match start.
I only quit at match start when MM fks you over by placing you in a game with 5 seconds on the lobby timer. And honestly? I have ceased to care about that 100% match completion as a result. It has literally gained me nothing but grief.
That being said noob crews would benefit from sniping builds. Theres no special piloting required. You just point and shoot. Even a pubbie can handle turning a ship into arc, surely (ironically most common complaint with noob pilots)