Golden Playoffs[f] - The top 33% of teams in each division, rounded up[g], is advanced to the Golden Playoffs.
QuoteGolden Playoffs[f] - The top 33% of teams in each division, rounded up[g], is advanced to the Golden Playoffs.
I suggest to set a minimal amount of four teams in golden playoff . 4 teams are way better to rotate to make matches less predictable.
I like this. After sky league I will be stepping down as a constant competitive captain so I would love to work on the administrative side of this.Each match will need a ref to check loadouts at match start and answer any questions anyone has about the rules. The ref will need to keep track of times with server, flex, and pause times playing an important role in handling connection issues.
I don't know if this was covered and I'm just stupid, but what happens if a team that doesn't have any back-ups (only 8 players in the team overall) and one of their players disconnects during a game and can't reconnect? Would the team automatically lose or would they be able to carry on with an AI? (worst case scenario; I don't think anybody would want to do that)
Same problem would occur if let's say the Steam servers are down, but the team does have substitutes. Players already in the game aren't affected by that, but nobody can connect to the game as long as Steam is not online.
I'm pretty impressed with this! A tournament like this can't have enough rules and guidelines and you put a lot of thought and work into this. ♥
Great work on this Redria.Thanks. Help me riddle out a non-judgement-call rule on when to enact pauses. :P
Such a tournament could turn into the main event of guns.
Something i was looking for since the last season of cogs finished.
If you need any help ill happily do what i can.
Ah damn my memory ...Good point, but as far as I know the slow connects usually don't come up outside of CP maps where moving first gives you an advantage. My tendency would be to make the ruling that when the ref connects they announce "go" and start the timer. The "go" gives teams an indication of the match timer and no advantage should be had by that period of connection. If it became clear that someone wasn't connecting at all pause time could be enabled.
One thing i wanted to bring up. Keep in mind that sometimes some players get delayed connects at matchstart.
So you either have to pause till everyone is fully loaded in which would make it hard to control if noone really starts an action (preloading, movement (due to wind) etc) or just dont hard force those rules at matchstart.
Yeah mid engage DCs are hard to call.I think you mixed up first and second solution? Pauses only start when there are no spots down being the more viable solution, pushing the DC team to either carry on anyway, or to organize a retreat. This could be abused somewhat by the non-DC team, but seems like a more consistent rule with less actively intentional abuse potential.
You either have to make those calls by a referee and then count them towards the team with the dc or just state that there are no midengage pauses.
Second solution gives a disadvantage to the team with the dc. First rule is hard to enforce and can give a team that just got ambushed an advantage.
I would go with the second one cause you could easily abuse the other rule by dcing on purpose.
There is just no good solution. Even an ingame pause feature can give the team that got ambushed an advantage by letting them calm down and analyzing the situation.
But one thing i would think of ...Hmm.. Move to an 8 week regular season, with a 3 week post-season? Everyone is guaranteed one bye week during the middle 4 weeks (weeks 3-6) of regular season play. The first week of the post-season is a bye week as well, with no matches taking place.
Especially for such a big tournament. Give the teams a break for one week or so.
Best way would be to split the games of each divison on different weekends. Maybe 2 divisions (based on division number) per week/weekend. That way everyone gets a pause and doesnt have to show up every week cause those weekly events where you always have to show up can make it really hard for teams/clans and even more for the smaller ones to be able to compete on a regular basis.
And one thing i would think of aswell ...This seems similar to my 12 members to a team + 4 soft members. The 4 soft members constitute the backups.
While its great to have people tied to a team and not have cross team substitutes every week or even more extreme every game it makes it really hard to find substitutes.
Maybe allow a listed substitute pool for every team where they can get a sub for one game. Limit that pool to a certain number (10-12 players or sth like that). Allow only one or two subs per team/boat. And dont allow them to sub for multiple teams on one week/weekend and then everyone has a chance even with a small ammount of players to play on a quite regular basis.
Nope sadly those slow connects arent unique for CP.I more mean it doesn't matter much outside of CP. I know it happens, but I don't know of it negatively affecting anyone. I'm not sure that there is anything to do about it except say that the timer starts when the ref says go and you can move/do things as soon as your character will move in-game. This should not impact the outcome of matches.
I know one player in the gents that had those slow connects in alot of our matches.
And personally i just dont like tieing it onto spotting. Thats a game mechanic thats sometimes sacrificed for faster fire. And due to the strange behaviour of clouds which can lead to the inability to spot this can be kinda unfair. I understand what you intended to do with it. I just think spotting isnt consistent enough to base it upon this.This is fair. I will have to think more on this. It isn't a pretty thing. Has a disconnect happened mid-engage in any events previously? Do you just play until an engagement ends?
Just a few thoughts:I think the bye week is probably a good call. At worst it doesn't even really hurt anything. I think I'll write it into the rules.
I think giving every team a by week would help ease battle fatigue as well.
Also I am a strong advocate for more lenient substitution rules. I don't think I ever made it through a cogs season with as few as 4 substitutes.
I don't really see the need for this to be called an "Official Competitive League". I think eventually we will have multiple stable, large events and I don't see that there's any reason for any of them to claim or imply precedence over one another. If Muse intend to run the league that would be different, but if that's the case I personally would prefer that they designed that themselves and with the intention of maximally utilising their ability to integrate competitive features in game.
Otherwise I could totally get behind another event, good luck!Sneaked in an edit. :P
I understand that the Sky League was supposed to be the premier Cogs-replacement event. I was quite surprised by the tournament structure, but before the lack of casters necessitated the switch from double to single elimination it had a structure that would have created a bit of a Cogs-like longrunning campaign.Ehhhhhhh in my opinion even on double elimination it is still just a tournament. Which is when I first wrote up the first draft of rules for this. I don't like the idea that the premiere event allows teams to be eliminated so quickly. It is excellent to have a serious tournament like Sky League, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it replaces Cogs.
Talking of which, what are you plans with regards to casting? That seems to be the main bottleneck in organisation of a lot of events.
and yeah, sneaky edits. It's a habit. ^^
Once rules are ironed out, I presume Muse or the 3rd party would work to collect enough casters to support the event. Although anyone with a stream and casting experience could chime in at any point here and I will make a list... 8)I wouldn't count on Muse folks stepping in too much. They've got a lot on their plates, and while I'm sure Keyvias is totally willing to help out with some stuff, I highly doubt they have the time or energy to focus on developing a league/caster scene.
@ Alistair... A lot to think over there. I'll see what ideas I can come up with.2. looks reasonable. In general I prefer less substitution rules over too many - I can't recall an incident where a lax subsitution rule has been used in an abusive manner. I prefer heavily substituted teams with switching faces over now shows.Just a few thoughts:The substitution rules are probably always going to be a point of contention. Current thoughts:
I think giving every team a by week would help ease battle fatigue as well.
Also I am a strong advocate for more lenient substitution rules. I don't think I ever made it through a cogs season with as few as 4 substitutes.
1. Current system where you have 8 substitutes available.
2. Allow players to substitute freely, but not on different teams in 1 week. -> Teams can only substitute a maximum of 3 players each week
3. Lock players to a team they substitute for, but allow that pool to be as large as needed (or at least much larger than 8)
Casting shouldn't be too hard. I'm sure a lot of volunteers would show up if you just ask (and usually if you don't ask as well).If calls for Sky League casters/streamers/refs is of any indication, no, no they don't.
Well I was just basing it upon Muse's current competitive scene, which allows for teams to join in or drop out whenever they see fit. I really like this concept, as it allows for a newly formed clan/team to get straight into the action instead of needing to wait however many months for the next season to start. With the League play, it also lets them gain some experience in the competitive scene in guaranteed matches without them being kicked out almost immediately as would happen with a tournament.Perhaps we could allow late joins until all divisions were maxed out?
My suggestion would be to allow new teams to join, but taking at least a week before putting them into the rotation (ie: If they sign up on Tuesday, you don't stick them into the rotation until the following weekend (not the upcoming one)) . They can only join during the Regular Season, and all the matches they would have missed count as losses. This lets them compete, and even join in the Post-Season. They cannot mid-join during the post season, but assuming this is a continual thing, it won't be that long of a wait until the start of the next season. There could also be a provision to lock them out of the Golden Playoffs if they would have qualified, since they signed up late (although I don't really see a need for it).
Ah, I suppose I've been skimming over the division part, which brings up some questions.This was something I wanted to look at but wasn't totally comfortable with. I suppose what I want is for like, 3-5 random generations, with the host looking at them and making a judgement call on what looks the most balanced. By no means should a host move teams around to satisfy their own whims, but it makes it generally better if the divisions are balanced.
I see that they're randomly generated, but what's considered 'reasonably balanced'?
It reminds me of the Sky League Groups, which were randomly put together. Should each division be made of teams around the same ranking? (ie: great teams all in one division, good teams in another, new teams in a third, etc) Or should the very experienced teams be spread around evenly?
hey redria, I was told to go through your idea.Thanks Skrim. I replied to each of your notes, and I will be going through and making adjustments today. If you want to look at my replies we can continue talking, or if you just want to wait and read through my change log and see what you think we can do that.
So i opened up the document and made some comments under the user René B.
I couldnt be bothered to go through the 3 walls of text in this thread to see if some of my points have been answered already and what not. I might also have missed some points here and there.
next thing I would like to see is the updated document with changes that you have made, and I will read it again.
hey redria, I was told to go through your idea.Thanks Skrim. I replied to each of your notes, and I will be going through and making adjustments today. If you want to look at my replies we can continue talking, or if you just want to wait and read through my change log and see what you think we can do that.
So i opened up the document and made some comments under the user René B.
I couldnt be bothered to go through the 3 walls of text in this thread to see if some of my points have been answered already and what not. I might also have missed some points here and there.
next thing I would like to see is the updated document with changes that you have made, and I will read it again.
you dont need to reply or defend your system. Im just giving you my feedback, if im the only one who is saying this as opposed to others saying im wrong, then maybe im wrong :pAh, but I do need to reply. :)
Honestly, I prefer less random. I am much more in favour of allowing a team to prep for a map.. I do think, however, that some randomness.. maybe in situations of tie breaks. I also like best of 3 but I understand the constraint with casting. Maybe a mix, Bo1 for divisions then for the champisonship, Bo3 then the finals being Bo5.Teams will know their maps, opponents, and times for the entire regular season from day 1. When I say that the schedule will be released by the Wednesday prior to the first day of matches, I mean a complete regular season schedule.
Things is, 'minor mistakes' aren't always the players' faults- sometimes there's a weird lag spike, or someone's computer crashes, and we don't get fair game.Basically what happened in the first Gents vs Overwatch match yesterday *cough*
@FluffyHetsche Speaking of which, amazing hwacha gunnery yesterday :)
Things is, 'minor mistakes' aren't always the players' faults- sometimes there's a weird lag spike, or someone's computer crashes, and we don't get fair game.But on the flip side, it is only odds that say that a game won't be turned by computer faults for every game of the match. Is it likely? Of course not. But the only way to eliminate that from effect would be to play an infinite number of games, to determine who is statistically better.
Now how would the server time scenario work if slow-mo initiates and the game mode is Crazy king? would you adjust the progression of time by altering it based upon the factor of how much the time slows down? (i.e the sudden death, etc?)*Goes to sarcastically quote self from original post mentioning that the league will be operating on 2v2 deathmatch only*
...I feel that most of the rules could be slightly added on to to allow for regulation of 3v3 and maybe 4v4 DM (though probably 3v3 would be more likely to happen)For sure. And I think the scene could really use a 3v3 or 4v4 deathmatch event. It's not something I have ever felt a strong desire for though, so I haven't pursued that at all. If someone wants to copy this ruleset and arrange some sort of 3v3+ DM event, I would be more than happy to let them use the rules and/or help them develop it. The rules should transfer pretty easily with some tweaks and tests to figure out appropriate timings and such.
Expect to see something in the next 2 weeks.I'm teased.
At the moment (and this is of course tentative) I believe that Sammy, Puppy, and myself will probably set up and run this (but that could change!). I plan to set up a meeting between the 3 of us to go line by line through the rules and knock it into shape, then discuss casters, streamers, graphics, names, etc. There is likely to be a few weeks of lag time after Sky League ends, but this will be happening one way or another. If anyone has any questions/comments, post here or message me. Expect to see something in the next 2 weeks.I think an open, community approach to developing rules & planning this event is better than taking things behind closed doors. Your trio won't alone have every good idea or raise every concern. Even the Sky League had issues with people being uncomfortable with the rules and Urz at least went to some lengths to involve representation from clans in the closed planning stage. Nevertheless it's yours to organise how you see fit, ultimately I will decide whether to involve my team based on the final product rather than the process and people who got it there.
Both teams should be in lobby with readies checked at the assigned timeI don't like this. heavily encourages the style of running "one size fits all" builds and limiting tactical variety to avoid having to do any planning in the lobby. Counter/situational strategies will get yet riskier and therefore less popular because if your opponent runs a build other than what you'd expected you won't have time to rethink your strategy before the time runs out.
Teams are allowed 2 minutes of flex time to make emergency adjustments
If a team fails to ready up prior to the end of the 2 minutes flex, they forfeit the match
I think an open, community approach to developing rules & planning this event is better than taking things behind closed doors. Your trio won't alone have every good idea or raise every concern. Even the Sky League had issues with people being uncomfortable with the rules and Urz at least went to some lengths to involve representation from clans in the closed planning stage. Nevertheless it's yours to organise how you see fit, ultimately I will decide whether to involve my team based on the final product rather than the process and people who got it there.Doesn't really work. There's never going to be a complete agreement between everyone, at some point whoever is making rules has to put their foot down and say this is how it's going to be. Otherwise folks will just run circles around each other forever.
Long lobbies are just another facet of the deep strategic experience of Icarus - it's nice if they don't happen too often but there's some things that shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of speed and convenience.Actually, in terms of competitive play, yes, long lobbies happen all the goddamn time. While I'd like to think that's all taken up by strategy sessions, too often I've seen it be just like two people chattering endlessly, or someone going to let their dogs out, or taking a poop, or getting something to drink, etc...