Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: sparklerfish on August 27, 2014, 04:20:22 pm
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AI gunner is a useless class.
Why would a human choose to be a gunner?
Ammo types.
What ammo types does an AI use?
None. (they even run around unloading guns with special ammo and switching them back to vanilla)
There is literally no reason to have an AI gunner. AI engineers are just as capable as AI gunners of shooting. Having AI is already pretty crappy compared to a human crew, and an AI gunner is just more of a handicap since there is literally no benefit at all over an AI engineer.
If for some reason you choose to be an engineer captain (I've seen it work well on galleons sometimes) and you have more than one AI on your crew, you get stuck with TWO AI gunners, thus crippling you even further.
Since you can't choose the class of your AI and AI gunners are 100% useless, I propose making all AI into engineers, or make a single class that's just generic "AI class" (gungineer) that both shoots and repairs.
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I think this is a good idea.
At the very least, make them spawn with a wrench instead of a spanner (why would they spawn with only a spanner?).
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It's been a long time since I was a powder monkey -- is spanner the default tool for gunners? I see so, so, so many powder monkeys join matches carrying a spanner, and I always advise them on why they should have a wrench instead, and this leads me to believe that for some reason spanner is the default tool you get in your loadout when you start playing. The only time a gunner might conceivably have a spanner is if they're doing those darn rebuild/repair guns with spanner achievements (which basically promote playing the game ineffectively and are some of the lamest achieves).
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It's been a long time since I was a powder monkey -- is spanner the default tool for gunners? I see so, so, so many powder monkeys join matches carrying a spanner, and I always advise them on why they should have a wrench instead, and this leads me to believe that for some reason spanner is the default tool you get in your loadout when you start playing. The only time a gunner might conceivably have a spanner is if they're doing those darn rebuild/repair guns with spanner achievements (which basically promote playing the game ineffectively and are some of the lamest achieves).
Yeah, spanner is the default. It's really awful.
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I ask people to be gunner on ship builds that really don't need a gunner so it forces the AI into the engineering slot. I suspect the Engineer AI and Gunner AI have different behavior patterns. In F1 mode (as you were) engineer AI will only shoot if nothing is damaged and gunners will only repair if they don't have gun arcs on target.
I would like to have a Gungineer AI that plays as an engineer with three engie tools but acts as a gunner if you are crewing an all AI ship.
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100% agree with everything said above. A lot of times I find myself going out of my way to avoid having the AI gunner by having a human be a gunner when it would be more beneficial to have a buff engineer or something like that.
My other complaint with the AI gunners is the way they sit there running back and forth between guns and never wind up shooting something. This is most annoying on squids, where I've found myself way too many times getting a perfect drop on an enemy with perfect bifectas, but there's no one to shooting even though no damage is being taken.
Easy solution: No more AI gunners.
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I remember making the same point in my Nerf the Gunner (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3796.0.html) thread, but I like your proposed solution a lot more xD
Definitely a good idea. There's absolutely no need for AI gunners in their current state.
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Kill the AI gunner!
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Even I, agree with this...
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I agree. HOWEVER, the AI does load ammo, i've seen em load heavy clip into the gatling gun.
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I agree. HOWEVER, the AI does load ammo, i've seen em load heavy clip into the gatling gun.
pics or it didn't happen
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I agree. HOWEVER, the AI does load ammo, i've seen em load heavy clip into the gatling gun.
pics or it didn't happen
^ yup. I've only ever seen them unload ammo.
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THe only ammo I have ever seen AI gunners load is heavy ammo. An AI engi could do that. I also agree to remove AI gunners. There should be a way to micromanage your AI as well. F1-F3 control 1st AI, F4-F6 control 2nd AI, and F7-F9 control 3rd AI. That way, you can finally put 2 people on guns and 1 on repair easily.
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THe only ammo I have ever seen AI gunners load is heavy ammo. An AI engi could do that. I also agree to remove AI gunners. There should be a way to micromanage your AI as well. F1-F3 control 1st AI, F4-F6 control 2nd AI, and F7-F9 control 3rd AI. That way, you can finally put 2 people on guns and 1 on repair easily.
If there were a way to integrate V-commands into this, that would be the best thing ever. Being able to tell AI 1 to "Repair the hull!" and AI 2 to "Man the fore guns!" (or whatever) would be so clutch.
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If for some reason you choose to be an engineer captain (I've seen it work well on galleons sometimes) and you have more than one AI on your crew, you get stuck with TWO AI gunners, thus crippling you even further.
This. So much this. The situation I find myself in mostly is putting a misplaced amount of faith in relatively green captain. They die once then rage quit.
What happens next? You now have 2x Engi's, 1x Gunner and 1x AI gunner - you are forced to make a trade-off of having an AI gunner perform repairs / alternating shooting and gunning or just setting it to gun and having your human gunner fly, negating the option of having ammos.
Be gone with them! :P
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I agree. HOWEVER, the AI does load ammo, i've seen em load heavy clip into the gatling gun.
pics or it didn't happen
No I've seen it too. Thought it was weird when I first saw it but sure enough. Think its some rare bug. Haven't seen it for a long time and it wouldn't happen consistently. My guess would be the AI pathing isn't that much different than that for engineers. Remember AI engineers can change between spanner, mallet, extinguish. What would be stopping a gunner from doing the same thing other than maybe there is no instructions for it? It wouldn't surprise me if at times the AI has a brain fart and decides to change ammo.
Think about it, why does the AI unload guns when it gets on them? It is changing ammo. Now it didn't used to do this. Used to see AI jumping on guns and using them with whatever ammo was preloaded. Then it would reload with standard when the clip would be up. My guess is, Muse has been tweaking a little. Remember they did state there would be an AI director that would be required for COOP + Adventure mode. AI being smart with ammo would be a step towards that I'd imagine.
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I can agree that AI gunners are pretty useless but let's not be crazy about AI's and AI control. Obviously this game is meant to play with people so although I kinda agree it would be nice to have some AI control/customization - this is probably one of the lowest priorities right now.
If there were a way to integrate V-commands into this, that would be the best thing ever.
Devs are working on V-command revamp so maybe something will happen.
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Just make AI gunners have all the ammos, and use whatever was put in the gun by a human last, and I will be happy.
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After some testing, it seems that AI will load special ammos.... but only two kinds in only a few guns.
Heavy Flak, Heavy Carro, Lumberjack: Charged rounds.
Gatling: Heavy clip.
Everything else: Nada.
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I only see the heavy clip in the gatling by the AIs once in a blue moon.
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I'm not sure if this is true anymore, but a while back there was a tournament where it was just a pilot and three AI on each side. Squash, the winner, had this to say about the AI's ammo type behavior:
Good question, what I realised halfway through the tournament is AI have ammo types just like human crew, AI engineers seem to have burst, and AI gunners have 3, I can't remember which but I know one of them is heavy. But they'll only use that ammo if you preload it for them, so the key was loading heavy clip on the gattling and keeping the gunner on it.
I think this may have been before the changes to reloading, so it's probably changed since then.