Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Arnox on March 30, 2013, 01:29:15 pm
-
Greetings,
As titled, it would be nice if we could have :
- an improved block function, avoiding the blocked player to join the blocking commander. At the moment, the blocklist is only avoiding us to read people, griefing is doable at ease.
- a /kick [player_name] command avaliable in both lobby and match (commander only). Again, if you want to grief someone you just have to stay aboard, doing nothing, avoiding the system to detect you AFK, avoiding the crew to benefit the presence of another player of IA. Serious annoyance for the crew and the team.
regards,
Arnox
-
the /kick function seems a little out of place for GoI:O- I like being able to weasel my way onto high level crews. If that function existed, then some players would have a lot of trouble finding their way into any sort of high-level play, due to the fact that most people dislike teaching new players in the middle of a match.
However, I think that the block function should exist. Should it bar a player from entering the crew of the one who blocked him or her? The effect would have to occur once the two players leave the lobby, though, or else people would abuse it as a /kick.
-
A compromise suggestion..
If a player is currently blocked by more than 3/5/7/other players, the blocked player is then barred from joining crews under Captains that have blocked him. This stops spiteful blocking, but does leave the door open to abuse by block-blocking of a player by teams/clans/friends. Perhaps blocks should have an expiry date and lapse after 7 days?
I personally don't like adding a kick option, although I admit that some players can be frustrating.
-
Is it possible to add something like a vote for kicking player off? Because sometimes i got captains, who don't tried to communicate with crew and just flying around, don't even responding to the plea of the crew.
-
It was not focused on new players and newbies. Every one starts somewhere after all. I'm glad to have mixed crews, show the ropes, make them green. New blood is helping. I was not even talking about the Powder Monkeys. They are part of the GoIO mythologia. An Endless source of jokes, cries and such. I was aiming the "other" players. The guy who doesn't care about the game, the match nor the crew. He just here to piss you to death. The more he will grief, the more he will be happy. Again it's not intented to favor elitism propagation, just good behaviour. I think if a player is kicked 2 or 3 times in a raw due to griefing, he will think twice about it next time. Being "bad" because you are new to the game is not and should not be a reason to be kicked, ever.
As for the compromise : why not a /vote button ? The function exists in Team Fortress 2 for example :
X started a kick vote against "UmadBro" :
- YES
- NO
-
It gets pretty frustrating when someone joins your crew, jumps on the main gun, and just sits there the entire round. Now that the community isn't just hovering around 30 players waiting, there's a good number of people just looking to grief. Kicks weren't included specifically to foster a more cooperative community, but not having kicks makes this a griefer's paradise. Votekicking is going to be tough to include because usually only those on board the ship can actually tell whether someone is being a problem, allowing other ships to vote just makes it susceptible to social engineering. If it's just those on board, it's not hard for two people to just join a game and votekick the captain and then leave.
-
I am all for expanding the block function to exile blocked players from joining your ship. If you can't communicate with them there is no point flying together. However last time this idea was brought up Muse equated it to a kick which they have all but sworn not to implement. Here is a link to the discussion on the old forums:
http://gunsoficarus.com/community/forumarchive/discussion/545/we-need-a-kick-option-sooner-rather-than-later/p3 (http://gunsoficarus.com/community/forumarchive/discussion/545/we-need-a-kick-option-sooner-rather-than-later/p3)
-
Griefing's becoming more of an issue as the population picks up, if there isn't going to be a kick feature there has to be some way of dealing with griefers without just waiting for a report to not do anything about it. Preventing blocked players from joining your crew sounds like the best compromise, there's no way you can block someone you haven't met before but you CAN block someone you've played with and know to be a griefer. It'd be inconvenient enough to make abuse for teamstacking impractical, especially if there's a limit to how many players you can block. For just dealing with the odd griefer it's enough to just clean out your block list every once in a while.
-
I think a votekick is starting to get needed, gentleman.
Most of the players are very friendly, so I'm not sure about that elitism thing. And if it's a vote kick instead of just kicking out people, it's a lot more difficult to abuse it.
My proposal would be:
Crew member: 100% of the crew except himself should vote kick
Captain: 80% of the team should vote kick
If those conditions are satisfied then the guy is kicked and banned for the whole match.
Some clans could abuse this, but IMHO I think a few people abusing this is better than an increasing number of non-fun matches because of just one griefer in your team.
And as I said, there are better ways that I think would still be used when clans want to play together: saying to move to other ship with the microphone, or using password-protected matches.
This and adding some kind of reward to high-level people that help newbies and it should work pretty well, don't you think?
If it doesn't work out, muse can always just disable the option again.
-
Well, part of the problem with votekicking is that with a bit of social engineering you can con people into voting off anyone. I have a friend that regularly wipes out entire Gmod RP servers just by tricking people into kicking each other. While that's a bit different as Gmod RP servers aren't known for their intelligent patrons and you aren't physically close to each other to verify the votekick reason (people will vote yes given the slightest justification, even try to convince others to votekick even though the original reason's complete bullshit), I'm sure that's on Muse's minds.
I don't disagree that the slight bit of trolling and elitism that would come from that feature probably isn't going to outweigh the relief we'll get from being able to kick griefers screaming racist obscenities into the mic while hogging the front hwacha shooting into allies.
-
No kick of any kind.. I think most of the active community have been against any sort of kick option from the start.
I'm not sure if griefing is any more or less prevalent now than it was a couple of months ago. Something that hasn't changed though is the periodic mic bug where one player on a team is effectively inside their own comms bubble and can't hear anyone else's mic or be heard themselves. I've had that happen a few times to me, and been able to establish that it's happened to a crew member - in which case we make sure someone transcribes the essentials so s/he can follow what's being said. It would be very easy for a new player to fall into the comms bubble bug and not realise it was happening, s/h could then find themselves being repeatedly kicked from games for no apparent reason and be left thinking the game was played by antisocial types.
Some sort if beefed up block would be better, as I suggested up the thread.
(incidentally, the only fix for the comms bubble bug is to close down the game and restart - sometimes you may need to close down Steam and restart that as well)
-
Well, part of the problem with votekicking is that with a bit of social engineering you can con people into voting off anyone. I have a friend that regularly wipes out entire Gmod RP servers just by tricking people into kicking each other.
Wait, there is still people that plays gmod? xDD
However, as I said in my post, the only option you'd have is to votekick people in your crew and/or in your team.
If it's your crew, they all have to agree. You can only do that social engineering thing with newbies and kids, and I can't see an scenario where all your crew/team members are newbies AND someone wants to kick one of them because he is low-level. See what I mean?
I can't see this happening with, let's say, lvl5~8 people in your crew.
I've played gmod a lot, usually SP or in private servers because people in public servers where mostly mingebags, noobs, or just too young kids. This game it's different (or at least I hope so xD).
-
No kick of any kind.. I think most of the active community have been against any sort of kick option from the start.
I'm not sure if griefing is any more or less prevalent now than it was a couple of months ago. Something that hasn't changed though is the periodic mic bug where one player on a team is effectively inside their own comms bubble and can't hear anyone else's mic or be heard themselves. I've had that happen a few times to me, and been able to establish that it's happened to a crew member - in which case we make sure someone transcribes the essentials so s/he can follow what's being said. It would be very easy for a new player to fall into the comms bubble bug and not realise it was happening, s/h could then find themselves being repeatedly kicked from games for no apparent reason and be left thinking the game was played by antisocial types.
Some sort if beefed up block would be better, as I suggested up the thread.
(incidentally, the only fix for the comms bubble bug is to close down the game and restart - sometimes you may need to close down Steam and restart that as well)
We'll have to assume that any relevant bugs are going to be fixed. More pressing than that is the language barrier (and the people with fake Russian accents using it as a cover), there's people who legitimately can't understand you and there's people who pretend they can't understand you to avoid any possible moderation troubles.
Well, part of the problem with votekicking is that with a bit of social engineering you can con people into voting off anyone. I have a friend that regularly wipes out entire Gmod RP servers just by tricking people into kicking each other.
Wait, there is still people that plays gmod? xDD
However, as I said in my post, the only option you'd have is to votekick people in your crew and/or in your team.
If it's your crew, they all have to agree. You can only do that social engineering thing with newbies and kids, and I can't see an scenario where all your crew/team members are newbies AND someone wants to kick one of them because he is low-level. See what I mean?
I can't see this happening with, let's say, lvl5~8 people in your crew.
I've played gmod a lot, usually SP or in private servers because people in public servers where mostly mingebags, noobs, or just too young kids. This game it's different (or at least I hope so xD).
Well, let's take a four man ship. You're there to be an asshole, one guy is competent, and you've got two retards. You put up a votekick for the competent guy, con the retards into voting for him for as much of a bullshit reason as you can manage, rinse and repeat with one of the retards, proceed to grief the everliving shit out of the survivor. If someone new comes in, pretend it was the other guy that's causing trouble so you can "finally" votekick him, repeat as desired. If you're coming in with a buddy, you can take over any ship you want.
-
I'm opposed to vote kicking as I rarely ever need to kick somebody. I've had bad crews and fellow captains for sure, but they are never around long enough to make things difficult. And the few glaringly bad players I've had join up I've had some success teaching them how to play.
But my opinion is also heavily bias, I rarely play anything other then captain, so I don't get bad captains, I've got a patience that is longer then most trolls have the energy to wear thin, and when I do have a troll I go all harpoon squid and rock it.
No kick option, cause I loose my harpoon squid. Love that ship.
-
Well, let's take a four man ship. You're there to be an asshole, one guy is competent, and you've got two retards. You put up a votekick for the competent guy, con the retards into voting for him for as much of a bullshit reason as you can manage, rinse and repeat with one of the retards, proceed to grief the everliving shit out of the survivor. If someone new comes in, pretend it was the other guy that's causing trouble so you can "finally" votekick him, repeat as desired. If you're coming in with a buddy, you can take over any ship you want.
Hmm... Good point.
I was think in why would he do that, he looses his crew, so he plays alone. Which I suspect won't be fun for a troll. But then, they are trolls, so they don't need a reason to do that kind of stuff.
So maybe you were right and there should not be an option to vote-kick.
-
Well, let's take a four man ship. You're there to be an asshole, one guy is competent, and you've got two retards. You put up a votekick for the competent guy, con the retards into voting for him for as much of a bullshit reason as you can manage, rinse and repeat with one of the retards, proceed to grief the everliving shit out of the survivor. If someone new comes in, pretend it was the other guy that's causing trouble so you can "finally" votekick him, repeat as desired. If you're coming in with a buddy, you can take over any ship you want.
How does he take-over the ship? - the commander slot is reassigned to the newcomer that joins in that slot. If you aren't in the commander slot you can only "command" if the commander slot is occupied by an AI.
Someone prepared to involve that amount of time in trolling is definitely not playing with a full deck.
And in any case, as Captain I prefer to out-troll the troll. I just go park up in a corner of the map away from the action giving him nothing to do. Even the most ardent troll tires of that.
-
My current strategy for dealing with a troll is to switch sides, or to collude with the other team to put the troll in a bunch of unwinnable 2v1 fights. I would prefer to block a player off my ship, but I have no expectation of Muse ever implementing it. The next best thing is to find a way to make them rage quit.
-
Having a child lock on the helm would be useful, for those trolls that insist on moving the ship when it's set-up in the perfect position for sniping..
-
Well, let's take a four man ship. You're there to be an asshole, one guy is competent, and you've got two retards. You put up a votekick for the competent guy, con the retards into voting for him for as much of a bullshit reason as you can manage, rinse and repeat with one of the retards, proceed to grief the everliving shit out of the survivor. If someone new comes in, pretend it was the other guy that's causing trouble so you can "finally" votekick him, repeat as desired. If you're coming in with a buddy, you can take over any ship you want.
How does he take-over the ship? - the commander slot is reassigned to the newcomer that joins in that slot. If you aren't in the commander slot you can only "command" if the commander slot is occupied by an AI.
Someone prepared to involve that amount of time in trolling is definitely not playing with a full deck.
And in any case, as Captain I prefer to out-troll the troll. I just go park up in a corner of the map away from the action giving him nothing to do. Even the most ardent troll tires of that.
You're assuming that a griefer particularly cares about any one ship. Whether he's promoted to captain or not is just a matter of whether he gets to micspam captain chat, actually being captain doesn't mean anything when he can grief to his heart's desire until the final crewmate ragequits. If the crew doesn't fall for his antics, he can switch to another pretty quickly, it's not a huge time investment. You are right, though, that it takes MORE effort than the current situation where you can disable a ship and make people WANT to quit by just taking the biggest gun on the ship and calling it a day. If you've got captain somehow, that means it's time to ram some friendlies.
You can also get a significant number of Youtube channel views by putting up griefing videos, it's not like there aren't any other motivations beside sadistic enjoyment.
-
Speaking of child locks I don't think most of the players we refer to as trolls are actually trying to troll. In my experience they tend to be children who don't know how to cooperate and think they know everything. In many ways GOI is a "mature" game, not because it has violence and boobies, but because it requires you to think about what other people are doing and act in a way that benefits them. It is also very slow paced compared to most shooters and requires a bit more mental math to shoot accurately. All these things make the game more fun for old farts like me while difficult/annoying to the screechy <12 year old demographic that comprises most of our "troll" populous.
This is just an observation, and as we all know trying to block <12 year olds from doing something will only make them want to do it more.
Also my apologies to any <12 year old players who act responsibly and can work as part of a team. You are rare jems and I am sure will accomplish great things in the years to come.
-
But there is another situation - you playing with your friends as whole crew. One of them drop out (lots of reason, just disconnected) and you waiting for him to return shortly. But then there in your crew jumps another guy. Yes, you can ask nicely him to leave - but i often met the situation when this new guy - just don't answer and completely ignore you plea. So your whole ship must or change team or even game. And sometimes - after a couple fun matches with guys on other ship - it's really annoying. Or maybe it's just me. ^_^
-
But there is another situation - you playing with your friends as whole crew. One of them drop out (lots of reason, just disconnected) and you waiting for him to return shortly. But then there in your crew jumps another guy. Yes, you can ask nicely him to leave - but i often met the situation when this new guy - just don't answer and completely ignore you plea. So your whole ship must or change team or even game. And sometimes - after a couple fun matches with guys on other ship - it's really annoying. Or maybe it's just me. ^_^
I don't see this as a problem. You and your other 3 friends are willing to play, and that guy is trolling (maybe on purpose, or not).
In this case 1 guy can suffer an small kick from one match after being politely told to leave by chat and by mic by 3 or 4 other guys, or 4 friends suffer not playing together in a fully cooperative game specifically designed to be played with your friends.
-
But there is another situation - you playing with your friends as whole crew. One of them drop out (lots of reason, just disconnected) and you waiting for him to return shortly. But then there in your crew jumps another guy. Yes, you can ask nicely him to leave - but i often met the situation when this new guy - just don't answer and completely ignore you plea. So your whole ship must or change team or even game. And sometimes - after a couple fun matches with guys on other ship - it's really annoying. Or maybe it's just me. ^_^
This situation can only arise in the Lobby - the 3 minute timer protects in-Match disconnects, and in my experience 7/10 someone will move out to allow a friend to re-join. But it's tougher if there are no other slots in the match.
-
When I have a group of friends I want to fly with we can usually suffer one game apart then at the start of the next game we all climb onto the same ship when we rejoin the lobby. There used to be a lot of empty ships after a game ended due to a bug which seems to be fixed now. There are still rage quits and surrenders.
-
Maybe it's just me, but I rarely have problems with people trolling on my ship. If I do, as I usually captain, I too will park in one place until I get the desired result. If somebody turns out to be a super troll I'll refuse to start the next round with them still in it, and if they're intent on staying, I'll bring the whole lobby with me and leave the troll behind.
That being said, I've played this game an unmentionably large amount of hours, and have resorted to this so few times I hardly see the need for a kick. Almost every person I ever suspected of trolling turned out to either be new, not understand English or not able to hear voice chat. Kicking for any of these reasons would be cruel and really damage thfoulod natured spirit of the community. This game fosters teamwork, and people who troll will soon find no place or welcome for themselves in the community.
-
Well, maybe it's just me, but yesterday I played 3 matches and suffered in 2 of them a troll.
The first one was an engineer that was sitting in the main gun of the goldfish without shooting. I kindly asked him to leave by mic and by chat in English, Spanish, French and Catalan. I mean, at least you could think, "hey, he sat there and went AFK" but he was moving the gun always pointing to a different direction, and sometimes he changed gun.
That's not a newbie, nor someone that doesn't understands me. He was just trolling. We won anyway xD
Then he disappeared, I played a nice match an in the next round... THE RETURN! xDD
This time he chose pilot (but I already was the pilot and the commander). Asked him in the lobby to please change ship or role, in all the languages I know, by voice and by chat, and he didn't do anything at all about that. He was just doing the same, waiting in the main gun and doing nothing.
In this case he wasn't able to troll at all because I was playing with an squid in a CP map, so I didn't really need a gunner xDDD And I was with a friend and told him to go to the back gun if needed.
Nevertheless, it was annoying to not being able to do anything to kick him from my ship.
-
Achievement hunter probably .:/
Glad the post made you react (thanks for the old forum link HamsterIV).
Many opinions and stories. I hope it will help Museosaurs to come with the right system, if any.
-
Achievement hunter probably .:/
Well... then, why didn't he shot a single bullet at the enemy?
-
"Play X matchs" achievements. You don't even have to fire or repair. Just be sitting here, avoiding AFK and waiting for the end of match.
-
"Play X matchs" achievements. You don't even have to fire or repair. Just be sitting here, avoiding AFK and waiting for the end of match.
But on their own those achievements don't get you anywhere. These are usually low level (<L4) players where doing the activity achievements (buff X, shoot Y) will get you the play Z matches component without trying.
I'm not going to name and shame griefers, but one yesterday initially claimed not to speak English but then admitted to being 18 and living near Bristol (I suspect he was closer to 12 and definitely living with Mum based on other comments he was making) and it was pure "if I can't shoot I won't do anything else", probably compounded with not wanting to admit he didn't actually know how to fix anything.
-
Yeah, we're overestimating how many of these griefers aren't actually griefers. The game isn't going to be appealing to younger kids and antisocial adults in the first place, if they can't understand the social element of the game no amount of kick mechanic tweaking is going to save their experience, they simply won't like the game. They're not going to play again even if they aren't kicked because they keep losing and everyone keeps yelling at them and there's no way to call your opponents faggots during a match.
Of those who CAN enjoy the game, I'm saying more people currently have their experience tainted by griefing than those who would have been unfairly kicked given Pickle's suggestion. Griefing is going to become more and more of a problem as the population picks up, we're going to lose some of the factors that kept griefers away before as the community grows, and given the mechanics of the game we're just one good Youtube video away from a surge of copycats.
I mean, it's great that you guys apparently have twelve inch dicks that scare off griefers just by pointing it in their general direction, but for those without that social presence having an easy tool to deal with this problem themselves would be a godsend.
-
Another reason to add a kick feature or a way to block your ships to anyone except your friends:
Achievement hunters.
I don't care if you want your X achievement, I mean, try to get it if you can, you'll have all my support. It's not the first time nor the last one that I change ship or weapons to help someone get his achievement.
BUT, if you are a level 2 guy, playing in a ship with medium to high level guys that are loosing and you play as their engineer, just stop buffing the balloon...
We had our hull almost destroyed, no engines, and he was buffing the balloon. And it was not just a moment during the match, it was like 3 complete matches.
I told him to fix or get out, several times, and he kept doing that.
If you don't want to play, just don't play. I remember when I started playing that I felt that getting in a high-level match was a privilege (in fact I still do think so). Why do those guys don't profit and play with us? I needed and engineer! He was an engineer!
I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. There MUST be a solution. It's getting really annoying to play this way.
I don't care if it's a kick button or something else, but I believe that this is a big issue. Last 3 nights I played, at least in 2 matches every night I had problems with someone not playing or just ignoring everyone.
It's a cooperative game, let's help the guys that want to cooperate, and avoid people that just want's to annoy.
-
Helmic you are an absolute Jem for funny quotes.
there's no way to call your opponents faggots during a match.
Last night other team had to wait for lobby before they could do that. Something about my blender fish must have really pissed them off.
I mean, it's great that you guys apparently have twelve inch dicks that scare off griefers just by pointing it in their general direction
So that is what it takes to scare off griefers. I shall have to order those pills from Mexico I keep getting advertizements for in my email.
-
Hamster if you spell gem with a j again I swear to God I'm unzipping my pants.
Yeah, going into a game and working on achievements to the detriment of your crew is pretty rude. Most captains will outfit their ships to help their crewmates get achievements, but you have to remember there's three other people on that ship that want to win, the captain has to accommodate for three people's preferences and balance that against what he can actually fly.
As for blocking everyone except friends, that's what a private game is for. I REALLY don't support a feature to just allow friends to join your ship, that would kill the atmosphere of the community in an instant, not to mention provide a powerful griefing tool. Set yourself to only allow friends to join your crew, steal crew captain slots, never hit ready. With a group of friends you could quite possiblly shut down down most of the games available and confuse people into thinking the whole game's stopped working, tricking them into never playing again.
-
As for blocking everyone except friends, that's what a private game is for.
I don't fully support that idea, it was just something that came to my mind. However, that's not exactly that way. A private game is private for all teams and ships, while what I wanted to say is that only your ship is private.
that would kill the atmosphere of the community in an instant
That is a really good point. Most of us probably won't use it too much, but others would do.
not to mention provide a powerful griefing tool. Set yourself to only allow friends to join your crew, steal crew captain slots, never hit ready. With a group of friends you could quite possiblly shut down down most of the games available and confuse people into thinking the whole game's stopped working, tricking them into never playing again.
o.O? You do need a really great amount of friends xD You need more than just 1 ship to stop the counter if the other pilots hit ready. And if enter the game, pay for it with other friends, why would they just grief around?? To stop 2 matches you need 3 more friends, and being able to enter while there is 2 slots (in a 2vs2 match) as commander!
And AFAIK griefers troll alone, mostly because he they don't understand that this game is cooperative. If they are cooperative enough to get that many friends to grief that way, man, I take off my hat :-X .
I'm starting to think that the best option is the votekick thing.
You play with a griefer, the rest of the crew suffers him, he gets banned.
You are in another ship and the captain on the other ship just goes to the end of the world and doesn't play, you, your crew, and his crew votekick him.
As someone said before in this thread, this can be used to troll. But it's a lot more difficult to to grief: you need to convince enough people to votekick with you, while without having votekick you just need to stay still in your ship.
I do really believe that this is a nice solution, and if it doesn't work the way we expect and has some hack that we haven't thought of, devs could just disable it.
Any other ideas? Do you like/dislike my votekick solution?
-
You guys are underestimating how organized griefers can be. There's whole "teams" of griefers who do nothing but roll through Minecraft servers, younger players will organize "protests" in games like this over this or that change to mechanics or some bullshit.
As for the scenario I presented, if I were to lead that effort it'd take me... tennish people maybe?You don't need to prevent every game from starting (though if you got thirtiesh people who wanted to do this for shits and giggles it'd be very possible), you just need to make it impossible for those game to have more than a handful of people playing, just making sure that three times out of five or whatever they won't be able to join a crew, just making the number of times they'll need to try to join a game be greater than the number of times they're willing to try before giving up. If those people aren't just staying in the same games but moving around to follow those trying to make games, you can piss off a lot of people and drastically cut the number of players online.
Whether someone would WANT to do that is simply a matter of how funny the reactions would be and whether that group's disgruntled over something (which will happen as patches roll out and members of the community grow disenchanted with the game).
I forget where I read this, but someone of some importance mentioned it's very important that for every team making an online game at least one person there has to be an asshole, and his job is to think up new ways to be an asshole.
-
Wow, please use full-stops and newlines man! It's difficult to follow what you are saying with such a big wall of text.
Alright, forgetting about the "private ship" thing. Anything wrong with my votekick idea?
-
In any of these endeavors you can also easily convince people to join you, you might START with five or so people but as you piss people off a small number will want to join in on your antics. Just providing quick instructions in regional and a simple motivation (FIGHT THA POWAH is usually sufficient for most retards, anyone remember the Habbo raids?) can make something snowball. I mean, so much of Habbo griefing was (is?) simply the ability to block others' paths, they decided that their community didn't have enough griefers to justify removing it and look what happened to them, AIDS in their pools and swarms of angry Nigras.
-
Habbo is free to play, and you don't need an steam account, nor even a real email account. That's why it was so easily raided by 4chan, /b/ro. xD
-
There's that too, but you can draw from a game's own community easily as well. See - GMod. There's a couple factors that have kept GoI safe so far, but as the population picks up it's going to become more and more likely.
-
There's that too, but you can draw from a game's own community easily as well. See - GMod. There's a couple factors that have kept GoI safe so far, but as the population picks up it's going to become more and more likely.
Quoting Helmic for emphasis.
Communities with minimal to no moderation on the internet have been tried before, first in 1978 or so but the pattern - specific dynamics aside - it repeats a lot.
Basically... you start with a small core of people and it works well. Then a service gets popular and generally several times its size... trolls also emerge and with no way to filter the signal from the noise, over the next period (typically a few months to a few years) it degrades until it's just a wasteland.
Maybe the community representatives and the devs playing, maybe that's enough to keep it in check. But Helmic's right.
If you're interested in further reading, check out "A group is its own worst enemy" (just an article you can google, not a book).
-
There's that too, but you can draw from a game's own community easily as well. See - GMod. There's a couple factors that have kept GoI safe so far, but as the population picks up it's going to become more and more likely.
GMod had no way to control players. Servers had to download mods to do that, and most of them where kinda lame.
And anyway, gmod was veeeery trolleable as it's designed as a physics sandbox where anyone could do anything. It was fun when you played with friends, but not so often when open to the internet.
I think we all agree that some kind of control is necessary. Are devs taking this into account or something? In fact... do devs enter this forum? xDD
-
I think we all agree that some kind of control is necessary. Are devs taking this into account or something? In fact... do devs enter this forum? xDD
They most certainly do.... :)
-
I think we all agree that some kind of control is necessary. Are devs taking this into account or something? In fact... do devs enter this forum? xDD
They most certainly do.... :)
What Shink said. They visit this forum a lot. You'd be surprised, nake.
-
Certainly no /kick, but a /report would help. If it just sent a report to the CAs and if we are on at the same time they are it shows up and we can have a little talk, just to see if they are really trolls or just need teaching?
-
Certainly no /kick, but a /report would help. If it just sent a report to the CAs and if we are on at the same time they are it shows up and we can have a little talk, just to see if they are really trolls or just need teaching?
Ca's have no power over users in-game outside what normal users can do, which boils down to reporting. Its easy for undesireables to just bypass the filter with a big "eff you" when a CA asks them to play nice. Im hoping this changes at some point.
-
Greetings! I'm just stumbling onto all kinds of interesting discussions when I poke into the forum :D Kick is definitely requested by a number of you guys. Currently though, we're taking a very conservative approach to kick, and only limiting to AFK. We might create moderated matches in the future, where the moderators can have moderation power in those matches. But for regular matches, we are inclined not to do Kick. We of course respects everyone's opinion, but we have to weigh the risks and downsides of Kick as well as it's potential benefits, and so far, the downsides outweigh the upsides of implementing Kick, whether that's vote or captain's. Kick can not only leads to trolling and spamming, it can also break up experiences or immersion in lobby or in match. It also segments the player base in a negative way. The definition of what qualifies as Kick is also very fluid, and can easy lead to abuse of new players or as a way to settle disputes of any form. So in short, we've decided not to implement Kick at least currently for what we think is the good of the community.
What we are and want to work on, are ways to better encourage team play. For this sprint, we are building a number features that would aid new players, such as improved tutorials, proving ground (new player only matches), commendation systems for teaching and learning, and more technical pages of the manual for weapons and skills tactics. There is also surrender in match that actually doesn't count against stats, and maybe we should tell people that more, although that's a bit risky for abuse. For pre-forming crew, crew formation is almost done, but probably won't make it into this month's build, sorry about that, but that will go in as well.
For block, we could do something there. We have to think through all the logistical details and weigh the upsides and downsides of course, but we could do something there.
But at the end of the day, we'll be working on more stuff to improve team play, which is what this game is all about. And since improvements should be multifaceted, we are trying to take a multifaceted approach to this.
Thanks for listening! Best, Howard
-
Cleaned your hasty writing up a little and changed a couple of words and fixed some sentences that you crossed without backspacing what you already wrote, :P
Greetings!
I'm just stumbling onto all kinds of interesting discussions when I poke into the forum :D
Kick is definitely requested by a number of you guys. Currently though, we're taking a very conservative approach to kick, and only want to limit it to AFK. We might create moderated matches in the future, where the owners can have moderation power in those matches. But for regular matches, we are inclined not to enable Kick.
We of course respect everyones opinions, but we have to weigh the risks and downsides of a Kick function as well as it's potential benefits, and so far, the downsides outweigh the upsides; Whether that's by a vote or moderators discretion.
A Kick function not only leads to trolling and spamming, it can also break up experiences or immersion in lobby and matches. It segments the playerbase in a negative way. The definition of what qualifies as Kick is also very fluid, and can easily lead to abuse to new players or as a way to settle disputes of any form.
So in short, we've decided not to implement Kick at least currently for what we think is the good of the community.
What we are and want to work on, are ways to better encourage team play. For this sprint, we are building a number of features that would aid new players, such as improved tutorials, proving grounds (new player only matches), commendation systems for teaching and learning, and more technical pages of the manual for weapons and skills tactics.
There is also a surrender option in matches that actually don't count against stats, and maybe we should tell people about it more, although that's a bit risky for abuse. As for pre-forming crew; crew formation is almost done, but probably won't make it into this month's build. Sorry about that, but it is coming.
For block, we could do something there. We have to think through all the logistical details and weigh the upsides and downsides of course, but we could do something there.
But at the end of the day, we'll be working on more stuff to improve team play, which is what this game is all about. And since improvements should be multifaceted, we are trying to take a multifaceted approach to this.
Thanks for listening! Best, Howard.... and a little bit of Phoebe.
-
There is also surrender in match that actually doesn't count against stats, and maybe we should tell people that more, although that's a bit risky for abuse. For pre-forming crew, crew formation is almost done, but probably won't make it into this month's build, sorry about that, but that will go in as well.
Glad to hear that some steps are being taken. Even pre-crew-formation will help a lot, IMO. And... I didn't know that about the surrender button. That's a plus I guess.
But just to point out... no matter what you do, if you allow user input then some players, somewhere will abuse it. Question is... how much can other players protect themselves from the abusive ones?